The Ban On Transgender Individuals In The Military May Soon Be Lifted

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: EKron
SRS is not some magic confirmation or badge of gender. One of the things it does do though is take you out of the middle and into the conventional binary male/female paradigm in all aspects at all times and in all environments.

^^^^ THIS

I hope this doesn't make me a "separatist" but I don't have a problem with the military saying one has to have had SRS. To me if one wants to live "in the middle" they don't belong in a military system which until fairly recently in the country's history was set up for only one gender: male.

They have had a difficult enough time adapting to two genders and they are set up for two genders. I would not feel comfortable sharing facilities with a transgender woman who was in-the-middle but less discreet about what was "down there" if you know what I mean?

This is a difficult issue because for socio-economic reasons there are many transgender people who might want STS who can not afford SRS. The military has always offered a way in which people from these socio-economic groups could "pick themselves up" and pay for college or learn a skill or trade. So banning those who might be in the middle and want SRS from the military would really restrict them from bettering themselves and being able to serve.

The only solution I see for this is that if a recruit who was trans but in the middle, wanted SRS the military would pay for the surgery as they do with college but unlike college the payment would be 2 years prior to the recruit joining the service.

Would people be ok with this as a solution?

No. The military is not in the business to provide SRS surgery. Medical care is one of the biggest expenses to DOD and we don't need to add more expense onto it.

Did you see the part where it was not coming out of the medical fund but the GI Bill funds?

Different pots of money. You really don't know how the military works do you?

I must admit, I don't.

And when the GI Bill funds come up short? The hullaballo about that? When the transgender demands (and they will) that they or their kids should get the GI education funds too?

I don't think that transgender people who had their SRS paid for under the GI bill would push for funds for education. That would be double dipping and unfair.

You don't know transgender people well do you?

Most would be ecstatic that a) They could complete their surgery b) didn't have to go into debt to do so.

a reply to: NavyDoc

I did say "transgendered woman" did I not?

originally posted by: Kojiro
a reply to: NavyDoc

I did say "transgendered woman" did I not?

Welcome

To tell you the truth I don't even really care about this issue too much as it does not affect me and your right it is a very small minority in society in general let alone the military. So why should I care about a few people compared to the many, I don't anymore. I'm just going to do me and the let the haters hate as I dust my shoulders off.

a reply to: JadeStar

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: NavyDoc
What advantages does SRS bring the service? Especially when we are in a drawdown and turning people away/and using any medical issue to discharge over?

Not having "in-betweens" joining up and freaking people out maybe?

That's rather prejudiced isn't it? Trappedprincess was a good Marine by accounts, even if he wasn't "all of the way done."

I did not mean it to be prejudicial.

I meant for it to be a stark example of how those who are cisnormative (people who are not transgender or transsexual people who have completed everything and blend into society) might see someone who was in the midst of their transition.

I myself would not be comfortable sharing close quarters with a transgender woman who did not have SRS and was less than discrete about her private parts. Now if I would be kinda freaked out about that imagine a woman not of transgender experience who might be exposed to such a person living in close quarters.

The military as you probably know better than I do probably isn't set up for that.

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
To tell you the truth I don't even really care about this issue too much as it does not affect me and your right it is a very small minority in society in general let alone the military. So why should I care about a few people compared to the many, I don't anymore. I'm just going to do me and the let the haters hate as I dust my shoulders off.

a reply to: JadeStar

*hug*

TrappedPrincess you know that I am your friend and that we are on the same side for the most part. It's just this issue where you and I differ.

I know that you are in the midst of your process and I feel that perhaps you may begin to see things differently some years after you complete it. Be open to that. Be open to change. It's ok to modify your position later on.

I will fully admit that I may someday look back at this thread and be horrified at how small minded i might be seeing this but times change and this is one area where a lot is changing very rapidly.

Can we like not go run off and mistrust each other?

We felt the same things growing up but dealt with them differently. You are still my sister even if you don't agree with what I say and vice versa.

Sisters by circumstances should not be separated by a small difference of opinion don't you think?

Well so far all the cases of transgender service men and women has been kept quiet and they have served well without any incidents of medical problems meaning psychologically, now lets note that the military never provided this individuals with any services during their transition and the transition was done after service in the military.

