Abortion and why it's wrong

originally posted by: babybunnies
This is a personal opinion, not a topic for ATS.

Remember when ATS used to be a site for conspiracy theories?

And isn't it a conspiracy become reality that tpbt have been, and to this day are dehumanizing HUMAN fetuses, and even babies to reach their goals of population control?

Haven't you noticed how the pro-choice crowd simply call them "fetuses" and avoid calling them "HUMAN fetus"?

Have you attempted to find how this trend started and who started it?

Not to mention that the word "fetus" is a medical word. It's another way to desensitize people and make them accept the dehumanization of HUMAN babies.

Mothers who love their children which are still growing in their womb call them "their BABIES". They don't call them "their human fetuses"...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I read it. It's a fallacy. Your insurance premiums pay for your insurance policy, nobody else's. What other people do with their insurance coverage is not your business.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Haven't you noticed how the pro-choice crowd simply call them "fetuses" and avoid calling them "HUMAN fetus"?

LOL

Haven't you noticed that they never refer to the pregnant woman as a HUMAN! Of course it's human, what else would it be. A human fetus came from a human egg and a human sperm and is gestating within the human uterus of a human woman.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I read it. It's a fallacy. Your insurance premiums pay for your insurance policy, nobody else's. What other people do with their insurance coverage is not your business.

WRONG, that's not what Obamacare is about...

The fallacy is you not understanding that the plans that cover abortion do pay for the abortions of others. If you agree to pay for a plan that covers elective abortion you have no choice for what abortions those funds are used...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

since when does people have any choice as to just what the funds we pay to an insurance company is used for once they get the money???
meanwhile, back in the real world, where people actually have to get insurance coverage without any gov't assistance whatsoever.....people are taking whatever crappy insurance policy their employer is providing and well, being grateful if they can find a way to even be able to obtain health care when it's needed after they pay the premiums!!

a reply to: dawnstar

heck it wouldn't surprise me if the insurance companies weren't using the money we were paying them to gamble in the derivatives markets before the housing crash and well.... that's why we ended up with obamacare to begin with!! the danged insurance companies needed a bailout!

a reply to: windword

Your insurance premiums pay for your insurance policy, not other people's insurance policies.

Your premiums pay for other people's insurance claims...it's the way it works, and has for a very long time.

Insurance companies basically do three things with the premium dollar. First, they pool the money to pay claims.

How Insurance Works

What is insurance?

Insurance basically involves a group of people agreeing to share risks. It is a very old idea which started back when sailing ships got destroyed or lost their cargoes. Merchants found that by dividing their cargoes among several boats, they protected themselves from total financial ruin. That way, if one of the boats was destroyed, no merchant lost everything. Each stood to lose only a small portion.

Paying other people's claims

a reply to: Seamrog

Nice straw-man, but the only one framing an argument this way is you. I could easily say 'clearly, no matter how logical, the pro-murder crowd is never going to sway the 'human life is more important than fat ankles crowd.'

No one has even remotely suggested that edema around the ankles is a reasonable cause for abortion. That was included in one person's account of things that suck about being pregnant, and how we do it anyway despite that and other discomforts, therefore it is outrageous for someone who cannot or has not experienced that to try and dictate what another should do with her own body.

It is truly a testament to how pathetic a person really is by how, when put on the spot and in the absence of any intelligent rebuttals, he/she/it will just continue to focus on on the tiniest little thing, even if it isn't true, and bring it out over and over, and over and over, ad nauseam...even after being reminded just as many times how completely ridiculous an over-exaggeration it is. I pity insignificant people like that, bless their little hearts. I think they need to be voted off the island. Don't you?

originally posted by: windword

LOL

Haven't you noticed that they never refer to the pregnant woman as a HUMAN! Of course it's human, what else would it be. A human fetus came from a human egg and a human sperm and is gestating within the human uterus of a human woman.

Except that a woman can't be a dog, and there are fetuses from dogs, dolphins, and other animals...

