Political correctness scares me .

Here's my problem with the PC crowd. We both acknowledge that racism is a problem. We agree people should be treated well, but I genuinely value the right of people to make me uncomfortable. You don't. I like being challenged and seek it out, you fit yourself into an echo chamber and fall for the group polarization and make massive block lists that you distribute across the web. I don't write letters to bosses to make people go away, that's your life focus!

How am I the one being looked down on as some loony asshole, when I'm the one whose standing up for what freedom is really supposed to be? This is the side that's consistent with freedom. This is the principled stance. You can't claim freedom with your list of forbidden words and "disgusting" thoughts. No you can't claim that as freedom. That's a lie.

originally posted by: mahatche
Here's my problem with the PC crowd. We both acknowledge that racism is a problem. We agree people should be treated well, but I genuinely value the right of people to make me uncomfortable. You don't. I like being challenged and seek it out, you fit yourself into an echo chamber and fall for the group polarization and make massive block lists that you distribute across the web. I don't write letters to bosses to make people go away, that's your life focus!

How am I the one being looked down on as some loony asshole, when I'm the one whose standing up for what freedom is really supposed to be? This is the side that's consistent with freedom. This is the principled stance. You can't claim freedom with your list of forbidden words and "disgusting" thoughts. No you can't claim that as freedom. That's a lie.

Again...I'd suggest the solution is to stop placing so much value in what the "twittersphere"? Is that a word? is outraged about.

It has always been so...Keep an open mind, but stop being "outraged" at the "outrage"...isn't that an "outrage" self circle jerk?

Or to go all Kipling on you...

If you can keep your head when all about you

Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,

If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,

But make allowance for their doubting too;

originally posted by: masqua
a reply to: mahatche

So... basically what you're saying is that the media is the source of 'Professional Outrage'? I'd agree with that completely.

That's why we all need to stop watching the media that agrees with what we 'believe' and start checking out those media we disagree with as well.

It's the old notion of being spoon fed cold mush, told it's strawberry ice cream and trusting it to be true.

The media plays a major part in it. There is no denying the media pushes agendas.

The other part is social media. Social media changed things. Now stances come with a lot more social pressure, and everyone you know can see them. Everyone has the most unreasonable public images where they do their best to convince the people around them that they are saints, everyone knows they are wretched self centered assholes, but we go along with it. It used to be easier to keep it to your self, or limit it to people you respect as thinkers, now no one wants to be the guy who goes viral for saying the wrong things. No one wants to be shamed in front of everyone they know. No one wants to lose their job, but that's now a tool in the outraged activist tool box. It's inanity. I'm not on the wrong side.

a reply to: mahatche

I get what you're saying... I really do. This is why i posted about the PC crowd killing off old Socrates.

But I also mentioned the Suffragette Movement, which was totally and completely a PC idea.

Sometimes PC is right, sometimes it's completely off. We need to distinguish one 'idea' from the next and make up our individual minds on every incident.

I rail on endlessly against racism... have for longer than as an ATS member, but I will respect any person's opinion that doesn't jibe with mine. I'll say what I think is right and call out what I find contemptible.

Isn't that the best way?

a reply to: Indigo5

Yeah I think these anti-PC people don't understand that some people are just born that way. There will always be PC ppl you can't stop it. But there will always be anti-PC people as well. You guys give too Mich credit to people who are just tweeting what they feel. Who cares if some people happen to agree with them it's their opinion KEYWORD opinion. There is also anti-PC people who are just as vicious or even straight up Nazis who believe in white genocide neither side is good.

Again...I'd suggest the solution is to stop placing so much value in what the "twittersphere"? Is that a word? is outraged about.

It has always been so...Keep an open mind, but stop being "outraged" at the "outrage"...isn't that an "outrage" self circle jerk?

Or to go all Kipling on you...

