Members, don't scuttle your own boat!

a reply to: Asktheanimals

This type of behavior is indicative of the society we live in, especially when it comes to anonymous actions without faces. Case in point, when we are driving down the road every day we just see vehicles that are in our way, instead of the people that are actually driving them and have other people inside with them. I am particularly incensed by those that fail to understand each and every one of those vehicles is carrying someone around that has a family.

Innocent children and older people without the same capabilities are in those vehicles. Pets are in those vehicles. Someones mother or father or sister or brother. We live in a self absorbed society that is so selfish it very rarely sees people in those vehicles.

The same can be said of the Internet, not just ATS, anonymous behavior is easy to justify by the very fact that there is no emotional attachment necessary to pop your mouth off at people you do not care about or will ever know in person. Banning people does not fix this. They will just find another venue to do whatever it is makes them feel more superior and give their false egos a boost.

You can't fix a broken society. It has to be demolished and from the ashes comes another opportunity to do it again. Sadly, this is the way our human species works. Each and every civilization has found this out from the beginning of time.

a reply to: Silcone Synapse

Yes I miss the ignore as well. I have to say though that the ATS staff are reasonable people over all. I had an unfortunate instance where I finally got to the point where I didn't care about the repercussions and said things that I knew I shouldn't be saying. I would suggest to any of those many, many long time members that seem to drop like flies the last 6 months that you should give it a year or two and see what happens if you are persuasive and sincere and are willing to walk the walk.

a reply to: soulpowertothendegree

You touch on an important issue in your post concerning anonymity; there are times I too wonder if society isn't broken. The kind of anonymous posting and the things we say while using it are a very new phenomenon in human interaction. Maybe we've been like kids in a candy store for the first time and went overboard. It takes time to adjust to such new ways of communicating and as time goes on perhaps people at large will become more and more like they are on ATS - respectful and considerate of others opinions and feelings.

We all know nothings perfect but I think we do far better here than anywhere else I can find on the internet. We're here taking steps to fix that broken method of communication and make sure the human element is well represented. What an awesome opportunity we have here to find answers to important questions and to open lines of communication world wide that have never before been available.

People anywhere on the planet can speak together the same as we could over a nice meal with pleasant company. We can spread knowledge, break down barriers, find answers collectively and bring people to the table who otherwise would have remained isolated. I know were on the right track with what we do here and it gives me hope that people can get together and fix anything we may have broken.

Two major events in 2014 along with a bunch of sub-issues have triggered a landslide of broken hearts.

2014 saw the Hobby Lobby decision and a major Democrat defeat.

Many people are so uncertain of the future and of course, the MSM (news, TV shows, radio programs, etc.) has people flipped and freaked out. The entire MSM is around 90+% politically lopsided.

I noticed a major shift in ATS last year that is continuing now.

Not easy to handle the hysteria.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
a reply to: Darkblade71

Sometimes the best way for me to remind myself of something important is to write it out.
I've found myself riding the line too close lately on certain subjects near and dear to my heart.
Winning an argument at the cost of hurting others is never worth it.

Ditto. Easy to forget, but priceless to remember.
Thanks for the reminder.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: nonspecific

I have seen many instances of a member making a thread only to be attacked by a select few over statements made in other threads, this would wind me up no end.

But that's my point, why allow some other schmuck to 'wind you up to no end' ?

They're not worth it, they're being childish and incessant, and they don't put the food in your mouth and the roof over your head.

Why on earth would you lower yourself to their level ? Call their attitude out with your next post in an adult mature manner and then walk away from it, no matter what their following response to yours is after that.

Good point. My son used to say, "Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. " Of course, it's also kind of unfair to enter into a battle of wits with unarmed trolls ;-) Finally, arguing on the internet is like running a race in the special Olympics, even if you win you're still retarded. I can't remember who said that one.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: Asktheanimals

While ATS may be one of the better sites at enforcement, the ability for those to be anonymous still remains. The behavior you want to regulate is akin to putting a band aid on the dike and hoping it will hold. It is a commendable effort and I applaud ATS and the MODS for doing their part.

Sure, there are members that get it, they are the ones that give us hope, they do their part to uphold civility and yet they too are still anonymous and fallible, as I am, too. At some point, those that you deem are worthy,and want to protect them from as you put it, "blowing their top" and getting themselves banned from this site find it necessary to just throw all caution to the wind and say to hell with it.

They know the satisfaction of getting it off their chest is fleeting, but they don't care, because it is anonymous and if they really want to start a new screen name, here or anywhere for that matter, all they have to do is create one. There is very little incentive for those type of people, they simply just do not care.

Sure they will toe the line for a time and try not to draw unnecessary attention, but ultimately they will just flame out too.

Just be thankful for the members that do care and do not waste your time on those that are not worth the time and effort, if they are not capable of understanding or do not care and continue down the path of resistance then they get what they deserve.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
Who was banned? Or am I gonna get banned for asking?

Very good question!
That is an issue that members are not allowed to discuss.
If they are gone, they're gone.
Talking about them serves no useful purpose and they aren't around to defend their words or actions.
Those are the reasons we cannot discuss members who have been banned.
There are many that I miss and years later I still don't know what happened.
It's a good rule though and one to keep in mind.

