Today I found out someone I know responded and helped on 9/11

Today I headed down to the beach for some after storm surf. It was great, after I got out I ran into a friend/acquaintance, fellow surfer, nicest guy you could ever meet. The Fire Dept happened to be down the beach in a lot training and he told me he was once a Fireman, this conversation merged into 9/11 because on that day he left his home and drove straight to NYC after the event to offer help and his training.

He told me some grissly stories of picking up body parts, only small pieces, he even found just a penis. It all had to be rounded up and bagged. He had folks coming up to him with pictures of their loved ones asking if he'd seen them in the rubble, he held back the fact that there wasn't a single human body he saw in the aftermath.

Of course this evolved into how the towers came down etc. Now I the last thing I wanted to do was offend this guy and lose a friend, but when I brought up WTC7 the lobby of the Towers blown out, the core of the Towers, NIST, etc, his answer was always "I don't care about that".
A minor cold front came thru (temp dropped about 15 degrees quick) and it was his excuse to bail.
I always feel bad about bringing up 9/11, but I never get mad or emotional discussing it, at least anymore.
When I meet someone who is interested in what I know I always feel bad that I've sucked them into the hell.

Hope I didn't lose a friend.

a reply to: ugmold

Bah, that's nothing to lose a friend over. If anything it'll lead to boundaries being drawn and increased bonding potential. 9 out of 10 friendships that 'end poorly' for me end up going on to forge a far stronger relation with the person.
People are restrained, the only way to truly know someone is to break down those restraints, and the best way to do that is to have a SHTF debate (sometimes argument) where everyone's dirty laundry is aired. Just so long as both sides are open minded and won't seek vindication.

Context is always important.


I don't care about that, because I lack the empathy...

Or...

I don't care about that, I handled the body parts of my compatriots and it's not what 9/11 symbolises for me...



I wouldn't like to speculate on his thought process.

IMO, not believing the official 9/11 story takes nothing away from the heroism and bravery the first responders showed.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Context is always important.


I don't care about that, because I lack the empathy...

Or...

I don't care about that, I handled the body parts of my compatriots and it's not what 9/11 symbolises for me...



I wouldn't like to speculate on his thought process.

This is a caring individual and did seem to be familiar with 9/11 Conspiracy's. He told me once he always thanks serviceman for their service.

I think he was overwhelmed that he didn't have an answer and old Cognitive Dissonance set in.

originally posted by: ugmold

Of course this evolved into how the towers came down etc. Now I the last thing I wanted to do was offend this guy and lose a friend, but when I brought up WTC7 the lobby of the Towers blown out, the core of the Towers, NIST, etc, his answer was always "I don't care about that".

I wish you could have known the context of that remark, it means something.

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: ugmold

Of course this evolved into how the towers came down etc. Now I the last thing I wanted to do was offend this guy and lose a friend, but when I brought up WTC7 the lobby of the Towers blown out, the core of the Towers, NIST, etc, his answer was always "I don't care about that".

I wish you could have known the context of that remark, it means something.

Explain

a reply to: ugmold

Personally I think the likely answer is he doesn't care to believe it.

He dealt with something awful. Beyond what 99% of the population can even comprehend. I think that, perhaps, what he dealt with is as much as he can handle. Learning that "it was an inside job" could be the proverbial "bridge too far" for him.

Perhaps you lost a friend, but perhaps not. If not, I wouldn't test that boundary again. If he brings it up, by all means. But I wouldn't try to push him down that road again. It's not necessarily a matter of he doesn't care, or he doesn't want to discuss it, but he may just not be able to.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: ugmold

Personally I think the likely answer is he doesn't care to believe it.

He dealt with something awful. Beyond what 99% of the population can even comprehend. I think that, perhaps, what he dealt with is as much as he can handle. Learning that "it was an inside job" could be the proverbial "bridge too far" for him.

Perhaps you lost a friend, but perhaps not. If not, I wouldn't test that boundary again. If he brings it up, by all means. But I wouldn't try to push him down that road again. It's not necessarily a matter of he doesn't care, or he doesn't want to discuss it, but he may just not be able to.

