Your genetically-enhanced, cyborg future.

From AD 1 to the late 19th Century humans pretty much lived, ate and reproduced as they had since the days of Noah. In the late 19th Century artificial insemination techniques were discovered - a pretty simple procedure in our way of thinking today, but monumental then. In the late 1970s we had IVF come along, and in this century we have the technology, just not the public support, yet, for engineering out disabilities, low IQ, etc. Yet what do you suppose will be developed in the next twenty or so years? Will we indeed "merge with machines" in a profound, cyborg, manner? Will we produce children rather than reproduce them? If you were frozen for 50 years and brought back would you recognize humanity, or would these people look upon you as an outdated relic of times past?

What are your predictions for what life will be like in 2030, 2040 and beyond? You think it will be a glorious future or the ultimate dystopia?

a reply to: edward777

Well, one of my best buddies has a medical implant near his spine which prevents signals from damaged nerves, from reaching receptors else where in the communications network of his body, so he is technically a cyborg of sorts right now. He has to charge himself up every eight to ten hours, and has several settings to help mitigate differing levels of pain.

There are pacemakers and other implanted technologies coming on stream now which will, in the fullness of time become capable of sending telemetry to a doctors office, or to a network of medical information, for the purpose of improving the speed and effectiveness of critical care given to a patient fitted with the device, or to alert the patients doctor to any untoward change in a patients vitals or what have you.

The day is not coming. For all intents and purposes, it has arrived.

Yes, it has. Yet it is still in its infancy. I would say, for instance, that prosthetic legs and arms of today will be seen as being as primitive in 20 years as we see a peg leg on a pirate figure today. In fact, in time don't you think people will voluntarily have healthy legs and arms removed so they can have superior designer limbs? Same may occur with organs.

a reply to: edward777

You are right to say that even the most advanced prosthesis we have today, will likely appear as no more interesting than a hand carved chunk of wood to the residents of the future. However I do not believe that it is in any way certain that in the future, people will have limbs removed so that more powerful, more adaptive and versatile limbs can be put in place of them. I believe that by the time where this would be desirable, there will be nano machinery which can alter the construction of a pre-existing limb, and entire skeletal structure, in order to provide the user with an adaptive, versatile, augmentation to their bodies, without the need for amputation.

For example, fibre bundle muscle augmentations grown and grafted directly onto muscle by nano machines, could enable a user to jump higher, run faster, work harder, while another group of nano machines cover the skeletal system in a complex mesh of carbon nanotubes so that they are not destroyed by the increased stresses resulting from the up tick in muscle power. Tendons and ligaments could also be augmented to optimise them for the new power and stress tolerances they would be under.

The very skin of the body itself could be augmented to prevent burns, reduce radiation penetration, or retain heat in the event of cold atmospheres. Eye function could be augmented by nano machines printing new cones or rods in the eye, extra ones. This could lead to human beings becoming routinely capable of tetra chromatic vision for example. We will reach that point before people start whacking limbs off just to get metal replacements.

a reply to: edward777

All I know, you can expect the military to take full advantage of this technology. The six million dollar man comes to mind.

This kind of tech is bad for regular people whom are not part of the true "Owners of Capital" class because tech will ONLY be used to further our indentured servitude.

How is that you may ask? Remember when cell phones were actually fun?

I do, the phone was a huge and needed to be carried in a bag, BUT my boss NEVER called me on it, after what was considered typical work hours and certainly never to ask me to do more work while I was at home. Compare that to today, when a cell phone in your pocket can spontaneously generate more work to be done outside of the office, simply because someone higher up than you had a random thought at midnight.

How does this scenario play into life-extension tech, AI and the Singularity?

Right now, most Americans are expected to and are coerced by employment requirements to buy/finance a car, buy/finance education, buy/finance healthcare, buy/finance insurance and eventually buy/finance a home of some kind. What do you think the "Owners of Capital" will do when life-extension tech and AI become mainstream commercial products?