When you call a human fetus simply as a fetus it is an attempt to give less meaning to that human life form.

If you actually listen to the speeches made in "pro-life" marches, and by intellectuals that are pro-choice, among other things, they use the word "fetus" by itself for a reason. Eventually the more and more people like you simply hear the word "fetus" you come to think of it as "less than a human life"...

You can see how the desensitization has been obviously accepted more so among those people who claim that a human fetus is "like a virus"...

It's how the human brain works, and a lot of people don't realize this, that the use of certain words without giving an specific identification is a way to desensitize people and make them more likeable to accept such an argument.

I'll give you as an example the case of the student/students that told dozens and dozens of people in a University that there was a substance called "dihydrogen monoxide" that could kill people, and had a long list of problems it could cause hence it needed to be banned, and many people signed the form not knowing that it was water.

If you present an argument with certain words, using different words depending if you want people to be desensitized or more sensitive to your argument, to define that concept; if you use an exaggerated analysis with unfounded fears, and with half truths more people will agree with your argument because of the way the human brain works.

a reply to: dawnstar

It's a shame the compassionate conservatives can't hear the cry of the living children who have actual mouths to cry out with, but can hear the cries of unborn fetuses who's mouths have not even formed yet.

That is an excellent post. Seriously, you could not possibly have worded that any better...gave me chills.

and I'm sorry but an 8 week fetus (which is when more of the abortions take place I do believe)
doesn't seem to have many of the characteristics of a human life, does it? It can't come when called, it can't decide what it wants for supper, heck it can't even comprehend that it needs food to survive!
a happy medium needs to be found between the two groups or the discussing is pointless.
but well people griping about having to provide insurance coverage for birth control and the morning after pill because it's murder in their eyes is far from them medium...
and heck to be honest with you,
I was told tough crap while I was laying around my house with my ankle was in a splint and couldn't couldn't find the money for the thousands of dollars the doctor wanted as a down payment to set it...
and I am being told tough crap now when the problem that caused the broken ankle has left me quite frankly unable to many of the jobs available and my husband is passed on leaving me with absolutely no income! I fail to see why in heaven's name, if I do happen to get back on my feet before I am left homeless and starving, I should have to be responsible to subsidizing that lady's healthcare on the exchange anyways, or her kids if she happens to have any!

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Haven't you noticed how the pro-choice crowd simply call them "fetuses" and avoid calling them "HUMAN fetus"?

Did it happen to occur to you that perhaps it should not be necessary during a debate of this complexity to remind people of something so obvious? That it would be common sense that we are referring to HUMAN fetuses and not what...pig fetuses, bunny fetuses, alpaca fetuses?

Have you attempted to find how this trend started and who started it?

You seem to think this is all news or something...this is no "trend". But we've already had this conversation.

Mothers who love their children which are still growing in their womb call them "their BABIES". They don't call them "their human fetuses"...

Now you have a problem with them being called human fetuses? Make up your mind, before you confuse yourself even more.

They are not babies until they are able to breathe on their own after leaving the womb. They are fetuses or embryos until that point. And some people have simply had so many miscarriages that they refuse to say the word "baby" when referring to their fetuses, because the emotional impact won't be as bad if they don't personalize it first, should the pregnancy not have a positive outcome.

Not to mention that the word "fetus" is a medical word. It's another way to desensitize people and make them accept the dehumanization of HUMAN babies.

Or maybe...just maybe...it is used because it is an accurate word. If it's not living outside the womb and breathing on its own, it is not a "baby". It is a fetus.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse


When you call a human fetus simply as a fetus it is an attempt to give less meaning to that human life form.

The word foetus is used because it is the correct technical/medical

term for an unborn baby that is unable to survive outside of the woman's body.

If you actually listen to the speeches made in "pro-life" marches, and by intellectuals that are pro-choice, among other things, they use the word "fetus" by itself for a reason. Eventually the more and more people like you simply hear the word "fetus" you come to think of it as "less than a human life"...

