Ninety-five Percent of Women Who Have Had Abortions Do Not Regret Their Decision

a reply to: theantediluvian

Oooh, that's good. Now call him a bigot, that'll teach him to oppose your opinions.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Sounds like slavery. Judging by your avatar, you're not disturbed by associations with slavery or maybe it's just a matter of perspective?

Frankly, I'm not disturbed by associations with much of anything. I know who and what I am, I'm extremely comfortable with myself, and that's the bottom line. Haters are gonna hate and I have no interest in wasting my time trying to sway the opinions of haters.
(I see you edited your comment, so I'll give you a two'fer)

'3. In any other scenario, one human deciding the fate of another with zero concern over the wants and needs of the latter is sociopathic behavior.'

Sounds like slavery. Or is slavery okay as long as you frame it as a states' rights issue?

Where did I ever advocate slavery? Thanks for the statement though, I find a world of parallels between abortion and slavery. Hopefully one day America will advance it's morality far enough to outlaw this modern equivalent to slavery once and for all.

Full disclosure i waiver between agnostic, deist, and spinozaism but still think after a point abortion is murder. No way around it if you use philosophy and thics standards of debates. We need to address when the fetus is conscious enough to have thoughts and feelings and be very restrictive after what the scientific and medical community agrees that point is. Obviously the dr and woman should make the decision but after that point it shouod be only after trauma, danger to health, extreme fetal birth defects and a like situations.

Other wise its murder not biblically but ethically, morally, and philosophically.

originally posted by: bm2112
time.com...

I found this article today and I think it is relevant after seeing some recent discussions about abortion on the forums. The study involved 667 women from varied backgrounds and they were surveyed semi-annually about whether they thought they made the right decision, as well as their emotions surrounding their abortion.

Whereas I don't doubt that a lot of women experience regret, the 95% stat seems a bit high.

All Fetus Lives Matter.

originally posted by: bm2112
It's funny because we send soliders all around the world to kill people that we don't agree with and we consider this normal. We kill billions and billions of animals every year, and it doesn't seem to bother many of us. But God forbid we let a woman determine whether or not she is ready to bring a child into this world.

No, it is not any different, but many Americans don't have enough education to understand such an ethical argument in the first place. I personally wouldn't bother trying to reach them, large portions of the USA populace cannot and are unwilling to be swayed at this juncture because they actually like the current ethical stance of United States as a country, which, as you and I know, is nothing more than a 2nd world, fascist stronghold, run on Neo-feudalistic principles.

Many Americans believe and follow these kinds of oppressive ethical stances because they HOPE that "one day", they too will get their chance to be the "oppressor". Those getting sick of living in a 2nd world country, such as the United States, have no choice BUT to move to a real 1st World nation because the United States has not been a 1st World nation since the end of the 1990's (perhaps even 10 years earlier pending on ones perspective).

originally posted by: luthier
Other wise its murder not biblically but ethically, morally, and philosophically.

Above is a perfect example, how many sweat shop products do you think are in this persons home, hundreds, thousands? How many people were maimed or died in the process of making those products that were purchased by this individual? Making the choice to buy sweat shop produced goods isn't really much farther away ethically, than abortion. But, as I said, these people can't think, so just consider them as raiding barbarians or Somali pirates, whom can't be negotiated with, from here on out. Doing so will make things much easier to deal with because you won't have to expend any energy trying to argue with them.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
I'd suggest they seek psychiatric treatment for the obvious mental illness that causes them to render the value of a human life they created down to some measure of time and monetary worth. If anyone other than a protected voter base did that, they'd be rounded up and thrown in a padded cell.

Big business does this same valuation EVERY DAY in corporate American and typically gets applause for doing so. Where do you suggest CEO's of various companies across the nation, other C-level staff and their accompanying Boards of Directors line up to get their much needed psychiatric treatment?

originally posted by: xuenchen
All Fetus Lives Matter.

Hands up, don't abort.

originally posted by: boohoo

originally posted by: bm2112
It's funny because we send soliders all around the world to kill people that we don't agree with and we consider this normal. We kill billions and billions of animals every year, and it doesn't seem to bother many of us. But God forbid we let a woman determine whether or not she is ready to bring a child into this world.

