Southern US Culture and Heritage

a reply to: Annee

Mexicans still have their country and culture, and First Nations Tribes, are self governing, and are still allowed their culture and traditions.

What you have basically just said is using Sherman's total war tactics was justified in the south but not in the west, and that makes you the exact type of look down your nose anti southern bigot type I spoke about in my post. You proved my point perfectly.

Have a nice day.

originally posted by: DarkStormCrow
a reply to: Annee

Mexicans still have their country and culture, and First Nations Tribes, are self governing, and are still allowed their culture and traditions.

What you have basically just said is using Sherman's total war tactics was justified in the south but not in the west, and that makes you the exact type of look down your nose anti southern bigot type I spoke about in my post. You proved my point perfectly.

Have a nice day.

And you proved mine. Where did I mention Mexico? There is a lot more history then just the south. And the south brought it upon themselves because of greed.

Pío built and furnished the Pico House in 1870, a grand hotel which was the very finest hotel in the entire Southwest. Today, Pico House is still standing and is part of El Pueblo de Los Angeles. He spent too much money, buying whatever caught his fancy. He was also overgenerous, and liked horse racing and gambling. After the 1884 flood, Pico did very little entertaining, and the El Ranchito lands became much smaller. Although Pico managed to rebuild his home, money problems forced him to adopt a relatively simple lifestyle. Piece by piece, he sold his vast holdings to pay the money that he owed. Bernard Cohn, an American lawyer cheated him out of his land, because Pico couldn't read or speak English. He was kicked out of his beloved El Ranchito, and left in a buggy with his few remaining possessions in 1892. He died on September 11, 1894, at the age of 93, in the home of his adopted daughter, Joaquina Moreno. www.piopico.org...

a reply to: Annee

You really think being cheated out of your land is the same? People get conned and cheated all the time even today.

The souths "Greed" was no different than any other nations "Greed" . You should check out some pictures of Atlanta or Charleston after the Civil War, some areas looked like Dresden or Berlin after WW II.

You brought up Mexican land barons I did not.

This thread was about the south and why they see things the way they do.

More than anything it means sacrifice, duty and honor.
By sacrifice I mean that nearly every man capable of fighting did so, leaving their homes while wondering if a Yankee army wasn't going to come along and raid their farm, burn the town or worse. Sacrifice where you gave away most of the crops you needed to get your family through the winter because you knew the boys in the Army were in even worse shape than you.

Duty to your country which at that time was your state. You were a Carolinian, Georgian or a Virginian first and American second. Most people never traveled more than a 100 miles away from home, many never left their home state their whole lives.

Honor was to fulfill your duty, if that meant dying in defense of your state. Duty was staying on even when there wasn't any food, your clothes were threadbare and you had holes in your shoes. Duty was part of the code of honor that meant felt very seriously about in the South.

The South had a martial tradition, the Mexican war was less than 20 years before the Civil War and many Southerner had fought in it. Most of the senior officers of the US army before the war were Southerners. In addition the South had 2 military academies against only 1 in the North.

Few people are aware of how brutal the Revolutionary war was in the South, especially the Carolinas. The Mel Gibson movie "The Patriot" gives a little taste of what that was like.

Being Southern means hospitality, knowing and helping your neighbors. It means being courteous and polite and protective of the fairer sex. It means taking the time to enjoy life and the bounty of nature. It means Individual freedom and a sense of rebellion against any kind of central authority.

I fail to see how everyone can equate the flag with slavery when only a tiny percentage of around 5% of Southerners even owned slaves. Like the elites today it was mostly the very rich plantation owners who had slaves. The vast majority of Southerners who fought did so to protect their state and their homes from invasion and ruin.

When you look at how much blood the South gave, how much infrastructure was destroyed and how they continued to suffer long after the Civil War through Reconstruction it's not hard to see why Southerners hold the flag dear as a symbol of what they gave to protect their homes and states. Now they are telling us we're horrible people for keeping such a symbol around. If you want symbols of slavery and black oppression I think of KKK hoods, nooses and burning crosses.

The men who fought and died under that flag weren't doing it to keep slavery legal but to keep their homes intact.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

I find this statement a great example of ignorance......

Slavery, racial segregation, Jim Crow, intimidation, terrorism, racial birthright, racial purity.

And to refute those I would say Southern Culture was shown beautifuly , at how SC handled the mass shooting down there......

With everyone black and white coming together to mourn, lift up, praise, offer support, and celebrate their diversity, with their humbleness, faith , forgiveness , and sense of community......

That is southern culture and values.....

Anyone else that tries to make us out as a bunch of racist is clearly agenda driven

How these people in SC responded is a shining example of Southern Culture

its more disgusting to see people try to put us in a different box, despite the the above mentioned

Considering the last vestige of school segregation was ended via forced bussing in the 1970's in Boston Massachusetts and northern states and out west in California banned interracial marriage until well into the 20th century, I'd suggest that the aformentioned issues are not the sole fault of the South. I'm from Michigan and saw a lot more racial division in and around Detroit than any southern place Uncle Sam sent me.

a reply to: DarkStormCrow

Having spent my childhood in NY before moving back to Virginia where I was born I can say that racism is alive and well up in NY but I have seen very little of it here in Virginia. It's been my experience that Northerners are far more racist and bigoted than Southerners.

