"The American ‘stealth' planes are a publicity stunt" - Russian General

General Sergei Babakov says that American stealth planes are fully visible to even s400 radar system, not to mention classified system of s500

Could this be the reason US regime has yet to seriously confront Russia and put its money where it's mouth is.

Could this be the reason Russia never seriously looked at developing their own stealth, cause there is no point.

Could it be that the US has wasted a lot of money. Not that wasting gobs of money is something US gov ever cared about.

sputniknews.com...

a reply to: PredatorCrackling

If i was a Russian General i'd say that too.

Russia probably never built a stealth plane because they couldn't afford to design or maintain the program.

I remember a story a long time ago where the U.S spent a bucket load of money of making a pen work in space...The Russians just shrugged and used pencils !!

a reply to: EA006

I starred you for that, you have a point

I like to consider myself objective.

But think about this for a moment, if US stealth technology is such an end all be all, why would they get so fussy with Russia selling s300 world wide and even s400

It seems that USA really doesn't like to fly where Russian made radar units are.

originally posted by: fishwhisperer
I remember a story a long time ago where the U.S spent a bucket load of money of making a pen work in space...The Russians just shrugged and used pencils !!

Even Hillary Clinton once on CNN said that Russians are remarkable and resourceful people.

Of course she twisted it in the end and added that it is a shame Putin leads such people

What more does the US need to do to Russia, its economy is wrecked and forces have been moved to NATO allies. Outside of attacking Russia, what more should they do?

And Russia has its own stealth program Russia begins testing stealth prototypes

So if it does not work then why are they wasting money on it? This is more about trying to cover up Russia's stealth program failures. Between that and the cost its entire program is in trouble.

a reply to: PredatorCrackling

Never looked at developing their own? Really?

rt.com...
nationalinterest.org...

The T-50 is a 34 ton fighter that is more maneuverable than the 33 ton Su-27 it will replace, has much better electronics, is stealthy and can cruise at above the speed of sound. Russia is promising a fighter with a life of 6,000 flight hours and engines good for 4,000 hours. Russia promises world-class avionics, plus a very pilot-friendly cockpit. The use of many thrusters and fly-by-wire will produce an aircraft even more maneuverable than earlier Su-30s (which have been extremely agile). The problem the Indians have is that the improvements do not appear to be worth the additional investment. The T-50 costs at least 50 percent more than the Su-27. That would be some $60 million (for a bare bones model, at least 50 percent more with all the options), about what a top-of-the-line F-16 costs. The Su-27 was originally developed to match the American F-15.

The T-50 is not meant to be a direct rival for the F-22 because the Russian aircraft is not as stealthy. But if the maneuverability and advanced electronics live up to the promises, the aircraft would be more than a match for every fighter out there other than the F-22. If such a T-50 was sold for under $100 million each there would be a lot of buyers. But it looks like the T-50 will cost more. For the moment the T-50 and the Chinese J-20 (and J-31) are the only potential competitors for the F-22 that are in development.

Like the F-22, T-50 development expenses are increasing, and it looks like the T-50 will cost at least $120 million each (including a share of the development cost) but only if 500 or more are manufactured. Russia hopes to build as many as a thousand. Few F-22s were built because of the high cost. American developers are now seeking to apply their stealth, and other technologies, to the development of combat UAVs. Thus, by the time the T-50 enters service at the end of the decade it may already be made obsolete by cheaper, unmanned, stealthy fighters. The United States, Russia, and China are all working on applying stealth technology to combat UAVs. Thus the mass produced 6th generation unmanned fighter may be the aircraft that replaces most current fighters

www.strategypage.com...

They're even trying to develop a stealth bomber.

Russia has commissioned Tupolev once again to provide their newest bomber and following on the heels of the new Sukhoi-designed PAK-FA fifth generation fighter aircraft, Tupolev is designing this PAK-DA bomber to augment the extant bomber fleet while adding new advantages in terms of stealth, navigational and computational avionics, and speed.

inserbia.info...

It's amazing. Everyone goes on about how stealth doesn't really work, and can be seen by everything from an SA-2 radar to an ocilliscope (yes, slightly sarcastic there), and yet, China has two stealth fighters in testing, stealth UAVs on the drawing board, and a bomber in the works, and Russia has both a fighter and bomber in developement. Even India is getting some of the T-50s for their fighter fleet.

But stealth sucks. Got it.