No, it is not any different, but many Americans don't have enough education to understand such an ethical argument in the first place. I personally wouldn't bother trying to reach them, large portions of the USA populace cannot and are unwilling to be swayed at this juncture because they actually like the current ethical stance of United States as a country, which, as you and I know, is nothing more than a 2nd world, fascist stronghold, run on Neo-feudalistic principles.

Many Americans believe and follow these kinds of oppressive ethical stances because they HOPE that "one day", they too will get their chance to be the "oppressor". Those getting sick of living in a 2nd world country, such as the United States, have no choice BUT to move to a real 1st World nation because the United States has not been a 1st World nation since the end of the 1990's (perhaps even 10 years earlier pending on ones perspective).

originally posted by: luthier
Other wise its murder not biblically but ethically, morally, and philosophically.

Above is a perfect example, how many sweat shop products do you think are in this persons home, hundreds, thousands? How many people were maimed or died in the process of making those products that were purchased by this individual? Making the choice to buy sweat shop produced goods isn't really much farther away ethically, than abortion. But, as I said, these people can't think, so just consider them as raiding barbarians or Somali pirates, whom can't be negotiated with, from here on out. Doing so will make things much easier to deal with because you won't have to expend any energy trying to argue with them.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
I'd suggest they seek psychiatric treatment for the obvious mental illness that causes them to render the value of a human life they created down to some measure of time and monetary worth. If anyone other than a protected voter base did that, they'd be rounded up and thrown in a padded cell.

Big business does this same valuation EVERY DAY in corporate American and typically gets applause for doing so. Where do you suggest CEO's of various companies across the nation, other C-level staff and their accompanying Boards of Directors line up to get their much needed psychiatric treatment?

Explain yourself since you challenged me I dare you to have a real philosophical debate noy usimg fallacy to prove killing a conscious fetus is not murder. When you kill a pregnant women how many counts of murder do you get?

I very specifically said its between a women and her dr however after the medical and science field has declared the state which a viable life and fetus can feel and hold thoughts its murder. Dont give me some quasi ethical idealism either lets debate this using actual ethics or hide behind some anti establishment crap thhat doeant recognize logic.

By the way I am a luthier make most of what I can, buy local, and pay labour from mexico 12 bucks an hour when i use them. Am i perfect no. Do you have a car? Ride the bus? Take trains? Or do you walk and take horses everywhere? I also have solar panels and two hybrids.

So try again. I am speaking from an ethical standpoint. Murdering some on premedated is different than many other situations and if you had the education to have observed the many philosophers around the world in many ages you would have the understanding to debate this.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I'd say you're advocating it right now with your avatar. Though as I said, it's all a matter of perspective.

"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth"

-- Confederate Vice President Alexander H. Stephens' "Cornerstone Speech" delivered March 21, 1861

"As a people we are fighting to maintain the heavenly ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause. Such a flag would be a suitable emblem of our young confederacy, and sustained by the brave hearts and strong arms of the south, it would soon take rank among the proudest ensigns of the nations, and be hailed by the civilized world as the white man's flag.

[...]

As a national emblem, it is significant of our higher cause, the cause of a superior race, and a higher civilization contending against ignorance, infidelity, and barbarism. Another merit in the new flag is, that it bears no resemblance to the now infamous banner of the Yankee vandals."

-- William Thompson, designer of the "Stainless Banner" from an editorial in Morning News, 1863

In more recent times, in the death throws of segregation, Confederate symbolism became more popular than at any time since the end of the Civil War. I'm sure there are some willfully ignorant souls who would argue that resisting desegregation was about states' rights and rebelling against the aggression of the federal government but who would even attempt to defend that point of view today?

So when did the flag completely lose its former associations? When it was painted atop an orange 1969 Charger or when supporting it under the most absurd pretenses became the Conservatively Correct thing to do? I wonder if 50 years from now people will be filled with self-satisfaction as they rebel against "political correctness" with something a little more notorious like the Nazi era German national flag?

EDIT:

I just thought it was ironic that you're going on about the will and desires of fetuses as you proudly display the 'ol rebel flag.

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
a reply to: theantediluvian

Oooh, that's good. Now call him a bigot, that'll teach him to oppose your opinions.

I've got a few thousand posts, perhaps you could find one where I call anyone a bigot let alone do so to dismiss an opinion?

Late-term abortion is terrible and I understand all the uproar. An early abortion a few weeks after conception is a better alternative to me than being born to people who don't want you and don't have the ability to properly care for a child.

That is a crime.