They will simply coerce people to buy and subsidize these tech products/services, even if the recipient doesn't want to have the procedure done or doesn't want to buy the AI device, AND, the methods used to coerce the general populace in the United States, will not require any additional lobbying or law changes introduced by the "Owners of Capital".

Imagine a world where life-extension and AI tech is sold and financed to regular people, over long repayment periods, to people that don't have the ability to pay for it, in cash, up front. Similar to a cars, education or home mortgages today.

Want to opt-out? Sure you have the "choice" to do anything you want. We are a "free country" after all. BUT, imagine for a moment, the unfolding of the following fictional scenarios, resulting from a person "choosing" to NOT have the life-extension procedure or refusing to buy a self driving AI car:

Do you want health insurance? Sorry, but we don't insure people whom have not had the life-extension procedure and/or don't own and AI car. However, there is another provider that we can refer you to that will, with a high deductible and high premium, so as to reduce the coverage risk due to your shorter life span and higher risk of accidents.

Want to get a job? Sorry, but we don't hire people whom have not had the life-extension procedure and/or do not have an AI car because they cost more to insure and are uninsurable in some cases. We don't consider this discrimination, however, because its no different than requiring you to have a certain model car or a driver license. Especially with the Supreme Court declaring that those refusing the life-extension procedure or use AI tech are not disabled, nor are a protected class.

Do you need a credit card or a business loan? Sorry, but we have to charge you a higher interest rate because our actuaries have found that people whom have not had the life-extension procedure and/or don't drive AI cars are a higher risk, have higher unemployment rates and have lower profit margins, due to a shorter life expectancy.

Do you need a bank account or cell/internet/communication service plan? Sorry, but we don't open accounts to people whom have not had the life-extension procedure and/or don't drive AI cars, they cost significantly more to service, due to not being plugged directly into the system.

Need any more examples?

Remember this is America, we have no labor protection, no union representation and no access to collective bargaining. In situations like this we are sheep to be slaughtered. Mark my words, Europeans will fare MUCH better when such tech becomes reality.

When my parents were in school in the 1950's and 60's they were told: no one would have to work in the future, that everything would be done by robots and they would, in turn, have increased free time used for creating, making art, learning and helping others...

Robotics, the singularity, cell regeneration and AI are essentially the same lie, told to our parents, rehashed for a 21st century audience. I think its funny when regular people get excited about future tech like the Singularity, AI, Robotics, etc. Do people really think when these thing finally become real, functioning, working designs, applicable to industry, that we the "peons", will somehow ALL get a Data from Start Trek or a C-3PO from Star Wars, to help us at home, at the job site or in the office, etc?

In reality we are going to get a David 8 from Prometheus/Aliens or the Robot Probation officer seen in Elysium. They are going to take away jobs and make unethical policing and policy enforcement, both easier and cheaper, for the true "Owners of Capital". They won't be paying a salary to the robot worker, so the savings will instead be pumped into legal fees and political lobbying, resulting in an overall savings and good ROI for the corporations/governments and a full blown, loss of liberty, for everyone else.

Whom goes to jail when an AI robot or Mind Clone pulls your arm out of the socket? Will it be considered "negligence by the human that lost the arm", "not a criminal act", etc, in court/arbitration? I personally at this point are willing to live with 1980's +/- era tech, if it means, I am more free and can continue to earn money to live off.

Elysium Probation Officer:
fourthdimensionalrecovery.files.wordpress.com...

Introducing David 8:
www.weylandindustries.com...

In the words of David 8: “I can do almost anything that could possibly be asked of me, including things that my human counterparts might find distressing or unethical”

Also, since the rich don't really need regular people for labor, have no desire to pay us for our work and advancing AI tech soon doing most of the labor, whats left for regular people to do?

