Strange Ice Fields Of Pluto

a reply to: Char-Lee

we must not narrow our thinking to our own terms and comfort.

The Universe is filled with spiral galaxies chocked with suns as far as Hubble can see. Life as we know it requires liquid water and sunlight to even begin to survive.

So far that statement is true for all nine planet types we have visited.

No life detected…

a reply to: intrptr

LOL Here is a list of some of those 'kiddies', perhaps you should respect it.

In the Year 2889 (1889) short story by Jules Verne: Olympus is a massive planet beyond Neptune. It has a mean distance of 11,400,799,642 miles from the Sun (about 4 times the distance of Neptune), and orbits the Sun in 1311 years, 294 days, 12 hours, 43 minutes, and 9 seconds.

Their Destiny (1912) by Donald W. Horner: Astronauts travelling to Alpha Centauri pass a planet beyond Neptune as they leave the solar system.

The Whisperer in Darkness (1930), short story by H. P. Lovecraft, and other stories of the Cthulhu mythos by various writers: Lovecraft identifies Yuggoth (or Iukkoth) with Pluto, but other writers in the mythos claim that it is actually an enormous, trans-Neptunian world that orbits perpendicularly to the ecliptic of the solar system, accompanied by three moons: Nithon, Thog and Thok.

Rescue Party (1946), a short story by Arthur C. Clarke. A reference is made to a starship "passing the orbit of Persephone"; from context, it is clearly a trans-Neptunian planet, and not the asteroid 399 Persephone. (The story also states that there are ten planets in the solar system.)

The Puppet Masters (1951), novel by Robert A. Heinlein: The next planet after Pluto is called Kalki.

A Life for the Stars (1962) by James Blish (collected in Cities in Flight, 1970) has a trans-Plutonian planet called Proserpina.[14]

Known Space books (1964-) by Larry Niven: Persephone is a small gas giant with a single moon, Kobold.
Rendezvous with Rama (1972) and other works by Arthur C. Clarke refer to a tenth planet called Persephone.
Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator (1972), children's story by Roald Dahl: The Vermicious knids are said to be from Vermes, a planet 18,427,000,000 miles from Earth (about 5 times the distance of Pluto).

The Tenth Planet (1973), a novel set upon the rocky planet Minerva, beyond the orbit of Pluto. Minervans, human colonists who escaped ecological disaster on Earth and Mars, live in underground cities; above ground, the planet is so cold as to have lakes of liquid helium.

The Forever War (1974) by Joe Haldeman. The first part of the novel is set on a trans-Plutonian planet called Charon. (This is not Pluto's moon, as the story was written before Charon's discovery in 1978.)

"The Borderland of Sol" (1975), short story by Larry Niven that takes place ca. 2640. Pluto is dismissed as an escaped moon of Neptune, while the solar system's outer planets are listed as Neptune, Persephone, Caïna, Antenora, and Ptolemea, after the innermost rounds of Dante's Inferno, with Judecca reserved for the next discovery.

Schrödinger's Cat trilogy (1980) by Robert Anton Wilson. The tenth planet is named Mickey and the eleventh Goofy (after characters in Disney cartoons).


Mostly Harmless (1992) by Douglas Adams. The tenth planet is officially called Persephone, but nicknamed Rupert (after "some astronomer's parrot"), and is inhabited by the crew of a spaceship who have forgotten almost everything about their mission, except that they are supposed to be "monitoring" something.

The Tenth Planet trilogy (1999–2000) by Dean Wesley Smith and Kristine Kathryn Rusch: A tenth planet circles the Sun and its alien inhabitants periodically harvest Earth's resources.

Galileo's Dream (2009) by Kim Stanley Robinson There are several outer gas giants named. Some of which are described as being converted into energy for time travel. The tenth planet is named as Hades.

Or perhaps you are under the mistaken impression that we name planets like Pluto and Charon after gods, or an entire region on Pluto after Mordor because it sells books?

It couldn't possibly be that people interested in other worlds go about exploring them differently, some with technology and some imagination. No, all that imagination and science fiction didn't have any effect whatsoever on the people who got this satellite there in the first place.

Yea....science fiction is just for kids. Cute.

One of my favorite scifi authors is Larry Niven.

He wrote a book in which a ship using fusion exhaust landed on Pluto, and it ignited the volatile frozen gases of methane and oxygen, pretty much burning it off the entire surface of Pluto.

I think it was the early 70's when he wrote that book.

a reply to: intrptr

No life detected…

Yet

a reply to: eriktheawful

Luckily much of the above works are now in the public domain and can be downloaded free here....Feedbooks

They also have the works of Larry Niven for sale

a reply to: Thorneblood

Oh I have all his books still.

Just too lazy to get up and go look at the bookcase! heh.

I think it was called: "World Of Pataav" or something like that.

originally posted by: eriktheawful
One of my favorite scifi authors is Larry Niven.

He wrote a book in which a ship using fusion exhaust landed on Pluto, and it ignited the volatile frozen gases of methane and oxygen, pretty much burning it off the entire surface of Pluto.

I think it was the early 70's when he wrote that book.