If you can keep your head when all about you

Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,

If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,

But make allowance for their doubting too;

I'm not outraged, I'm defending a principal of freedom that means something to me. So much of my life is dedicated toward self expression, I won't have it undone by anti-intellectual movement of knee jerk censorship. I'll take heated debates over a hive mind any day.

You say go beyond the twitter sphere, but if everyone in the world is connecting online, then the prevailing ideas on the internet are important. If the prevailing idea is watch what you say, I'm not in favor of it. I favor teaching people the value of self-worth. I like freedom. We have to remain principled in it's defense.

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: masqua
a reply to: mahatche

So... basically what you're saying is that the media is the source of 'Professional Outrage'? I'd agree with that completely.

That's why we all need to stop watching the media that agrees with what we 'believe' and start checking out those media we disagree with as well.

It's the old notion of being spoon fed cold mush, told it's strawberry ice cream and trusting it to be true.

The media plays a major part in it. There is no denying the media pushes agendas.

The other part is social media. Social media changed things. Now stances come with a lot more social pressure, and everyone you know can see them. Everyone has the most unreasonable public images where they do their best to convince the people around them that they are saints, everyone knows they are wretched self centered assholes, but we go along with it. It used to be easier to keep it to your self, or limit it to people you respect as thinkers, now no one wants to be the guy who goes viral for saying the wrong things. No one wants to be shamed in front of everyone they know. No one wants to lose their job, but that's now a tool in the outraged activist tool box. It's inanity. I'm not on the wrong side.

The government seems to be on the worse side of PC. When I was in the Navy, we were banned from using the term "flip chart" when giving lectures because the term "flip chart" may be offensive to Philippinos even though I've never met a person from the Philippines that did not understand that the term referenced the type of chart that one "flipped" over. PC is one of the lowest forms of poor intelligence and lack common sense. It is the refuge of those who cannot think.

originally posted by: masqua
a reply to: mahatche

I get what you're saying... I really do. This is why i posted about the PC crowd killing off old Socrates.

But I also mentioned the Suffragette Movement, which was totally and completely a PC idea.

Sometimes PC is right, sometimes it's completely off. We need to distinguish one 'idea' from the next and make up our individual minds on every incident.

I rail on endlessly against racism... have for longer than as an ATS member, but I will respect any person's opinion that doesn't jibe with mine. I'll say what I think is right and call out what I find contemptible.

Isn't that the best way?

The Suffragette movement was not PC. They were an "in our face I don't care what you think" movement. Political correctness is cultural Marxism that selects what is and is not appropriate to say and punishes those who stray out of the lines.

originally posted by: mahatche

Again...I'd suggest the solution is to stop placing so much value in what the "twittersphere"? Is that a word? is outraged about.

It has always been so...Keep an open mind, but stop being "outraged" at the "outrage"...isn't that an "outrage" self circle jerk?

Or to go all Kipling on you...

If you can keep your head when all about you

Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,

If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,

But make allowance for their doubting too;

I'm not outraged, I'm defending a principal of freedom that means something to me. So much of my life is dedicated toward self expression, I won't have it undone by anti-intellectual movement of knee jerk censorship. I'll take heated debates over a hive mind any day.

What "principal of freedom" has been compromised in the least? Our opinions have ALWAYS been protected by government, but also open to being attacked by OTHER PEOPLE's OPINIONS...which are also protected by government.

Always been so..

No one's freedom of speech or expression is made less by other's people's opinions.

To demand not to be challenged...or to demand that the public at large agree with you...is to demand their freedom of opinion or expression be limited.

originally posted by: masqua
a reply to: mahatche

I get what you're saying... I really do. This is why i posted about the PC crowd killing off old Socrates.

But I also mentioned the Suffragette Movement, which was totally and completely a PC idea.

Sometimes PC is right, sometimes it's completely off. We need to distinguish one 'idea' from the next and make up our individual minds on every incident.