As for the S400 and S500 claims, yes, the F-22 can be seen by both of them. Stealth doesn't make a plane invisible, it decreases the detection range, to the point where the stealth aircraft can get its weapons off first. Of course Russia is going to claim that their systems work great against the best out there. It's a marketing ploy. They've never gone against an F-22 in any capacity, let alone one that was trying to hide from them, so there's no way to know how they're going to do.

a reply to: PredatorCrackling

Because newer Russian SAM systems will make quick work of most US 4th generation jets. Their stealth jets would still be effective, but 4th gen assets would still be required to win an air war in the vast majority of countries out there that the US might face off against.

originally posted by: fishwhisperer
I remember a story a long time ago where the U.S spent a bucket load of money of making a pen work in space...The Russians just shrugged and used pencils !!

Just a silly story
www.snopes.com...

Both U.S. astronauts and Soviet cosmonauts initially used pencils on space flights, but those writing instruments were not ideal: pencil tips can flake and break off, and having such objects floating around space capsules in near-zero gravity posed a potential harm to astronauts and equipment. (As well, after the fatal Apollo 1 fire in 1967, NASA was anxious to avoid having astronauts carry flammable objects such as pencils onboard with them.) When the solution of providing astronauts with a ballpoint pen that would work under weightless conditions and extreme temperatures came about, though, it wasn't because NASA had thrown hundreds of thousands of dollars (inflated to $12 billion in the latest iterations of this tale) in research and development money at the problem. The "space pen" that has since become famous through its use by astronauts was developed independently by Paul C. Fisher of the Fisher Pen Co., who spent his own money on the project and, once he perfected his AG-7 "Anti-Gravity" Space Pen, offered it to NASA. After that agency tested and approved the pen's suitability for use in space flights, they purchased a number of the instruments from Fisher for a modest price. Read more at www.snopes.com...

a reply to: PredatorCrackling

Because there is currently ONE stealth fighter program operational (179 aircraft), and ONE stealth bomber program operational (20 aircraft). That means that the vast majority of the aircraft involved in any kind of strike are going to be non-stealthy, older aircraft that are going to have a harder time avoiding missiles, are detected at far longer ranges, and are far more vulnerable.

a reply to: Zaphod58

That's exactly my point, read your own links

They never SERIOUSLY got into stealth.

More like let's haphazardly put into use what our spies stole from the US.

a reply to: PredatorCrackling

And yet, they've gone from planning on having 55 T-50s by 2020, with 150 total, to getting 12, because of rising costs and a worsening economy. And that's according to Russian sources, not Western sources. Instead of the T-50 they're going to upgrade and buy more 4th generation aircraft.

a reply to: PredatorCrackling

Where do you think stealth came from? The Soviets developed the formula that allowed RCS to be calculated, which allowed for stealth. They chose not to use it because they didn't have the technology at the time to do it. No one has had the technology to make true stealth fighters until the F-22 came along. Russia and China are both playing catch up.

Russia has had major production problems, even within the last 5 or 6 years. Stealth requires precise production that they haven't had until recently. Now that they're getting better at it, they're trying to develop stealth aircraft, and their having problems with their economy, so are still behind.

a reply to: Zaphod58

You know I dare say, they have their own military machine to feed.

Some projects you start for sheer experience than actual expectations of results.

The Russians just shrugged and used pencils !!

a reply to: fishwhisperer

Of course they did, pencil is easy to ERASE.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Zap don't be so cocky

Even some Serbs knocked an expensive stealth bomber years ago.

a reply to: PredatorCrackling

And you don't start a program for "sheer experience" all the while claiming that it's going to be your front line program, that is better than anything else out there. The T-50 has been claimed to be the most advanced 5th generation fighter in the world, and better than the F-22 in most ways, and that it was going to lead the way in the new Russian air force.

originally posted by: PredatorCrackling

originally posted by: fishwhisperer
I remember a story a long time ago where the U.S spent a bucket load of money of making a pen work in space...The Russians just shrugged and used pencils !!

Even Hillary Clinton once on CNN said that Russians are remarkable and resourceful people.

Of course she twisted it in the end and added that it is a shame Putin leads such people

She misspoke meaning this instead "It is a shame Alexander Dupin is not actually in charge" (Rasputin reincarnated).

a reply to: PredatorCrackling

Again, go up and read a previous post. Stealth doesn't make you invisible, it makes you harder to see. There was one F-117 shot down, out of over 10,000 combat missions. It was hit on the third night of flying the same route, at roughly the same time, by a very smart battery commander.

And I'm not being cocky. It's an easily researched fact that the Russians have had production problems in recent years. Out of the first 16 Su-34s that were delivered to the Russian air force, all 16 had serious problems, including two that couldn't even fly out of safety fears. You could take the same board from three different aircraft, and they were built three different ways, sometimes the parts weren't even on the same side of the board.