We will be the "body farm" for rich people needing "head transplants" and our filed away DNA profiles will tell them EXACTLY whom will be the "best match" at any given time. This DNA will also tell then whom will be the most healthy donors, with the least inherited health problems.

Also don't think the courts will be providing any "due process" if "head transplants" becomes a real thing.

For example, lets say that someone like Mark Zuckerberg needs a head transplant in 2055, when this tech has fully matured, with the United States having the DNA of every citizen on file and YOU happen to be the best DNA match for Mark's head. Do you believe they will "ask your permission" to donate your body, for HIS need?

Of course they won't, they will jail you on trumped up charges and will have laws in the future that will eliminate your right to deny such uses of your body. You will be turned into a ward of the state, at their discretion, to use as they please. Mark Zuckerberg's life to the state and corporate America is worth FAR, FAR, more than any of us.

All sounds swell, don't it!

The only way regular people can save themselves, NOW, is to abandon tech, physically impede tech research and stop buying/supporting companies making this AI/singularity tech.

First, AI is going to make regular people jobless
Second, it is going to steal what few liberties and freedoms we have left
Third, it will make human life valueless to the true "Owners of Capital", many of whom are Fascists

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: edward777

You are right to say that even the most advanced prosthesis we have today, will likely appear as no more interesting than a hand carved chunk of wood to the residents of the future. However I do not believe that it is in any way certain that in the future, people will have limbs removed so that more powerful, more adaptive and versatile limbs can be put in place of them. I believe that by the time where this would be desirable, there will be nano machinery which can alter the construction of a pre-existing limb, and entire skeletal structure, in order to provide the user with an adaptive, versatile, augmentation to their bodies, without the need for amputation.

For example, fibre bundle muscle augmentations grown and grafted directly onto muscle by nano machines, could enable a user to jump higher, run faster, work harder, while another group of nano machines cover the skeletal system in a complex mesh of carbon nanotubes so that they are not destroyed by the increased stresses resulting from the up tick in muscle power. Tendons and ligaments could also be augmented to optimise them for the new power and stress tolerances they would be under.

The very skin of the body itself could be augmented to prevent burns, reduce radiation penetration, or retain heat in the event of cold atmospheres. Eye function could be augmented by nano machines printing new cones or rods in the eye, extra ones. This could lead to human beings becoming routinely capable of tetra chromatic vision for example. We will reach that point before people start whacking limbs off just to get metal replacements.

Yes, adaptation may be another route for people. Truth is, nono-tech is the ultimate game-changer in regards to humans. For instance, you could change your gender or race at the cellular level. Think of how this will change the sociological aspects of human existence!

I am totally gonna go Chimera first chance i get.

# humanity, i want to be more.

Right now, most Americans are expected to and are coerced by employment requirements to buy/finance a car, buy/finance education, buy/finance healthcare, buy/finance insurance and eventually buy/finance a home of some kind. What do you think the "Owners of Capital" will do when life-extension tech and AI become mainstream commercial products?

They will simply coerce people to buy and subsidize these tech products/services, even if the recipient doesn't want to have the procedure done or doesn't want to buy the AI device, AND, the methods used to coerce the general populace in the United States, will not require any additional lobbying or law changes introduced by the "Owners of Capital".

Imagine a world where life-extension and AI tech is sold and financed to regular people, over long repayment periods, to people that don't have the ability to pay for it, in cash, up front. Similar to a cars, education or home mortgages today.

Want to opt-out? Sure you have the "choice" to do anything you want. We are a "free country" after all. BUT, imagine for a moment, the unfolding of the following fictional scenarios, resulting from a person "choosing" to NOT have the life-extension procedure or refusing to buy a self driving AI car:

Do you want health insurance? Sorry, but we don't insure people whom have not had the life-extension procedure and/or don't own and AI car. However, there is another provider that we can refer you to that will, with a high deductible and high premium, so as to reduce the coverage risk due to your shorter life span and higher risk of accidents.