I rail on endlessly against racism... have for longer than as an ATS member, but I will respect any person's opinion that doesn't jibe with mine. I'll say what I think is right and call out what I find contemptible.

Isn't that the best way?

That's exactly what I'm defending. context and nuance. I'm in favor of treating people well, while also being passionately opposed to thought policing. The two are separable. Coddling isn't the only option. I've been openly Bisexual as long as I've posted here, but I also oppose many of the whiny opportunists in the LGBT circles. My principals will not allow me to silence someone for saying I'm wrong. I will debate them, but the entitlement activism is making it difficult for me to respect them intellectually. The entitlement generation has discovered activism, that's all it is. They were buffed up with their last place trophies their entire life, now they can't handle the bumps. It's an exaggerated response.

We are to the point were anti-PC police people are automatically categorized as privileged assholes who just want to be mean cause they are in the majority. I disagree. I have no interest in being mean, I'm far from a dominate majority member, I'm at the bottom of the respected totem pole.

What "principal of freedom" has been compromised in the least? Our opinions have ALWAYS been protected by government, but also open to being attacked by OTHER PEOPLE's OPINIONS...which are also protected by government.

Always been so..

No one's freedom of speech or expression is made less by other's people's opinions.

To demand not to be challenged...or to demand that the public at large agree with you...is to demand their freedom of opinion or expression be limited.

Again, I'm not the one writing letters to people's bosses, I don't have activists groups shouting people down. I don't have ever growing block lists that I distribute across the internet to silence dissenting opinions. I don't have pundits working in the media to push my agenda. I don't subvert the standard of acceptable discussions on college campuses. I don't dox people. I've done nothing to pressure groups away from their opinions in mass.

What I have done is taken the unpopular opinion of the freedom to say what you want, and defended it. I defend comedians saying gay jokes about me, Hispanic jokes, fat jokes, poor people jokes, etc.. they all apply to me and I enjoy them. My support for free speech shouldn't be twisted into an attack against it. Yea we both have our right to our opinion, but their opinion has powerful political movements behind them, it's beyond two individuals having opinions, one side is actively pursuing censorship. I've never done such a thing, my views are much more consistent with freedom.

originally posted by: NavyDoc
The Suffragette movement was not PC. They were an "in our face I don't care what you think" movement. Political correctness is cultural Marxism that selects what is and is not appropriate to say and punishes those who stray out of the lines.

I agree in part.

The political stance of the day was against the women who marched. At that time, it was PC. Today, the fight goes on for equal rights, but the women's vote is now established. Think of the rampant outrage that must have existed back in those days, with moustached men in bowlers raising their fists and shouting at the defiant women marching in the streets.

To stand against the vote for women today would be seen as radically anti-PC... a complete turnaround in a century.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: masqua
a reply to: mahatche

So... basically what you're saying is that the media is the source of 'Professional Outrage'? I'd agree with that completely.

That's why we all need to stop watching the media that agrees with what we 'believe' and start checking out those media we disagree with as well.

It's the old notion of being spoon fed cold mush, told it's strawberry ice cream and trusting it to be true.

The media plays a major part in it. There is no denying the media pushes agendas.

The other part is social media. Social media changed things. Now stances come with a lot more social pressure, and everyone you know can see them. Everyone has the most unreasonable public images where they do their best to convince the people around them that they are saints, everyone knows they are wretched self centered assholes, but we go along with it. It used to be easier to keep it to your self, or limit it to people you respect as thinkers, now no one wants to be the guy who goes viral for saying the wrong things. No one wants to be shamed in front of everyone they know. No one wants to lose their job, but that's now a tool in the outraged activist tool box. It's inanity. I'm not on the wrong side.

The government seems to be on the worse side of PC.

...

PC is one of the lowest forms of poor intelligence and lack common sense. It is the refuge of those who cannot think.

The nature of government means they have to account for everyone...and as the nightly news proves we not always a nation full of Einstein's.

