Idaho city’s ordinance tells pastors to marry gays or go to jail

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: rationalconsumer
From the Washington Times:

"Coeur d‘Alene, Idaho, city officials have laid down the law to Christian pastors within their community, telling them bluntly via an ordinance that if they refuse to marry homosexuals, they will face jail time and fines."

I am declining to provide any spin or commentary on the article. However, I will engage in the discussion once it begins.

Note [correction]: this article was from October 2014.

This seems like an illegal ordinance so they shouldn't have to do it. The only possible way I could see if this were legal were if it's a small town and the local pastor also handles all of the state paperwork for everyone as part of a volunteer program. If that were the case, that pastor would have to marry gay couples, but be permitted to do so outside of a church setting.

Anyways assuming that improbable example isn't what's going on, a case like this should be trivial to win. It would never even have to go to the SCOTUS, the state supreme court would be enough, if it could even get that far. I have a hard time seeing any judge, anywhere rule in favor of the city here.

Read the thread.

They had a for profit public marriage business.

The state has a non-discrimnation law that includes LGBTQ.

They were in violation of state law. They solved it themselves by chosing to become a non-profit church instead of a business.

a reply to: Annee

I suspect people see the title and immediately want to post how it's Illegal and the Gay progressive agenda is taking over before actually reading everything

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: Annee

I suspect people see the title and immediately want to post how it's Illegal and the Gay progressive agenda is taking over before actually reading everything

Ya think?

Why bother finding out the facts when you can blame gays.

a reply to: Annee

Why do you think Hitler is Rumored to be Gay

a reply to: intrepid

You're right! I was unable to open up the full link on my phone; too many dang advertisements!

Anyway, finally read everything and retract my statement. Businesses do NOT have the same rights as churches and are governed under different rules.

originally posted by: atslagsifnotmember
Early in Genesis, the book of beginnings, we find God’s design for marriage (Gen. 2:18-25). This text describing the original marriage is the basis for almost everything else the Bible says about marriage. It explains God’s reason for designing marriage and also gives us many principles which, if applied, will enable us to build solid, satisfying marriages which honor God.

... and later in Genesis, your god apparently ... er, changed his mind and started allowing polygamy.

Genesis 4:19
And Lamech took two wives. The name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.

Genesis 25:6
But to the sons of his concubines Abraham gave gifts, and while he was still living he sent them away from his son Isaac, eastward to the east country.

Genesis 29:15-30:24
Then Laban said to Jacob, “Because you are my kinsman, should you therefore serve me for nothing? Tell me, what shall your wages be?” Now Laban had two daughters. The name of the older was Leah, and the name of the younger was Rachel. Leah's eyes were weak, but Rachel was beautiful in form and appearance. Jacob loved Rachel. And he said, “I will serve you seven years for your younger daughter Rachel.” Laban said, “It is better that I give her to you than that I should give her to any other man; stay with me.” ...

Genesis 30:4
So she gave him her servant Bilhah as a wife, and Jacob went in to her.

Genesis 30:9
When Leah saw that she had ceased bearing children, she took her servant Zilpah and gave her to Jacob as a wife.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

LoL what Bible are you talking about?

The very same Bible. Like I said, you are not a scholar so you do not know what you are talking about. There are scholars who have studied the Bible for years and years and have stated that Christians can be gay. But anyway let's not drift this thread any further. I am here to tell you that you have no idea what you are talking about and that there are gay Christians and it doesn't go against the Bible.

I have a problem with faith hijacking

"faith"? I thought you are talking about the Bible?

You are quite correct, Christuans can be gay, they simply cannot act on it according to the Bible. The act is thoroughly condemned in the Bible.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Have you ever really looked at the structure of Romans Chapter 1?

I know that it definitely adds what seems to be homosexual practices to the list of sins, but ...

The structure of the chapter is that there were people who were following other gods besides YHVH ... or didn't give YHVH enough credit ... or whatever ...

... and YHVH "turned them over to their lusts ..." etc.