Thanks, I think you are right. I have loose lips.

a reply to: ugmold

It is an interesting experience/circumstance you encountered today. Reminds me of hearing friends' who are veterans describing stories of their deployments (when they talk about it at all) - PTSD and trauma like that will change people in so many ways. I agree with everyone who said it could actually form a STRONGER friendship in the end and not to worry too much. If you talk with him next time maybe casually mention that you didn't mean to upset him or offend him by anything you said and empathize with him for what he went through.

I do wish we knew more about what he meant by "I don't care about that" , it could be that proverbial "bridge too far" as Shamrock described it too - very well-said.

I hope all works out

a reply to: ugmold

No problem. I'm ex military, multiple deployments. There are things that I will never discuss with somebody who wasn't "there." Further still there are things I would just rather not discuss period. To me that sounds like the case here. If you were a fellow 9/11 responder, perhaps it would be different I don't know. Just don't take it personally. Maybe reach out to him in a couple of days just to say hello or something. I don't think it was a world-ending conversation, so much as perhaps you ran into an unseen boundary for him. Reach out, open the dialogue back up. I think he'd appreciate it, if handled well.

a reply to: ugmold

Is he in good health? Heard about a lot of health problems for first responders, so just curious.

originally posted by: tinker9917
a reply to: ugmold

Is he in good health? Heard about a lot of health problems for first responders, so just curious.

Yes he is, we talked about that, I told of my contempt for "Christie" Todd Whitman and the horrible treatment of First Responders with Health Issues, and that I've given to the First Responders Fund for years. I asked if he wore a mask and said it was too hot. I guess he is lucky.

Hopefully I'll see him next time the surf is up, as that is the only time we get together.

originally posted by: ugmold

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: ugmold

Of course this evolved into how the towers came down etc. Now I the last thing I wanted to do was offend this guy and lose a friend, but when I brought up WTC7 the lobby of the Towers blown out, the core of the Towers, NIST, etc, his answer was always "I don't care about that".

I wish you could have known the context of that remark, it means something.

Explain

There's not much to explain really, because your telling doesn't give all the grim reality that there were bodies all over, as well as body parts, firemen even remarked over and over on that, they also talked about bombs and explosions. Your friend didn't elaborate on that, only about small body parts. You should know yourself that there were so many people hurt and killed in the WTC1 lobby, people who were still alive and spoke and who died eventually. But maybe your friend helped out only after the collapses, I don't know it doesn't indicate that in the OP except here,

" He had folks coming up to him with pictures of their loved ones asking if he'd seen them in the rubble, he held back the fact that there wasn't a single human body he saw in the aftermath."
But if he was there beforehand, he surely would have been attending to bodies as well, or at least seeing where they were.
If he did then say to you, "I don't care about that" where do you go? all he had to say, was I don't know about that.

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: ugmold

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: ugmold

Of course this evolved into how the towers came down etc. Now I the last thing I wanted to do was offend this guy and lose a friend, but when I brought up WTC7 the lobby of the Towers blown out, the core of the Towers, NIST, etc, his answer was always "I don't care about that".

I wish you could have known the context of that remark, it means something.

Explain

There's not much to explain really, because your telling doesn't give all the grim reality that there were bodies all over, as well as body parts, firemen even remarked over and over on that, they also talked about bombs and explosions. Your friend didn't elaborate on that, only about small body parts. You should know yourself that there were so many people hurt and killed in the WTC1 lobby, people who were still alive and spoke and who died eventually. But maybe your friend helped out only after the collapses, I don't know it doesn't indicate that in the OP except here,

" He had folks coming up to him with pictures of their loved ones asking if he'd seen them in the rubble, he held back the fact that there wasn't a single human body he saw in the aftermath."
But if he was there beforehand, he surely would have been attending to bodies as well, or at least seeing where they were.
If he did then say to you, "I don't care about that" where do you go? all he had to say, was I don't know about that.

He got there on 9/11 before midnight, drove down. This is what he told me. I will not quiz him.

a reply to: ugmold
Bumped into my friend today again (leftover waves) I told I was sorry if anything I said yesterday was offensive. His reply, no, didn't bother me at all. Then we yakked about surfboards for an hour. All is good. But no matter where I am, who I talk to, my concerns about the Globe spew out.