That is the premise of laws and everything else about government...Most people know it is wrong to steal, but we need laws to articulate the thousand different forms of theft...whilst most people would just say that's wrong.

Yes...the laws need to be wordy and specific and cover the lowest common denominator.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: masqua
a reply to: mahatche

So... basically what you're saying is that the media is the source of 'Professional Outrage'? I'd agree with that completely.

That's why we all need to stop watching the media that agrees with what we 'believe' and start checking out those media we disagree with as well.

It's the old notion of being spoon fed cold mush, told it's strawberry ice cream and trusting it to be true.

The media plays a major part in it. There is no denying the media pushes agendas.

The other part is social media. Social media changed things. Now stances come with a lot more social pressure, and everyone you know can see them. Everyone has the most unreasonable public images where they do their best to convince the people around them that they are saints, everyone knows they are wretched self centered assholes, but we go along with it. It used to be easier to keep it to your self, or limit it to people you respect as thinkers, now no one wants to be the guy who goes viral for saying the wrong things. No one wants to be shamed in front of everyone they know. No one wants to lose their job, but that's now a tool in the outraged activist tool box. It's inanity. I'm not on the wrong side.

The government seems to be on the worse side of PC.

...

PC is one of the lowest forms of poor intelligence and lack common sense. It is the refuge of those who cannot think.

The nature of government means they have to account for everyone...and as the nightly news proves we not always a nation full of Einstein's.

That is the premise of laws and everything else about government...Most people know it is wrong to steal, but we need laws to articulate the thousand different forms of theft...whilst most people would just say that's wrong.

Yes...the laws need to be wordy and specific and cover the lowest common denominator.

No. The whole nature of PC is deciding what is and what is not acceptable, most often by arbitrary measures. It is not about trying nor does it even seek to achieve everyone being equal. By it's very nature, some awful things are acceptable under PC whereas thing that are quite innocuous are not.

originally posted by: masqua

originally posted by: NavyDoc
The Suffragette movement was not PC. They were an "in our face I don't care what you think" movement. Political correctness is cultural Marxism that selects what is and is not appropriate to say and punishes those who stray out of the lines.

I agree in part.

The political stance of the day was against the women who marched. At that time, it was PC. Today, the fight goes on for equal rights, but the women's vote is now established. Think of the rampant outrage that must have existed back in those days, with moustached men in bowlers raising their fists and shouting at the defiant women marching in the streets.

To stand against the vote for women today would be seen as radically anti-PC... a complete turnaround in a century.

No. PC has never been about the "underrepresented" in the US. It has always been about what some sensitive bureaucrats think is offensive.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: masqua
a reply to: mahatche

So... basically what you're saying is that the media is the source of 'Professional Outrage'? I'd agree with that completely.

That's why we all need to stop watching the media that agrees with what we 'believe' and start checking out those media we disagree with as well.

It's the old notion of being spoon fed cold mush, told it's strawberry ice cream and trusting it to be true.

The media plays a major part in it. There is no denying the media pushes agendas.

The other part is social media. Social media changed things. Now stances come with a lot more social pressure, and everyone you know can see them. Everyone has the most unreasonable public images where they do their best to convince the people around them that they are saints, everyone knows they are wretched self centered assholes, but we go along with it. It used to be easier to keep it to your self, or limit it to people you respect as thinkers, now no one wants to be the guy who goes viral for saying the wrong things. No one wants to be shamed in front of everyone they know. No one wants to lose their job, but that's now a tool in the outraged activist tool box. It's inanity. I'm not on the wrong side.

The government seems to be on the worse side of PC.

...

PC is one of the lowest forms of poor intelligence and lack common sense. It is the refuge of those who cannot think.

The nature of government means they have to account for everyone...and as the nightly news proves we not always a nation full of Einstein's.

That is the premise of laws and everything else about government...Most people know it is wrong to steal, but we need laws to articulate the thousand different forms of theft...whilst most people would just say that's wrong.