I suppose the real argument is that since humans didn't always properly honor YHVH he "turned them over" and all the lists of sins are merely a result of "not honoring god."

I guess that means folks like you and I are doubly damned ... well, at least me.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: NavyDoc

Have you ever really looked at the structure of Romans Chapter 1?

I know that it definitely adds what seems to be homosexual practices to the list of sins, but ...

The structure of the chapter is that there were people who were following other gods besides YHVH ... or didn't give YHVH enough credit ... or whatever ...

... and YHVH "turned them over to their lusts ..." etc.

I suppose the real argument is that since humans didn't always properly honor YHVH he "turned them over" and all the lists of sins are merely a result of "not honoring god."

I guess that means folks like you and I are doubly damned ... well, at least me.

The reason why I went against religion and rejected my indoctrination is that it failed the logic test.

The Bible condemns homosexual acts--it also condemns a lot of other stuff that I enjoy or think illogical to condemn which is why I don't follow it.

It boggles my mind that people would want to be part of a religion that condemns them and if one has to change the religion to suit them, what's the point of religion at all?

Just do what I did--don't bother and make your own way in life. It is much easier when you recognize that their is no imaginary man in the sky and he doesn't give a # what you do with your sexual organs.

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: Annee

Why do you think Hitler is Rumored to be Gay

Well, he was a painter and a bit of a veggie. He had that kicking moustache too.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

Just do what I did--don't bother and make your own way in life. It is much easier when you recognize that their is no imaginary man in the sky and he doesn't give a # what you do with your sexual organs.

Been there for most of my life; I completely agree with you.

(That feels so ... dirty ... to say ... )

This is one of the rare occasions I actually support the religious people. They should not be forced to perform duties that violate their religious beliefs, regardless. Since marriage is a state, and not religious institution (which was half of the reason I support gay marriage in the first place) there are plenty of options for a couple to marry. A priest or cleric is not required to marry a couple, as a judge or other major civil official can do it.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Herr Hitler may also have had a secret Disney fetish going on ...

(seems that he was a big fan of Snow White)

Did Hitler Draw Disney Characters?

a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

To my knowledge at this point, there is zero evidence of any religious institutions being forced (or even asked) to perform marriages they disapprove of.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: NavyDoc

Just do what I did--don't bother and make your own way in life. It is much easier when you recognize that their is no imaginary man in the sky and he doesn't give a # what you do with your sexual organs.

Been there for most of my life; I completely agree with you.

(That feels so ... dirty ... to say ...

)

Here's a hug to make you feel better. I'll even suspend the "no reach around" rule just this once.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: NavyDoc

Herr Hitler may also have had a secret Disney fetish going on ...

(seems that he was a big fan of Snow White)

Did Hitler Draw Disney Characters?

Learn something new every day. Thanks!

a reply to: NavyDoc

Gwarsh Doc ... *blushes*

OK, we need to fight about something. All this easy-going rational conversation is far too placid.

Also, on the Hitler loves Disney thing ... I had heard that he loved Snow White before, but as always, the Hitler Art Hoax may be at work. Many people have reviewed those pieces and find "no credible evidence."

originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
This is one of the rare occasions I actually support the religious people. They should not be forced to perform duties that violate their religious beliefs, regardless.

Then they shouldn't have a for profit business that serves the public. Simple.

The public is secular. They serve public, they serve ALL public.

Service can be refused for rude/abusive behavior, etc, but not because of personal belief.

originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
This is one of the rare occasions I actually support the religious people. They should not be forced to perform duties that violate their religious beliefs, regardless. Since marriage is a state, and not religious institution (which was half of the reason I support gay marriage in the first place) there are plenty of options for a couple to marry. A priest or cleric is not required to marry a couple, as a judge or other major civil official can do it.

But they were a for-profit business advertising that they would perform civil and non-Christian weddings. Once they re-registered as a non profit religious organization they were not subject to any law requiring them to perform gay weddings. This sure looks like the anti-gay crowd trying to manufacture a story. Especially as it turns out this is an old story that has long been resolved yet is apparently still being circulated.