I applaud you for flying your flag on the occasion of the birthday of Gen John B Gordon. He is another personal hero of mine. If you want to see sacrifice, honor and accomplishment one need look no farther than Gordon. Sadly, most Americans have never even heard of him even though he played a critical role in National Reunification. The men who served with him held in such high regard that he was the President for life of the United Confederate Veterans. I often wonder if men of such courage still exist in today's world or if they were all used up in the Civil War.

originally posted by: DarkStormCrow
When speaking of southerners, its good to keep in mind that they are the only people in the nation that have been defeated and occupied, their homes and farms destroyed and their properties and families pillaged. Southerners are the only subset of America that knows true loss and the full effects of total war. 1 major battle was fought in a northern state and that was at Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. the Civil War was fought 95% on southern soil. I live to the west/northwest of Atlanta, you can not go very far without finding some Civil war historical marker, There are 3 major battlefields within a 20 minute drive from my home. The Civil War was a tragedy, no side really won, we paid in blood for the sin of slavery.
If you were lived in the south as a white person from 1865-1945 you knew you were a second or third class citizen, and most folks from non southern states never let you forget it. I was born in the mid 60s, and on many occasions just being southern in other parts of the nation still brought insults and derision even into the early 80s. That is not just a being white issue I have seen northern blacks treat southern blacks poorly too.
Southern states did not get the nice subways and roads, schools, sewage systems etc, that they had up north until the WW II era. When you make fun of poor southern whites and blacks for that matter, you have to understand that point before any judgement is made.
.

Thank you - you touched on matters I would not have considered and I promise that I will. I may have questions shortly and hope you don't mind.

Thank you very much for sharing some of your history with us.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

We have no statesmen or men of courage in politics today, politicians today are the least deserving of our respect in any form.

On either side of the political spectrum.

Where the chilly wind don't blow....

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: DarkStormCrow
When speaking of southerners, its good to keep in mind that they are the only people in the nation that have been defeated and occupied, their homes and farms destroyed and their properties and families pillaged. Southerners are the only subset of America that knows true loss and the full effects of total war.

Native Americans, Mexican Land Barrons ---- you really need to widen your scope.

The #1 reason for the Civil War is still slavery.

Please don't derail this thead about Southern Culture. I want to know the good parts and get some perspective on my own knee-jerk anger.

originally posted by: DarkStormCrow
a reply to: Annee

Did I not say that slavery was morally wrong?

Native Americans fought on the side of the Confederates and also owned Black Slaves.

If you do not understand the damage done in the south during and after the Civil War maybe you are the one who needs to widen your scope. The south was treated worse than any other external enemy the US has ever fought.

I agree and was particularly touched by this "Being southern is a hard thing, in a strictly legal sense Succession from the Union was correct, but 99% of white southerners know slavery was morally wrong. Being legally right and morally wrong makes for a slightly bipolar personality". It made me laugh and understand a little better.

originally posted by: eriktheawful
a reply to: Annee

Ah.....so it was "okay" to do that.

It was "justified".

It was "the right thing to do".

Because they "brought it upon themselves".

I guess we should have done that to Japan and West Germany, post WW2.

After all: they "brought it upon themselves." right?

Please don't change the subject into something it isn't.

I want to hear, from southerners, about that heritatage they are proud of.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals


Duty to your country which at that time was your state. You were a Carolinian, Georgian or a Virginian first and American second. Most people never traveled more than a 100 miles away from home, many never left their home state their whole lives.

Honor was to fulfill your duty, if that meant dying in defense of your state. Duty was staying on even when there wasn't any food, your clothes were threadbare and you had holes in your shoes. Duty was part of the code of honor that meant felt very seriously about in the South.



Being Southern means hospitality, knowing and helping your neighbors. It means being courteous and polite and protective of the fairer sex. It means taking the time to enjoy life and the bounty of nature. It means Individual freedom and a sense of rebellion against any kind of central authority.

I fail to see how everyone can equate the flag with slavery when only a tiny percentage of around 5% of Southerners even owned slaves. Like the elites today it was mostly the very rich plantation owners who had slaves. The vast majority of Southerners who fought did so to protect their state and their homes from invasion and ruin.

When you look at how much blood the South gave, how much infrastructure was destroyed and how they continued to suffer long after the Civil War through Reconstruction it's not hard to see why Southerners hold the flag dear as a symbol of what they gave to protect their homes and states. Now they are telling us we're horrible people for keeping such a symbol around. If you want symbols of slavery and black oppression I think of KKK hoods, nooses and burning crosses.

The men who fought and died under that flag weren't doing it to keep slavery legal but to keep their homes intact.

Quite nicely said - and in a manner I think we can all understand.

originally posted by: DarkStormCrow
a reply to: Annee

You really think being cheated out of your land is the same? People get conned and cheated all the time even today.