Yes...the laws need to be wordy and specific and cover the lowest common denominator.

No. The whole nature of PC is deciding what is and what is not acceptable, most often by arbitrary measures. It is not about trying nor does it even seek to achieve everyone being equal. By it's very nature, some awful things are acceptable under PC whereas thing that are quite innocuous are not.

I forgot how you move goalposts in debate...

Uh...Ok...Your last post was about Gov and PC...that is what I responded to..

originally posted by: [post=19555316]NavyDoc

The government seems to be on the worse side of PC.

Which IS in fact about equality..

Note to self, not to engage with certain posters as they change the topic every post?

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: masqua
a reply to: mahatche

So... basically what you're saying is that the media is the source of 'Professional Outrage'? I'd agree with that completely.

That's why we all need to stop watching the media that agrees with what we 'believe' and start checking out those media we disagree with as well.

It's the old notion of being spoon fed cold mush, told it's strawberry ice cream and trusting it to be true.

The media plays a major part in it. There is no denying the media pushes agendas.

The other part is social media. Social media changed things. Now stances come with a lot more social pressure, and everyone you know can see them. Everyone has the most unreasonable public images where they do their best to convince the people around them that they are saints, everyone knows they are wretched self centered assholes, but we go along with it. It used to be easier to keep it to your self, or limit it to people you respect as thinkers, now no one wants to be the guy who goes viral for saying the wrong things. No one wants to be shamed in front of everyone they know. No one wants to lose their job, but that's now a tool in the outraged activist tool box. It's inanity. I'm not on the wrong side.

The government seems to be on the worse side of PC.

...

PC is one of the lowest forms of poor intelligence and lack common sense. It is the refuge of those who cannot think.

The nature of government means they have to account for everyone...and as the nightly news proves we not always a nation full of Einstein's.

That is the premise of laws and everything else about government...Most people know it is wrong to steal, but we need laws to articulate the thousand different forms of theft...whilst most people would just say that's wrong.

Yes...the laws need to be wordy and specific and cover the lowest common denominator.

No. The whole nature of PC is deciding what is and what is not acceptable, most often by arbitrary measures. It is not about trying nor does it even seek to achieve everyone being equal. By it's very nature, some awful things are acceptable under PC whereas thing that are quite innocuous are not.

I forgot how you move goalposts in debate...

Uh...Ok...Your last post was about Gov and PC...that is what I responded to..

originally posted by: [post=19555316]NavyDoc

The government seems to be on the worse side of PC.

Which IS in fact about equality..

Note to self, not to engage with certain posters as they change the topic every post?

I didnt change a single goalpost. The PC movement has been in of hypersensitivity with some things arbitrarily called more insensitive than others albg certain lines with the government being one of the biggest violaters.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: masqua
a reply to: mahatche

So... basically what you're saying is that the media is the source of 'Professional Outrage'? I'd agree with that completely.

That's why we all need to stop watching the media that agrees with what we 'believe' and start checking out those media we disagree with as well.

It's the old notion of being spoon fed cold mush, told it's strawberry ice cream and trusting it to be true.

The media plays a major part in it. There is no denying the media pushes agendas.

The other part is social media. Social media changed things. Now stances come with a lot more social pressure, and everyone you know can see them. Everyone has the most unreasonable public images where they do their best to convince the people around them that they are saints, everyone knows they are wretched self centered assholes, but we go along with it. It used to be easier to keep it to your self, or limit it to people you respect as thinkers, now no one wants to be the guy who goes viral for saying the wrong things. No one wants to be shamed in front of everyone they know. No one wants to lose their job, but that's now a tool in the outraged activist tool box. It's inanity. I'm not on the wrong side.

The government seems to be on the worse side of PC.

...

PC is one of the lowest forms of poor intelligence and lack common sense. It is the refuge of those who cannot think.