You can see how the desensitization has been obviously accepted more so among those people who claim that a human fetus is "like a virus"...

It's how the human brain works, and a lot of people don't realize this, that the use of certain words without giving an specific identification is a way to desensitize people and make them more likeable to accept such an argument.

Are you a Neuropsychologist?

If you present an argument with certain words, using different words depending if you want people to be desensitized or more sensitive to your argument, to define that concept; if you use an exaggerated analysis with unfounded fears, and with half truths more people will agree with your argument because of the way the human brain works.

Refer... ^^^^^^^^^ Patronising much

the same could be said about the right to life crowd insisting it's a baby right after conception,
wouldn't they be playing the same mind game?

a reply to: windword

Oh so instead of throwing it in a garbage can in the room and leaving it to die, it gets ground up and thrown into a container with the bio-hazard insignia on it. Or better yet they harvest it for "medical" purposes.

I would say we have progressed too.

a reply to: TechUnique

3,000 abortions per day

Out of curiosity how many of those 3,000 abortions per day are pro-lifers adopting?

The problem I see with the pro life people is the hypocrisy.

They tell everyone to have all these unwanted kids and then turn their back on them when its time to take care of them and to take responsibility.

Then they look the other way as these poor kids are put into a less then ideal system, or even worst raced by unloving wanting parents as they experience years of traumatic situations. Then when these kids turn 18 and become less than ideal citizens, many of the pro-lifers are the first to want to put them in jail for life or give them the death penalty.

I'm not saying abortion is the right thing for everyone or its a good thing but perhaps the issue isn't as clear as they make it sound.

There are consequences to living a life of misery that while not all experience many do.

I'm fortunate to have never been placed in a situation that I had to make that decision nor do I think I could do it my self. However, I'm not blind from seeing the consequences nor the hypocrisy of some that are quick to condemn.

IMO life is not about quantity but rather quality. I'm not saying that all these unwanted kids become criminals and live a life of prison , but life is hard enough and these poor kids are thrown to the wolves to defend for themselves from the first breath they take. Then society turns a blind eye to them as they become older.

I don't have the solution but perhaps the pro-lifers should step up their commitments to ensure every unwanted kid has a loving parent waiting to adopt them , before taking the easy route of condemning others and bailing when its time to take actions.

The system can barely keep up with the existing unwanted or abandon children of today, I can't imagine what it would do with an additional 3,000 per day.

Again. I'm not happy to see abortions nor I think its the right answer to a very difficult situation. However . I also don't think that screaming every life is valuable from the top of your lungs and then looking the other way when its time to take responsibility is right either.

IMO Abortions shouldn't be a form of birth control but I do see when it might be appropriate for certain cases. Then again I'm not against euthanasia either and I put quality of life above most things.

originally posted by: tigertatzen

They are not babies until they are able to breathe on their own after leaving the womb. They are fetuses or embryos until that point. And some people have simply had so many miscarriages that they refuse to say the word "baby" when referring to their fetuses, because the emotional impact won't be as bad if they don't personalize it first, should the pregnancy not have a positive outcome.
...

Didn't it occur to you that this is what I am referring to?...

Of course it is in everyone's mind that they are talking about human fetus, but if you don't say it, if you don't remind people that those fetuses are HUMAN, it makes it easier to make all these claims about them "being like viruses" or "they are not the same as a human being"... etc, etc...

And it is not just about personalizing, but to dehumanize the HUMAN fetus, make it "less than HUMAN".

a reply to: dawnstar

Except that THEY ARE HUMAN FETUSES... It's not a mind game... The mind game is trying to proclaim that they are not, and trying to claim that they are like viruses and not a human being.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Late term abortions, where the lungs are developed enough for crying, are very rare. They're done when the doctor's have determined that the fetus is "incompatible with life" and its distress is creating a situation that's threatening the life of the mother.

Always a sad situation.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse
yes human fetus which the prolife crowd insist on calling babies, even when referring to the abortion via the morning after pill.

interesting story for all to read, if they wish.

gawker.com...