Cincinnati Campus Cop Kills Unarmed Black Man

a reply to: Bedlam

Nobody ever said, and there has been no description of exactly when, he fired the shot. He could have been standing next to the vehicle window at the time. The fact is we do not know yet....so making a wild statement of him "blazing away" is irresponsible IMO.

originally posted by: Bedlam
Is it standard procedure to shoot someone to death who's driving away from a traffic stop without permission?

I'm not saying he ought not be arrested and charged with flight, DUI and so on, but damn, whupping out the sidearm and blazing away seems a bit of a total overreaction, excessive force, and a needless threat to anyone in the background.

of course....you can be shot dead just for disobeying a LEO....tussling and driving away is a sure fire death sentence

originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: Bedlam

Nobody ever said, and there has been no description of exactly when, he fired the shot. He could have been standing next to the vehicle window at the time. The fact is we do not know yet....so making a wild statement of him "blazing away" is irresponsible IMO.

If he fired it before the vehicle was moving, it sort of obviates the 'deadly weapon' claim, though.

The statement's not wild. It's standard cop procedure to empty the mag these days. Again, if he only shot once, even at PBR, and got him in the head with one shot and stopped, I'll buy you a virtual coke. My bet's on him emptying the magazine and no one mentioning where the misses went in the report.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

You put the wrong emphasis on the wrong syllable:

2923.162 Discharge of firearm on or near prohibited premises.

(A) No person shall do any of the following:

(1) Without permission from the proper officials...

You do understand that law enforcement has the authority to fire their weapon--if necessary--anywhere within their jurisdiction, right?

The question that must wait for further evidence is, was the discharge of the firearm necessary, or perceived to be necessary by the LEO when all facts of the interaction are taken into account?

Actually you don't seem to understand legislation structure...

If "without permission of the proper officials" also pertained to sections 2 & 3 it would have been part of the subheading A.

What you highlighted has nothing to do with A2 & A3.

a reply to: Bedlam

Not to mention that it defies the laws of physics for a stationary or even slow moving vehicle to "roll for a block"...

But even the laws of physics are not beyond a corrupt department.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Even downhill?
Just a thought.

originally posted by: MoreBeer

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
Not only is 13 kids a bewildering number -

As for Dubose, he has been arrested 75 times in the last 20 years, the Cincinnati Enquirer reported.

I don't think Otis on Andy Griffith could beat that record.
How was this guy not in jail where at least he wouldn't get shot?
I can't get past 13 and 75 to wonder anything else about the story.
smh

This is the kind of person some really want to defend in this thread?

WTF?

A criminal acting like a criminal gets treated like a criminal and dies because of his own criminal choices.

Good riddance.

I can't believe someone would say the above!

No matter what crimes a person has committed, it is not up to one law enforcement officer to decide that the man deserves to die. He did not deserve to die for driving away from the officer. Sure, he deserved to be arrested. Maybe all of his prior offenses were traffic related or non-violent. Does that mean this criminal should die? Of course not!

If an officer or others were truly in immediate danger of death, then it would make sense.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Re-read the links--they are fully trained and certified by the state a law enforcement officers, the same as city police.

Yeah, I know in my haste in reading the links, I didn't catch that.

originally posted by: real_one
a reply to: Answer

Another murder of an unarmed man by the police.

Another thread where people are cheering his death.

Shame...

**walks away from this back slapping session**

I'm sorry, did I cheer his death?

I must have missed where I did that...

Are you people really getting butthurt over me calling this guy a scumbag?

He was arrested A RIDICULOUS NUMBER OF TIMES over the last 20 years for a variety of reasons, including domestic violence and assault.

He is a scumbag. Plain and simple. Does that mean he deserved to be shot? I don't know. I guess the videos will tell that story.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

There's no angry riots...yet. Cincy learned a lot and grew a lot from the 2001 riots. And I'm in a position to know...

This whole story stinks though! I know the area very well where he was pulled over. If a UC cop tried to stop me? I'd probably keep going. Not sure the "general public" knew that they had such powers, to pull over non-UC students/drivers TOTALLY OFF CAMPUS.

Especially for not having a front license plate!! Plus, the local news media almost makes it sound like the victim was drinking since they keep reporting that he handed the LEO a "bottle of alcohol" instead of his license.

