The United Kingdom, gun control, and what it really means

a reply to: woogleuk

Good thread I appreciate the info and I also appreciate the non-judgemental attitude towards us yanks.

a reply to: imod02

Interesting, i'll take lookie!

originally posted by: awareness10
a reply to: grainofsand

I would but i live in Canada land and i don't think we have one. I know that not everyone is like that but it bothers me that the powers that be are using brain washing techniques to change our reality, if that makes sense... But i must ask, are you from the X gen?

Yep I'm X Gen, and my young adult son is a Millennial.
Him and his mates ain't those pussy blokes you mention, for sure.

...and if I was Prime Minister then every boy would play/learn rugby from age 6 to 18. I'd bet all my money that our society would improve. Respect, self-control, physical fitness, all of it.

a reply to: grainofsand

I along with my cousin from the UK agree with you!

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: EvillerBob

I live in a city, Glasgow, there is pritty much no sufficient reason I can offer that allows me to own a shotgun. As to a handgun it's my understanding that if I wished to purchase one legally I would have to join a Gun club and store the weapon on there premises. All of which I would quite happily abide by.

From memory, it needs to be one of a handful of clubs approved for that purpose, and the handgun would need to meet the s7(3) criteria - in other words, not just any old handgun, it has to have some unique value to it (artistic, technical, historical) and form part of a collection. It's not cheap.

Not entirely sure if Scottishland has exactly the same rules, I'm too lazy to google it at the moment!

a reply to: Vector99

I honestly can't believe you are saying this....
Its the rationale that many members in the UK members struggle to relate to. Why after war would you need a gun? A question that has no plausible/valid answer.

Very good thread. I learned a bit about UK laws. :-)

I wonder if you could describe how the laws might be enforced, or perhaps changed, if you had the same issues with various segments of the population who insist on working outside the system in criminal realms and make their living victimizing others. In the US its no secret we have a huge gang problem and many areas, big cities and small towns, are just plain dangerous to be in. The poverty rate is out of control and many of the residents of these areas turn to crime and often violent crime as a means of financial support.

Does the UK have areas similar to those in the US? If not, how would you estimate the laws would appear should areas like that emerge?

"The whole system changed in 1920 when the firearms act was introduced, this gave the police powers to deny a firearm to anyone who was deemed unfit, and quite rightly so, the last thing they wanted was a bunch of loons, or people suffering PTSD from the war carrying these things about! "

Isn't that the same time the Irish were trying to gain thier independance from being part of the United Kingdom??
1919 o 1921? Was Ireland was still under UK laws at the time and did the passing of gun control measures have anything to do with the problems they were having in Ireland at the time?

a reply to: mash3d

Probably, but laws always have a multitude of reasons for their passing by those in control.
It's hardly a new concept.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
Does the UK have areas similar to those in the US? If not, how would you estimate the laws would appear should areas like that emerge?

We do, to an extent, but I wouldn't say it is as bad as the worst the US has to offer. Certainly, the amount of guns in those area's is limited and the amount of shootings is rare to say the least - most gang related violence is knife fights, not guns. These area's are usually restricted to certain estates in the larger cities.

The police are also usually pretty good at containing and dealing with anyone with illicit firearms.

a reply to: woogleuk

Stared and flagged my friend,

Awesome thread I for one found it pretty interesting.

I think our gun laws are fit for purpose.

a reply to: stumason

Agreed.
I know some proper dodgy bastards in my social circles who have access to illegal firearms, but most prefer to dish out a beating over a shooting. Male pride thing it seems to me.
I like that.

originally posted by: grainofsand
Yep I'm X Gen, and my young adult son is a Millennial.
Him and his mates ain't those pussy blokes you mention, for sure.

...and if I was Prime Minister then every boy would play/learn rugby from age 6 to 18. I'd bet all my money that our society would improve. Respect, self-control, physical fitness, all of it.

A good time to introduce one of my favourite quotes!

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
-Robert Heinlein

Not butchered a hog, conn'd a ship, set a bone, or died gallantly yet. I'm trying to keep that last one on hold for a few more decades

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: stumason

Agreed.
I know some proper dodgy bastards in my social circles who have access to illegal firearms, but most prefer to dish out a beating over a shooting. Male pride thing it seems to me.
I like that.

Quite - I have known some proper dodgy gits in my time too and not once have I even seen a gun amongst them, aside from an air rifle or two.

And to add, when I was assaulted in Feb, I got a sucker punch to the side of the head and stamped on. When I got up and fought back I toppled the guy onto his arse and he pulled me down, which ended up with me in a headlock on the floor on top of him as I tried to gouge his eye. He squeezed my neck and I could feel me choking, so I tapped out (don't ask me why I thought to do that) and he actually let go, at which point the fight was over.

Despite the unprovoked assault and injuries we both sustained, I did think it was reasonably honourable for him to not strangle me and let go when I asked him to!

a reply to: EvillerBob

Haha good reply!
I assume you would agree that a well composed rugby playing male would be far more preferable to hold a firearms licence than a chav lad who drinks Buckfast or White Ice cider while hanging around the corner shop.

a reply to: stumason

There is still honour in the UK when we are violent with each other.
It is why the comments of 'TrueBrit' promoting unreasonable force disappointed me somewhat.

should never have banned handguns marra

originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: Vector99

I honestly can't believe you are saying this....
Its the rationale that many members in the UK members struggle to relate to. Why after war would you need a gun? A question that has no plausible/valid answer.

What you actually mean is "no plausible/valid answer that you are prepared to accept". "Plausible, valid", along with "common sense" and "reasonable", are codewords for "I've made up my mind and refuse to listen, while pretending to hold the moral high ground." I'm sure there are plenty of UK members who aren't exactly happy for you to be putting words into their mouths.

There are over a hundred thousand (legitimate) gun owners in the UK, holding nearly 2 million firearms between them. Thousands of people shoot competitively each year in competitions held across goodness-knows how many clubs. Heck, my club just held a competition that was booked out almost immediately, with some people booking a place nearly a year in advance. That's just for the s 1 firearms. Clay Pigeon is massively popular as well.

Add on to that all the people who hold them for other reasons - game control, hunting, etc.

If "because we enjoy the sport" isn't a good reason, you might as well ban fencing, archery, martial arts, curling, high-jump... I mean, how often does the average person need to jump over a 6 foot obstacle backwards with a convenient landing mat placed on the other side? There is simply no plausible/valid answer.

a reply to: EvillerBob

Agreed, I am joining my local shooting club as I am looking at buying some land and a shotgun will be an interesting sporting pastime.
Funny though, I have a crossbow with no restrictions (vintage Barnett Commando) and I could easily kill a load of people if I wanted to.
I don't want to though, so I don't really understand the differences in legislation.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: EvillerBob

Haha good reply!
I assume you would agree that a well composed rugby playing male would be far more preferable to hold a firearms licence than a chav lad who drinks Buckfast or White Ice cider while hanging around the corner shop.

My immediate thought would be to agree with you, but actually... it depends on the individual.

If he's kept a clean nose, can meet the conditions, and can provide referees that are acceptable to the police, just as I had to, then why not? If he's joining a club then he's going to be mixing with a group of people who will strictly enforce rules and expectations. It might even be good for him.

Hanging around the cornershop drinking Buckie does rather suggest he won't be able to meet all the conditions, but if he can, then why not?