It is a good rule. Another good rule is that someone could link to a thread where we might stumble across a post or two made by some people with the word "banned" below their screen name...

a reply to: soulpowertothendegree

I have a cynical side myself but since were all anonymous I can never tell who is "who is worth it" from "who isn't".
The only way to be fair is to treat everyone the same and give it your best shot.
I personally dislike the words enforcement and regulate, I would much prefer encouraging others to stay positive and therefore avoid issues with the T&C.
Even if it's just a couple of people who are grateful for concern and a personal response I'm happy to do it. All our staff is that way honestly, that's why they're picked. They're folks who give a damn about other folks.
We'll never win them all nor will everybody like or respect how we do things here.
That's life.
We do our best.

Sometimes it's best to take an occasional tolerance break, you know what I do is

a reply to: Asktheanimals

We've lost a lot of amazing contributors due to personal attacks and unnecessary drama.

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: rockpaperhammock

it seems to me that as time goes by more people are becoming rigid in their beliefs.

This means that instead of having threads where people can discuss possibilities they simply become another battleground for different factions that have to intention of ever changing there view point regardless of what is put forward.

Totally agree but i think the reason for this is that people feel pushed into a corner in order to defend themselves. In the past, whilst attacks still occurred, people could disagree because we collectively gave our reasons / ideas for those beliefs - this allowed us to see wheree others were coming from, even if we completely disagreed (could lead to very interesting debates). While this still occurs to some degree, we also see many more personal attacks. For example:

1) "That's an intertesting view but what about such and such a report, concluding such and such".
2) "You're just a shill / troll"
1) " - "
2)Anyone notice how (1) is always trolling?"

Is it any surprise that people get mad? Or react?

a reply to: Asktheanimals

I'm friends with a few of the moderators.

Interestingly, I have been advised that if I have something
to say, to let someone else post on a subject, then to let
the squads of attack dogs rip each other apart,
then get bored and leave the thread.. and then after
that happens, it's somewhat 'safe' to actually post
something that might take intelligence (and an
open mind) to discuss.

So I've been doing this for more than a year.. but that's
why I never post my own threads anymore.. even though
I have people contact me asking me to start posts.

That's how ridiculous things have gotten.

Kev

Some of us are just feeling "old and in the way" and we don't feel like moving. Flexability as you age in body as well as mind decrease's. IMHO...ATS is a little anal on some subjects......no very anal.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Asktheanimals

I'm friends with a few of the moderators.

Interestingly, I have been advised that if I have something
to say, to let someone else post on a subject, then to let
the squads of attack dogs rip each other apart,
then get bored and leave the thread.. and then after
that happens, it's somewhat 'safe' to actually post
something that might take intelligence (and an
open mind) to discuss.

So I've been doing this for more than a year.. but that's
why I never post my own threads anymore.. even though
I have people contact me asking me to start posts.

That's how ridiculous things have gotten.

Kev

That is a little sad in my opinion.

If you have to wait for the bullies to take there pleasure before even thinking about offereing your own opinion and that is reccomended by those that officiate the forums.

I suppose it becomes a numbers game in the end.

I know there was a big thing a little while ago about addresing this but it looks as if it may be a fruitless endevour.

a reply to: nonspecific

It's not formal ATS advice though, just allegedly a 'few' moderators.
They come from all walks of life and of course have their own personal opinions so in a friend conversation I'm not surprised that some fellow human beings think that course of action is sensible, and recommend it.

...not my cup of tea though and obvious to see from my thread creations, including those with a personal story.
I get various 'gangs' at me all starring each other, self righteous moral superiority, all the rest of it. I love it and enjoy the robust debate.
I don't know any of them and I couldn't care less that they hate me or not, they might just be baiting me for a laugh, again no problem, it provides entertainment at times, and even more so when folk get banned during our interactions.
Love it

Keep to T&C's is all, it ain't rocket science.

a reply to: grainofsand

Agreed.

I just find it sad that some people are wary of voicing there opinion because of what others may think.

As you say keep to T&c's and say what you think regardless of what the masses may say.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Hey Asktheanimals-
I hope this isn't too off topic,but
I don't troll people,and I only debate respectfully,yet I am seeing my ATS"karma"points dropping over the last few days.
As I post this I am at 5985 karma.
A few days ago I was on 5999 karma.

Could you,as an ATS moderator please find out what is going on with my dropping Karma points?
Does my Karma pot have a leak?
Thank you for your time,and sorry if this is off topic.

originally posted by: nonspecific
I just find it sad that some people are wary of voicing there opinion because of what others may think.

Agreed, but it's the same in all walks of life, digital or otherwise. Like the guy you find in any group in the pub who never disagrees with the group. You know, lower down the confidence scale, that is not an internet communication issue per se, more a people/social group issue.

Difference with forums though is that some of us only cross swords in certain specific forums so we read nothing about their opinions anywhere else.
Down the pub we would know the other intricacies of their life like good parent, hard worker, kind to old ladies, blah, and probably be mates with them.
In the digital world it is easier for emotions to fly about X issue because we are not influenced by the other fine details of a person's life which would help us understand where their head is at.
Take away the risk of being smacked in the face then it is always going to invite twats who just wanna troll and pick on less confident folk.

...ATS is better than many online places though

originally posted by: Silcone Synapse
I don't troll people,and I only debate respectfully,yet I am seeing my ATS"karma"points dropping over the last few days.

Does my Karma pot have a leak?

"Karma" comes from adding up things like stars and flags.
The catch is that there is a "divide by the number of posts" somewhere in the formula.
So more posts means lower karma, unless they also bring in some compensating stars.

Watch the newcomers. They all start with 20 karma on their first post.
On their second post, karma is 10.
Their twentieth post may well bring them down to 1.
It's like "Behind the looking glass". You've got to keep running all the time just to stay in one place.