BUT the LEO's side of the story isn't even out there yet since they're giving him "24-48 hours" to submit his statement. That's policy, btw. When did this happen again?

I'm glad Deters is getting ahead of it by investigating along with the Cincy PD. This LEO was a University of Cincinnati "policeman". I honestly thought they were like security guards, in all honesty. Has no idea they were actual police.

Those are some GREAT cops (Cincinnati PD) and are some stand up guys and gals. I've never had an issue with them, nor has anyone I know. They put up with a lot down there, believe that. The Queen City is quite violent, truth be told. It beautiful on the riverfront but go north a few blocks, that's a different story.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
And we rush to judge yet again, despite it being made clear in the OP, and in the press conference, there's not one but two videos of the incident that haven't been released yet. So far no indication that they won't release them, just that they're holding off on it. Already on record saying there's two videos, so it'll be kinda hard at this point to say something happened to the videos and have it stick.

Not that those will exonerate either the officer or deceased, depending on which side of the aisle one sits on. And those waiting on the not one but two videos will catch flak for not picking a side fast enough.

Simply amazing.

Do you recall the shooting of John Crawford?

Even damning videos don't necessarily bring about justice.

originally posted by: RoScoLaz4
driving away from a cop is not attempting to harm said cop. ergo cop was in no danger. ergo it's murder. again.

" “Officer Tensing…asked Mr. Dubose multiple times to provide a license,” university police chief Jason Goodrich said at a press conference. “He produced a bottle of alcohol inside the car … but was unable to provide a driver’s license.”

Authorities say a struggle ensued when Dubose refused to exit the vehicle." - so i guess the 'authorities' don't need to 'wait for all the facts' before their own 'speculation'

Why didn't this UC cop call a Cincinnati LEO?? He was pulled over off campus. They have said the UC cops patrol the areas around the campus and have jurisdiction, but to stop someone over not having that (STUPID Ohio BS) front license plate?? Come on.

Some people's comments in this thread are disgusting. Doesn't matter how many kids he had, arrests in his past, etc. The man was killed over something (probably) trivial.

By the way, the officer fell after he discharged his weapon. From what I understand, he shot the guy in the head but I guess the kick knocked him down and tore his uniform. If this is the case? Dude shouldn't be firing a gun and he needs more practice. My 110 pound daughter can shoot all sorts of guns without falling over.

Here's a map/pic from my phone. The red pin is where Mr. Dubose was killed.



He was way off campus when pulled over...By at least a mile. If it was me? No WAY would I stop for a UC cop all the way over there!! There's no UC housing, etc. in that area, either. Weird...

Also I wish the mods would add University of Cincinnati to the thread title. Just so readers/posters are aware it wasn't a Cincinnati PD cop.

S&F to the OP for posting this topic, btw. I was going to, but you beat me to it!

a reply to: Greven

What does that have to do with the propensity for immediately warping to "he deserved it" and "die pigs die" rhetoric when so little is known at this stage yet multiple videos exist and will likely be released?

I offered no commentary as to what the legal system will or won't do with said videos.

a reply to: Shamrock6
What does it even matter whether we do or do not jump to a conclusion?

Waiting or not waiting impacts few and changes nothing.

Videos exist, but they did not secure any justice for Crawford. He ain't alone in that regard, either.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

No hate in this thread? LOL

When did calling a cop a "pig" become a term of endearment?

a reply to: Greven

It doesn't matter. Nor does my comment matter, so it's curious that you're getting so spun up about it.

Still haven't offered any commentary as to what the video will show and who it will show to be in the right, so you can direct those comments elsewhere.

originally posted by: Krakatoa

[
I would argue that a combative suspect that is about to drive under the influence of alcohol, with no regard for a person's safety next to the vehicle, does in deed pose a threat to him as well as anyone else he may encounter in a drunken escape in a motor vehicle on a public road.

You don't think that is a bit of wild speculation to assume the guy was driving under the influence? I've got a bottle in my car any time I go to the liquor store. Doesn't mean the bottle is open or that I've been drinking from it or any other bottle for that matter. In fact, the only person who put any bystanders in harms way was the officer who shot the driver which resulted in the car continuing for an entire city block before it eventually stopped.