The nature of government means they have to account for everyone...and as the nightly news proves we not always a nation full of Einstein's.

That is the premise of laws and everything else about government...Most people know it is wrong to steal, but we need laws to articulate the thousand different forms of theft...whilst most people would just say that's wrong.

Yes...the laws need to be wordy and specific and cover the lowest common denominator.

No. The whole nature of PC is deciding what is and what is not acceptable, most often by arbitrary measures. It is not about trying nor does it even seek to achieve everyone being equal. By it's very nature, some awful things are acceptable under PC whereas thing that are quite innocuous are not.

I forgot how you move goalposts in debate...

Uh...Ok...Your last post was about Gov and PC...that is what I responded to..

originally posted by: [post=19555316]NavyDoc

The government seems to be on the worse side of PC.

Which IS in fact about equality..

Note to self, not to engage with certain posters as they change the topic every post?

I didnt change a single goalpost. The PC movement has been in of hypersensitivity with some things arbitrarily called more insensitive than others albg certain lines with the government being one of the biggest violaters.

That member used the same phrase in a post to me. In response to a discussion I was having with another member ?

I have no idea what it's motivation is so I chose not to engage it.

originally posted by: Greathouse

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: masqua
a reply to: mahatche

So... basically what you're saying is that the media is the source of 'Professional Outrage'? I'd agree with that completely.

That's why we all need to stop watching the media that agrees with what we 'believe' and start checking out those media we disagree with as well.

It's the old notion of being spoon fed cold mush, told it's strawberry ice cream and trusting it to be true.

The media plays a major part in it. There is no denying the media pushes agendas.

The other part is social media. Social media changed things. Now stances come with a lot more social pressure, and everyone you know can see them. Everyone has the most unreasonable public images where they do their best to convince the people around them that they are saints, everyone knows they are wretched self centered assholes, but we go along with it. It used to be easier to keep it to your self, or limit it to people you respect as thinkers, now no one wants to be the guy who goes viral for saying the wrong things. No one wants to be shamed in front of everyone they know. No one wants to lose their job, but that's now a tool in the outraged activist tool box. It's inanity. I'm not on the wrong side.

The government seems to be on the worse side of PC.

...

PC is one of the lowest forms of poor intelligence and lack common sense. It is the refuge of those who cannot think.

The nature of government means they have to account for everyone...and as the nightly news proves we not always a nation full of Einstein's.

That is the premise of laws and everything else about government...Most people know it is wrong to steal, but we need laws to articulate the thousand different forms of theft...whilst most people would just say that's wrong.

Yes...the laws need to be wordy and specific and cover the lowest common denominator.

No. The whole nature of PC is deciding what is and what is not acceptable, most often by arbitrary measures. It is not about trying nor does it even seek to achieve everyone being equal. By it's very nature, some awful things are acceptable under PC whereas thing that are quite innocuous are not.

I forgot how you move goalposts in debate...

Uh...Ok...Your last post was about Gov and PC...that is what I responded to..

originally posted by: [post=19555316]NavyDoc

The government seems to be on the worse side of PC.

Which IS in fact about equality..

Note to self, not to engage with certain posters as they change the topic every post?

I didnt change a single goalpost. The PC movement has been in of hypersensitivity with some things arbitrarily called more insensitive than others albg certain lines with the government being one of the biggest violaters.

That member used the same phrase in a post to me. In response to a discussion I was having with another member ?

I have no idea what it's motivation is so I chose not to engage it.

It is the response of one without an intellectual arguement.

a reply to: NavyDoc


I'm in the same position sometimes. But at least I try to change my euphemisms up .

I have no idea what it's motivation is so I chose not to engage it.

I was really hoping you noticed my wording in my second paragraph . I'm pondering a tactic to counter political correctness .


Wouldn't it be completely legal to offend and aggressively assault someone verbally using only politically correct wordage ????????



Talk about a paradox ! Lol