Is been cases in which some individuals has asked the military for gender re assignation surgery but they have been denied as is codes enacted and the person once found to be transgender is immediately discharged.

So I think that is great chances that been transgender will not be look at as a mental disorder any more but also I doubt the military will pay for any on going medical needs that transgender individuals may have as that is a choice no a medical problem.

Like everything we have to wait and see.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: EKron
SRS is not some magic confirmation or badge of gender. One of the things it does do though is take you out of the middle and into the conventional binary male/female paradigm in all aspects at all times and in all environments.

^^^^ THIS

I hope this doesn't make me a "separatist" but I don't have a problem with the military saying one has to have had SRS. To me if one wants to live "in the middle" they don't belong in a military system which until fairly recently in the country's history was set up for only one gender: male.

They have had a difficult enough time adapting to two genders and they are set up for two genders. I would not feel comfortable sharing facilities with a transgender woman who was in-the-middle but less discreet about what was "down there" if you know what I mean?

This is a difficult issue because for socio-economic reasons there are many transgender people who might want STS who can not afford SRS. The military has always offered a way in which people from these socio-economic groups could "pick themselves up" and pay for college or learn a skill or trade. So banning those who might be in the middle and want SRS from the military would really restrict them from bettering themselves and being able to serve.

The only solution I see for this is that if a recruit who was trans but in the middle, wanted SRS the military would pay for the surgery as they do with college but unlike college the payment would be 2 years prior to the recruit joining the service.

Would people be ok with this as a solution?

No. The military is not in the business to provide SRS surgery. Medical care is one of the biggest expenses to DOD and we don't need to add more expense onto it.

Did you see the part where it was not coming out of the medical fund but the GI Bill funds?

Different pots of money. You really don't know how the military works do you?

I must admit, I don't.

And when the GI Bill funds come up short? The hullaballo about that? When the transgender demands (and they will) that they or their kids should get the GI education funds too?

I don't think that transgender people who had their SRS paid for under the GI bill would push for funds for education. That would be double dipping and unfair.

You don't know transgender people well do you?

Most would be ecstatic that a) They could complete their surgery b) didn't have to go into debt to do so.

I know people quite well and when there are benefits to be had, a lot of issues come up, some not as noble as others.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: NavyDoc
What advantages does SRS bring the service? Especially when we are in a drawdown and turning people away/and using any medical issue to discharge over?

Not having "in-betweens" joining up and freaking people out maybe?

That's rather prejudiced isn't it? Trappedprincess was a good Marine by accounts, even if he wasn't "all of the way done."

I did not mean it to be prejudicial.

I meant for it to be a stark example of how those who are cisnormative (people who are not transgender or transsexual people who have completed everything and blend into society) might see someone who was in the midst of their transition.

I myself would not be comfortable sharing close quarters with a transgender woman who did not have SRS and was less than discrete about her private parts. Now if I would be kinda freaked out about that imagine a woman not of transgender experience who might be exposed to such a person living in close quarters.

The military as you probably know better than I do probably isn't set up for that.

Shrug. I think it points out that even transgender people have their prejudices and hangups which sort of indicates that non transgender people shouldn't be criticized for theirs if you guys have the same issues between each other.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: NavyDoc
What advantages does SRS bring the service? Especially when we are in a drawdown and turning people away/and using any medical issue to discharge over?

Not having "in-betweens" joining up and freaking people out maybe?

That's rather prejudiced isn't it? Trappedprincess was a good Marine by accounts, even if he wasn't "all of the way done."

I did not mean it to be prejudicial.

I meant for it to be a stark example of how those who are cisnormative (people who are not transgender or transsexual people who have completed everything and blend into society) might see someone who was in the midst of their transition.

I myself would not be comfortable sharing close quarters with a transgender woman who did not have SRS and was less than discrete about her private parts. Now if I would be kinda freaked out about that imagine a woman not of transgender experience who might be exposed to such a person living in close quarters.

The military as you probably know better than I do probably isn't set up for that.

I really don't understand you, so on one hand you understand someone (or at least you should) that is like you but you would be bothered by someone in transition? Isn't that a bit self hating don't you think? Either it is self hate or elitism as in you think you are a real woman and I am not. Ok now I am mad and I will stand with the naysayers and say that neither of us are women then. You have just had a very complicated surgery to make you feel better about yourself. See I'm ok saying that because ultimately I love me and who I am and don't care what others think and I don't have to bend or remove anything from myself to be a whole person.