I think the 95% figure is completely accurate.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Metallicus

As men we shouldn't have a say in it.
We have no right let the women sort this out.

It is interesting that you would mention that men have no say in the abortion. I got a girl pregnant in college and I wanted to keep the child. She decided to have an abortion. I have been sad about the son or daughter I never had for the last 30 years and especially since I have had a child of my own.

Now if the situation were reversed I would be on the hook for an average of 100k in child support for a child she decided to keep and I get no choice. The fact that I don't get a say in what happens to my child...especially given the consequences of HER decision is disgusting.

a reply to: Metallicus

And how do you feel when people other then you tell you what to do with your body?

I agree 100% the conversation should be had before the woman does it, but at the end of the day it is her body that has to go thru the birth.

I bet the same people, not necessarily you, that say the man needs to have the say are the same people that freak out when we try and put restrictions on things to combat the obesity problem the states has

I do not believe this.

Sadly I know several women who have chosen to have one, and close to half say they regret it.

I wonder, did they ask these women once they had children and settled down? They say three years, that really isn't a long time at all. Many women will not regret their decision ever, but once you have gone through a live birth that is wanted, perspectives sometimes change. I knew one person who didn't start to regret it until she went to hold her friends hand, while her friend had an abortion.


I think that the majority of women do not regret their decision but I think that the ratio is way off. I really think that more than 5% do regret it.

originally posted by: Metallicus
That's a strange outcome for the poll. If I killed someone and didn't have any regrets they would probably call me a sociopath. Funny how that works.

Or a politician.

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Metallicus

As men we shouldn't have a say in it.
We have no right let the women sort this out.

It is interesting that you would mention that men have no say in the abortion. I got a girl pregnant in college and I wanted to keep the child. She decided to have an abortion. I have been sad about the son or daughter I never had for the last 30 years and especially since I have had a child of my own.

Now if the situation were reversed I would be on the hook for an average of 100k in child support for a child she decided to keep and I get no choice. The fact that I don't get a say in what happens to my child...especially given the consequences of HER decision is disgusting.

Pro-choice is only for women.
Deadbeat parenting is mostly reserved for men.

It is interesting (and sad) that this happened to you. I'm sorry for your loss. Double standards don't exist anymore though right?

a reply to: ketsuko

More like 100% don't care, seeing how they never developed to the point of sentience and caring. You know, just like you have no memory, knowledge, recollection to the time in the womb and before.

And if those "children" were coming from mothers in poverty, on drugs, with mental issues, they would probably be glad they were not brought into a life of hell.

I will add my voice as someone who has had to make the choice and had an abortion. I do not regret my decision 20 years later. It was hard, but it was the correct choice. Judge me if you like. But since you know not the circumstances, I'd really hold off judgement.

originally posted by: brandiwine14
I do not believe this.

Sadly I know several women who have chosen to have one, and close to half say they regret it.

I wonder, did they ask these women once they had children and settled down? They say three years, that really isn't a long time at all. Many women will not regret their decision ever, but once you have gone through a live birth that is wanted, perspectives sometimes change. I knew one person who didn't start to regret it until she went to hold her friends hand, while her friend had an abortion.


I think that the majority of women do not regret their decision but I think that the ratio is way off. I really think that more than 5% do regret it.

Of course it is more than 5 percent. Its a rediculous survey and has no actual meaning. Statistics are usually just used for propaganda. I am all for freedom of choice until a point when the fetus is a thinking feeling thing thwn it should be a harder situation. I am not an expert on when that is and it should be based on science but if we are a civil society we cant really condone murdering a conscious being by just saying its a womans body its her choice.

Seems like a no brainer somewhere in the 20-24 week range the fetus is starting to have feelings and thoughts before that its a choice between the woman and a doctor after that it should be medically necesarry or have pretty serious circumstances. 5 or 6 months is a long time to wait to decide what you are going to do however, victims of traumatic abuse are different.

Yea, so what?

Nearly 70% of the abortions performed in NYC are performed on REPEAT customers.
Same city 2013.
More babies were aborted in NYC that year than were born. Look it up.

Answer is obvious as others have said. Birth control.

This coming from the proud father of a son I had at age 16 mind you. Killing the issue is wrong. I grew up.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

SOMEONE on this board once referred to the fetus as a parasite.
I have fought in a war and the coldness of such a thought is horrible to me.