Did he have to shoot him in the head? I dunno, I was not there...and in that scenario a split second decision was made to do that. I do believe that had the suspect escaped, drove down that road and hit and injured or killed someone, folks would be shouting for an investigation why he did NOT stop him when he fled.

The only potential injuries to anyone was as a result of the officer who fired when the car continued to move for an entire block. You don't think that put anyone in harms way?
Put yourself in that position to make that life and death decision in about 2 seconds...go....time's up. Will you be responsible if the suspect killed someone else in his road escape?

In this scenario, any alcohol related offense is pure, unadulterated speculation that wasn't even hinted at in any of the reports thus far. The only entities to be held responsible in this instance would be the University as it was their officer who placed others in harms way when firing the shot that resulted in the car moving uncontrollably. To be fair, I'm not saying in any way that the deceased played no role in this or holds no culpability. I'm just mind f#'d over the fact that the mantra of this thread is "don't jump to conclusions without all the facts or the video" and here you are repeating the same story about a drunk driver with no facts to support the scenario.

originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: Bedlam

Nobody ever said, and there has been no description of exactly when, he fired the shot. He could have been standing next to the vehicle window at the time. The fact is we do not know yet....so making a wild statement of him "blazing away" is irresponsible IMO.

Actually, Bedlam is correct. Multiple LOCAL media reports are stating the man was driving away when shot in the head.

Again, this took place a mile or more AWAY from UC campus proper. I know where this is and there's no UC buildings/housing on that road. In fact, he was stopped several blocks away from even the restaurants, etc. that they've recently built in the area. That area has undergone a lot of rehabbing in the last few years but the streets are still the same.

He was shot off of Vine Street, at the corner of Valencia and Rice, which is several blocks south of Calhoun and McMillian Streets. Calhoun goes one way (west) and and McMillian goes the other way (east). The very south edge of UC's campus runs along Calhoun St.

This guy wasn't anywhere near there. I posted a photo a page or so back. The red pin shows where he was shot. If I can get time, I'll even drive down there from UC's campus to where he was shot and record the drive. He was shot on a residential street that, IMHO, has nothing to do with UC's campus and isn't anywhere near their facilities.

The man shouldn't have even been stopped for not having a FRONT license plate that FAR from campus in the first place, IMHO.

originally posted by: Krakatoa

Officers cannot resort to deadly force unless they “have probable cause . . . to believe that the suspect has committed a felony and poses a threat to the safety of the officers or a danger to the community if left at large.”

I would argue that a combative suspect that is about to drive under the influence of alcohol, with no regard for a person's safety next to the vehicle, does in deed pose a threat to him as well as anyone else he may encounter in a drunken escape in a motor vehicle on a public road.

Did he have to shoot him in the head? I dunno, I was not there...and in that scenario a split second decision was made to do that. I do believe that had the suspect escaped, drove down that road and hit and injured or killed someone, folks would be shouting for an investigation why he did NOT stop him when he fled.

Put yourself in that position to make that life and death decision in about 2 seconds...go....time's up. Will you be responsible if the suspect killed someone else in his road escape?

Honestly, you're clearly adding your opinion or what you think may have happened to the story.

No where has it been reported that the man was drunk/driving impaired.

No where has it been proven that he was combative. There are reports of a possible "struggle" for the door handle.

We don't know what would've happened because the victim was shot in the head. So to speculate on what he may have done is not adding to the facts of the story and what actually happened.

Again, if a UC cop tried to pull me over in that location? I'd drive away too while calling the Cincy PD. He wasn't near the campus when he was stopped!!

I just asked my daughter who's stayed down there a lot with friends and she's never seen a UC cop south of McMillian. Unless they were turning around and going back north, toward the campus. I've never seen them that far south either and I'm down there all the time.

Sometimes they go east on McMillian and back up Vine St or up to Reading Rd. or even down to Burnet Ave to cruise thru UC hospital campus. But not as far south as where he was stopped and rimately shot.

See the above map (red pin is where he was shot). How they have jurisdiction in that area is beyond me. And news to me, my daughter, and a LOT of other ppl I've talked to who know the area.