For anyone interested...

www.huffingtonpost.com...

a reply to: NavyDoc

Tell me about it, my husband is very adamant when it comes to taken the government and any benefits that he could have for a ride, (he had knee surgery after retiring and he complained about his knee way before he retired, but never made a case of it), but lo and behold we know plenty that have not problem getting what ever they can from their so call "injuries" while serving and the benefits are not a lump some but for life.

a reply to: Darth_Prime

I read that article and many more but he is under the "don't ask don't tell rule" so while he shows his gender preferences he never really has identified as transgender as that is until this day considered a mental disorder and bases for discharge.

Beside that he is also actively an advocate and working on for the change in rules when it comes to the codes behind the discharge of transgender individuals.

Wow you should both move to my town by the seaside and chill in a place where nobody really bats an eyelid about anything as long as it harms nobody else.
We actually have a larger percentage of trans folk here due to migration from other parts because it is an area of the UK where although we have the odd bigot or two, the majority will fight for an innocent fellow human so our bigots are only outwardly bigoted in front of their bigoted friends.

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: Darth_Prime

I read that article and many more but he is under the "don't ask don't tell rule" so while he shows his gender preferences he never really has identified as transgender as that is until this day considered a mental disorder and bases for discharge.

Beside that he is also actively an advocate and working on for the change in rules when it comes to the codes behind the discharge of transgender individuals.

Interestingly enough it is against regulations to wear the uniform when advocating for political causes and steroids are currently illegal to use in the DOD.

originally posted by: marg6043
Well so far all the cases of transgender service men and women has been kept quiet and they have served well without any incidents of medical problems meaning psychologically, now lets note that the military never provided this individuals with any services during their transition and the transition was done after service in the military.

Because of the part which you bolded we might never know of those who suicided or whose gender dysphoria impacted their performance.

That's the reason I suggested a way that the military could protect itself from potentially negative outcomes from those who might join for whatever reason but can not handle being forced into living a gender role different from that which they are transitioning to later on.

I don't see any problem with those who have transitioned joining and serving as the gender they present so long as they've had surgery.

Like everything we have to wait and see.

Yes.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Well it seems that I been reading now many stories like that all coming from the same source, the article also said that he is for reenlisting in 2017.

The other articles I read tells of different stories as the people has served quietly but proudly.

Interesting.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: NavyDoc
What advantages does SRS bring the service? Especially when we are in a drawdown and turning people away/and using any medical issue to discharge over?

Not having "in-betweens" joining up and freaking people out maybe?

That's rather prejudiced isn't it? Trappedprincess was a good Marine by accounts, even if he wasn't "all of the way done."

I did not mean it to be prejudicial.

I meant for it to be a stark example of how those who are cisnormative (people who are not transgender or transsexual people who have completed everything and blend into society) might see someone who was in the midst of their transition.

I myself would not be comfortable sharing close quarters with a transgender woman who did not have SRS and was less than discrete about her private parts. Now if I would be kinda freaked out about that imagine a woman not of transgender experience who might be exposed to such a person living in close quarters.

The military as you probably know better than I do probably isn't set up for that.

Shrug. I think it points out that even transgender people have their prejudices and hangups which sort of indicates that non transgender people shouldn't be criticized for theirs if you guys have the same issues between each other.

You're joking right?

That's like saying: "Well since black people have had their own hangups with skin color within their race it's ok if some white guy calls them all the n-word".

Um, no.

a reply to: JadeStar

One thing I have to agree is that the military have a very high incident of suicides but we never get to know the basis or details for the mental problems leading to that.

originally posted by: grainofsand
Wow you should both move to my town by the seaside and chill in a place where nobody really bats an eyelid about anything as long as it harms nobody else.
We actually have a larger percentage of trans folk here due to migration from other parts because it is an area of the UK where although we have the odd bigot or two, the majority will fight for an innocent fellow human so our bigots are only outwardly bigoted in front of their bigoted friends.

Your seaside town sounds a lot like mine. Except mine is in the USA and it's called Seattle.