What book, Erik? I have a number of Niven's books, and don't remember that one.

While 'Footfall' may not be true to physics, still one of my favorites. Anytime you can use Heinlein, Asimov, etc., as characters, that's good enough for me

P.s. Sounds like that would work better w/ Jupiter or Saturn (methane-wise).

a reply to: TommyD1966

World of Ptavvs

Part of his Known Space series.

Actually, if there is enough of both methane and oxygen snow, it would lite off as the methane would be the fuel and they oxygen would be the oxidizer.

originally posted by: eriktheawful
a reply to: TommyD1966

World of Ptavvs

Part of his Known Space series.

Actually, if there is enough of both methane and oxygen snow, it would lite off as the methane would be the fuel and they oxygen would be the oxidizer.

And crap, forgot about Man/Kzin wars.

Anyway, FootFall is still my favorite.


Thanks, I'll look it up. My Niven stuff was kinda limited to 'Mote In God's Eye' series and the Moties. Which also rocks.

Oh, and Ringworld. So maybe I just didn't go/read far enough.

You know what it looks like to me... Like the core and mantles cooled under the crust causing shrinkage underneath, and the crust to bunch up....

a reply to: Plotus

It reminds me of certain places here on Earth when it's winter with the ground covered with snow and the rivers are frozen.

originally posted by: eriktheawful
I think it was called: "World Of Pataav" or something like that.

World of Ptaavs.

In the novel, a Slaver whose hyperdrive had failed in interstellar space aimed his craft at near-relativistic speed at Neptune and went into stasis, hoping that the collision with Neptune would be spotted by the slavemaster of Earth.

The Slaver rebellion had already started, though, and there was no slavemaster of Earth when the ship hit a moon of Neptune instead, knocking it out of orbit to become Pluto.

a reply to: Bedlam

Yep. That's the one.

Think about that: what if our first alien contact are with beings like the Slavers ?

:shiver: brrrrrr. No thanks!

a reply to: Char-Lee

I know right?

My grandparents did the same. One of my great-greats was a mountain man who walked to the Rockies...

Now, in a figurative sense we've walked to Pluto.

Amazing.

From the Wright brothers, to Pluto...in what amounts to a lifetime.

The word I"m getting from another forum is mixed. The dark patches are thoguht to be something relating to wind or venting. Some have suggested that there's a "coastline" in these pics, alluding to a cold sea which is capped by thick ice (or fluff?). The polygonal terrain with troughing (and hills or dark patches in them) is where the sea is deepest (and deep enough to be more liquid-ish). It needs to be deep so the pressure is high enough and also for warmth.

NOTE: According to the cold sea narrative there's NO surface liquid or slushy stuff. It's all beneath the upper layer of thick ice or fluff.

But really I have no idea what it's. It's interstinb because nobody knows for sure yet. We'll know in the coming days/weeks/months/years.

We're going to get much higher quality images over the next couple years, coupled with other data which can produce better analysis.

originally posted by: eriktheawful
a reply to: Bedlam

Yep. That's the one.

Think about that: what if our first alien contact are with beings like the Slavers ?

:shiver: brrrrrr. No thanks!

The Tnuctipun are arguably worse. The Kzin wouldn't be a big improvement, and Puppeteers would only be ok as far as you were useful to them.

originally posted by: jonnywhite
NOTE: According to the cold sea narrative there's NO surface liquid or slushy stuff. It's all beneath the upper layer of thick ice or fluff.

But really I have no idea what it's. It's interstinb because nobody knows for sure yet. We'll know in the coming days/weeks/months.

We're going to get much higher quality images over the next couple years.

It's a sea of superfluid Helium, of course.

originally posted by: Char-Lee

originally posted by: Thorneblood
a reply to: intrptr

My grandmother traveled from Missouri to New mexico as a girl in a covered wagon....not very many generations ago a horse and wheels was it...so wow now we are passing Pluto!!

Experts say that the processes of and behind space exploration triggered the massive technological leaps that have occurred over the past 50 years or so.

Today, we're landing on Mars, passing Pluto, have people living in space full-time, etc.., but it seems that there are no new technological leaps coming out of all this exploration. Perhaps we've tapped all we're going to get out of that well until scientists discover something really big that can advance us to the next level?

Passing Pluto is a milestone, but to me it's akin to dipping your toe in the ocean. It's a start, but nothing compared to swimming in the ocean.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: jonnywhite
NOTE: According to the cold sea narrative there's NO surface liquid or slushy stuff. It's all beneath the upper layer of thick ice or fluff.

But really I have no idea what it's. It's interstinb because nobody knows for sure yet. We'll know in the coming days/weeks/months.

We're going to get much higher quality images over the next couple years.

It's a sea of superfluid Helium, of course.

Rrom what I understand it doesn't have to be a special liquid, just one that will melt at those temps and pressures. In labs they can get special liquids in tehse temps/pressures easy, but nature is different.

The main requirement then for any liquid sea is for it to be deep underneath a layer of ice/fluff so the pressure is high enough. And from what I can tell this also might allow for more warmth or something.

a reply to: jonnywhite

Liquid helium would be ok on the surface, if superfluid then the boiling stops...