To tell you the truth, I have not considered this aspect of the new technologies. People would benefit, but the price of opting out would be quite high.

Im going full cyborg first chance i get IF they do it the prosthetic body direction. Ill be able to change gender as easily eventually as putting on a suit by switching out my brain into another shell body.

originally posted by: yuppa
Im going full cyborg first chance i get IF they do it the prosthetic body direction. Ill be able to change gender as easily eventually as putting on a suit by switching out my brain into another shell body.

What does a home mortgage loan cost these days? What about student loans needed to get a 4 year degree? What's the average out of pocket cost to get cancer treatment?

Do you think "Full Cyborg" will cost more or less than these "conventional" high cost items?

Hate to burst your bubble, but "Full Cyborg" is going to cost you hundreds of thousand of dollars to own, will have a 10-30 year repayment plan/loan, will require GOOD health insurance to install, will have required monthly maintenance (deductible & co-pay please), will need "good credit" to qualify for in the first place and will need to be "insured" at least until you pay it off (like PMI).

What do you think all that will cost, per month, so you can be "Full Cyborg"?

Technological apartheid between the mega rich who can afford augmentation and will essentially become a new species.. and everybody else.

At the point that human serfs are no longer needed to provide maintenance I'd imagine they'd be done away with.

originally posted by: boohoo

originally posted by: yuppa
Im going full cyborg first chance i get IF they do it the prosthetic body direction. Ill be able to change gender as easily eventually as putting on a suit by switching out my brain into another shell body.

What does a home mortgage loan cost these days? What about student loans needed to get a 4 year degree? What's the average out of pocket cost to get cancer treatment?

Do you think "Full Cyborg" will cost more or less than these "conventional" high cost items?

Hate to burst your bubble, but "Full Cyborg" is going to cost you hundreds of thousand of dollars to own, will have a 10-30 year repayment plan/loan, will require GOOD health insurance to install, will have required monthly maintenance (deductible & co-pay please), will need "good credit" to qualify for in the first place and will need to be "insured" at least until you pay it off (like PMI).

What do you think all that will cost, per month, so you can be "Full Cyborg"?

Not if you work for the GOVERNMENT to get said body. Id gladly pull 20 yrs to get possession of the body after i retired. 20 yrs would be no time at all for your brain in a cyber shell body. Ghost in the shell is a good indicator of a possible future. Dont worry i promise ill not arrest any one from ATS if i get one.

originally posted by: yuppa
Not if you work for the GOVERNMENT to get said body. Id gladly pull 20 yrs to get possession of the body after i retired. 20 yrs would be no time at all for your brain in a cyber shell body. Ghost in the shell is a good indicator of a possible future. Dont worry i promise ill not arrest any one from ATS if i get one.

What? So you, somehow, are going to be selected for the governments upcoming "universal Soldier" program? Not a chance, they already know who the first "$6 million" man will be and it won't be you. Waiving your hand around in the crowd screaming "pick me, pick meee!" won't cut it either. Be assured, at BEST, you're on the "30 mortgage plan with PMI" if you REALLY want to be a "full cyborg", just like al the other working stiff's who wmay be forced to buy it for "employment purposes". In fact, don't be surprised if the government bills solider to get the procedure done, like they do now for haircuts, towels, uniforms, etc.

originally posted by: boohoo

originally posted by: yuppa
Not if you work for the GOVERNMENT to get said body. Id gladly pull 20 yrs to get possession of the body after i retired. 20 yrs would be no time at all for your brain in a cyber shell body. Ghost in the shell is a good indicator of a possible future. Dont worry i promise ill not arrest any one from ATS if i get one.