The souths "Greed" was no different than any other nations "Greed" . You should check out some pictures of Atlanta or Charleston after the Civil War, some areas looked like Dresden or Berlin after WW II.

You brought up Mexican land barons I did not.

This thread was about the south and why they see things the way they do.

Can we ignore this short tangent and get back to the subject please.

Heritage and Culture, what southerners hold so dear.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

I find this statement a great example of ignorance......

Slavery, racial segregation, Jim Crow, intimidation, terrorism, racial birthright, racial purity.

And to refute those I would say Southern Culture was shown beautifuly , at how SC handled the mass shooting down there......

With everyone black and white coming together to mourn, lift up, praise, offer support, and celebrate their diversity, with their humbleness, faith , forgiveness , and sense of community......

That is southern culture and values.....

Anyone else that tries to make us out as a bunch of racist is clearly agenda driven

How these people in SC responded is a shining example of Southern Culture

its more disgusting to see people try to put us in a different box, despite the the above mentioned

Considering the last vestige of school segregation was ended via forced bussing in the 1970's in Boston Massachusetts and northern states and out west in California banned interracial marriage until well into the 20th century, I'd suggest that the aformentioned issues are not the sole fault of the South. I'm from Michigan and saw a lot more racial division in and around Detroit than any southern place Uncle Sam sent me.

PLEASE stop the OFF-TOPIC crap.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
a reply to: DarkStormCrow

Having spent my childhood in NY before moving back to Virginia where I was born I can say that racism is alive and well up in NY but I have seen very little of it here in Virginia. It's been my experience that Northerners are far more racist and bigoted than Southerners.

I applaud you for flying your flag on the occasion of the birthday of Gen John B Gordon. He is another personal hero of mine. If you want to see sacrifice, honor and accomplishment one need look no farther than Gordon. Sadly, most Americans have never even heard of him even though he played a critical role in National Reunification. The men who served with him held in such high regard that he was the President for life of the United Confederate Veterans. I often wonder if men of such courage still exist in today's world or if they were all used up in the Civil War.

Please this is Off-topic.

The topic is southern cluture and what it means from those that have lived it. I haven't I don't know. I've been touched by the sincerity and frankness of several of the responses and it helps me (and one would hope others) see this controversy from a different angle - maybe from several.

When the blame game, and the who's worse, yadda, yadda, etc. come into play in ruins the space.

Please can we play nice just a little?

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

I find this statement a great example of ignorance......

Slavery, racial segregation, Jim Crow, intimidation, terrorism, racial birthright, racial purity.

And to refute those I would say Southern Culture was shown beautifuly , at how SC handled the mass shooting down there......

With everyone black and white coming together to mourn, lift up, praise, offer support, and celebrate their diversity, with their humbleness, faith , forgiveness , and sense of community......

That is southern culture and values.....

Anyone else that tries to make us out as a bunch of racist is clearly agenda driven

How these people in SC responded is a shining example of Southern Culture

its more disgusting to see people try to put us in a different box, despite the the above mentioned

Considering the last vestige of school segregation was ended via forced bussing in the 1970's in Boston Massachusetts and northern states and out west in California banned interracial marriage until well into the 20th century, I'd suggest that the aformentioned issues are not the sole fault of the South. I'm from Michigan and saw a lot more racial division in and around Detroit than any southern place Uncle Sam sent me.

PLEASE stop the OFF-TOPIC crap.

It's quite on topic--you can't rail about the "evils" of one region whilst completely ignoring the similar faults of other regions. It's quite hypocritical. The south is not the only place with racial issues.

If you just want an echo chamber where you can just do a delusionary rant and find any contradiction offensive, fine. However don't predend that you want to have an objective discussion.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Oh look. The young Turks don't know the difference between the battle flag and the national flag.

Intentional or accident?

Probably intentional.

Funny how these Turks have the nerve to talk about racism. Their sick, barbaric nation massacred Armenians and Kurds by the hundreds of thousands in one of the worst genocides of the 20th century. Pathetic hypocrites, especially considering Turkey still actively promotes these sub-human policies towards groups like the Kurds today.

Turks today still actually idolize this part of their history.

Another thing to consider when you want to discuss race relations in the South vis a vis the North or other regions.

Even during the days of the antebellum South, white and blacks lived and worked in close proximity to one another and were in many ways much more familiar with each other in a day-to-day manner. It produced relationships that were skewed because of the master/slave relationship but were still much closer than the kinds of relationships many others in the country ever experienced with blacks.

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: FyreByrd

Slavery, racial segregation, Jim Crow, intimidation, terrorism, racial birthright, racial purity.

Adherence to those memes in the face of any threat and no matter who suffers. It's a declaration of war.

Why do we find the large majority of radicalized blacks in the North? The North wasn't really kind to blacks when they moved up to work in the years after the war. Look at the northern upheavals of blacks in northern cities and California over the years.


Look at the shells of the inner city in the great north and the failure of the great northern experiment, the great society, the great liberal playgrounds.