What? So you, somehow, are going to be selected for the governments upcoming "universal Soldier" program? Not a chance, they already know who the first "$6 million" man will be and it won't be you. Waiving your hand around in the crowd screaming "pick me, pick meee!" won't cut it either. Be assured, at BEST, you're on the "30 mortgage plan with PMI" if you REALLY want to be a "full cyborg", just like al the other working stiff's who wmay be forced to buy it for "employment purposes". In fact, don't be surprised if the government bills solider to get the procedure done, like they do now for haircuts, towels, uniforms, etc.

You forget if its just a BRAIN the body dont really matter does it? Id have no problem working off a loan to get one in whatever job if it allows me to basically live 300 yrs if i dont get my braincase holed by a AP round. Blackwater and other corporations and even police organizations will need cybernetic personnell to handle the crime that will come about with such tech. They will not be so picky as the elite forces are.

originally posted by: yuppa
You forget if its just a BRAIN the body dont really matter does it? Id have no problem working off a loan to get one in whatever job if it allows me to basically live 300 yrs if i dont get my braincase holed by a AP round. Blackwater and other corporations and even police organizations will need cybernetic personnell to handle the crime that will come about with such tech. They will not be so picky as the elite forces are.

You're dreaming, NOTHING works that way with the "military industrial complex" and second there is NO WAY the equipment is going to last 300 years, you WILL have to "maintain" it like a car, except it will also have a health insurance component. The big corporations selling this tech will nickel and dime you all the way to the grave, to the tune of tens of millions and be assured that you will BARELY be able to keep up on the monthly payments.

Do you understand that you are essentially suggesting a new type of "indentured servitude", except that you can never get your "humanity" back once you go "full cyborg"? That's the rub, most people WILL GO CRAZY once everything is installed, hence the government and big business, STRICTLY controlling who will get the procedure. Also like fighter pilots, there will be no shortage of QUALIFIED people, BUT qualifying will still be difficult or impossible for the majority of people.

Here is a little history lesson:

For each laborer brought across the Atlantic, the master was rewarded with 50 acres of land. This system was used by wealthy plantation aristocrats to increase their land holdings dramatically. In addition, of course, they received the services of the workers for the duration of the indenture.

Servants typically worked four to seven years in exchange for passage, room, board, lodging and freedom dues. While the life of an indentured servant was harsh and restrictive, it wasn't slavery. There were laws that protected some of their rights. But their life was not an easy one, and the punishments meted out to people who wronged were harsher than those for non-servants. An indentured servant's contract could be extended as punishment for breaking a law, such as running away, or in the case of female servants, becoming pregnant.

During the time of his indenture, however, the servant was considered his master’s personal property and his contract could be inherited or sold. Prices paid for indentured servants varied depending on skills. While under contract a person could not marry or have children. A master’s permission was needed to leave the plantation, to perform work for anyone else, or to keep money for personal use. An unruly indentured servant was whipped or punished for improper behavior. Due to poor living conditions, hard labor, and difficulties adjusting to new climates and native diseases, many servants did not live to see their freedom.

a reply to: boohoo

Black market will make it necessary to equip police and other civil servants with personnell who are cyber ized. Also Im not a idiot i know it would need upkeep. Hence a contract to work and while working your matienence is covered and most likely a small salary. Your service will pay for your cyber body but if you cant finish the contract laws should be in place to allow you time to find a new job to pay on your body.

You are just afraid of change it seems.

a reply to: yuppa

Not change.
HACKING, and being stuck inside one of those things.

a reply to: boohoo

What happens when the soldier leaves service?
Initially a true cyborg would not be able to leave service as none exist outside of it.
So legally. They would own you.
For public safety.
Terminal testing,great life.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: boohoo

What happens when the soldier leaves service?
Initially a true cyborg would not be able to leave service as none exist outside of it.
So legally. They would own you.
For public safety.
Terminal testing,great life.

Well they could just remove your military upgrades and you are left with a civvie model. I dont think slavery would fly well.And if cyborg tech becomes prevalent you will see cyber police as well as regular cops keeping cyborgs and regulars in line. AP rounds will become standard issue to when that happens.