Can someone explain the whole Banning of the Confederate Flag issue?

a reply to: reldra

That's the difference between many people on this opinion. I fully support the freedom of speech. I don't agree with people burning the American flag . But I can respect their right to feel that way . Our constitutional rights are not supposed to be hypocritical . Hell even though I do not support the neo-Nazis or white supremacist . I still believe that they are entitled under the Constitution to speak their minds .


That is where the problem arises for me . I can understand/support people viewing the rebel flag as racist though I don't agree with them , but they are entitled to their civil rights .

What I can't understand is that even though people support the rebel flag for a different causes than racism . It still needs to be banned even though I support people that oppose it ?


Think about what I said there does that on even ground make any sense ?

originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: reldra

ah, I see. Thanks for the explanation

I do agree with a lot of the member's comments here. I can definitely see how "they want all symbols of rebellion to be purged from society".

'THEY' likely exist. So, I would not ban any flag. I am not into banning symbols or things that are part of history, even if I disagree with most of the message the thing may contain. That leads to revision of history-the good and the bad-which is a bad thing. It is akin to burning of books. However, I do not think a copy of "The Anarchists Cookbook" should be available at every State Capitol building. It should be available, though.

a reply to: reldra

Yes, I completely agree. The worst thing anyone or any group can do is erase something, someone, or some culture from history.

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: reldra

That's the difference between many people on this opinion. I fully support the freedom of speech. I don't agree with people burning the American flag . But I can respect their right to feel that way . Our constitutional rights are not supposed to be hypocritical . Hell even though I do not support the neo-Nazis or white supremacist . I still believe that they are entitled under the Constitution to speak their minds .


That is where the problem arises for me . I can understand/support people viewing the rebel flag as racist though I don't agree with them , but they are entitled to their civil rights .

What I can't understand is that even though people support the rebel flag for a different causes than racism . It still needs to be banned even though I support people that oppose it ?


Think about what I said there does that on even ground make any sense ?

Clarification? You think it should be banned? You think it should not? I got lost in the wording .

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: beezzer You make a good point about having it up to 'never forget'. But for some, they want to forget as it causes hurt.

The problem with forgetting history is that you're bound to repeat it if you don't have a constant reminder.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: beezzer You make a good point about having it up to 'never forget'. But for some, they want to forget as it causes hurt.

The problem with forgetting history is that you're bound to repeat it if you don't have a constant reminder.

I don;t want to erase it, see my previous posts. I think it may be a good idea to not have it flown on government property from a post, though. However....I did see someone somewhere (I can;t remember who) suggest that the flag at that location should be displayed in a case in a museum/history type area.

a reply to: Ghost147

I can sum it up in one word for you: politics.

Election season is coming up, time to divide the people on nonsense issues. Pick something that might affect a few people, blow it out of proportion, and suddenly you have and apparent difference between Republicans and Democrats. Meanwhile, politicians and the media will overlook things both parties seem to support whether the people like it or not.

How many people want to fly a Confederate flag? How many really care (if they weren't told to care) ? Small numbers, I would think.

How many people care about NSA spying? I would think a heck of a lot more, considering the NSA is spying on everyone. But when it comes right down to it, the NSA, Republicans, Democrats, and the media are all on the same page there. And it's not the same page the American people are on.

As elections draw closer, you will see more nonsense issues designed to make people think there is a difference between Republicans and Democrats. Real issues, where Republicans and Democrats are at odds with the American people, will see very little daylight.

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: reldra

That's the difference between many people on this opinion. I fully support the freedom of speech. I don't agree with people burning the American flag . But I can respect their right to feel that way . Our constitutional rights are not supposed to be hypocritical . Hell even though I do not support the neo-Nazis or white supremacist . I still believe that they are entitled under the Constitution to speak their minds .


That is where the problem arises for me . I can understand/support people viewing the rebel flag as racist though I don't agree with them , but they are entitled to their civil rights .

What I can't understand is that even though people support the rebel flag for a different causes than racism . It still needs to be banned even though I support people that oppose it ?


Think about what I said there does that on even ground make any sense ?

Clarification? You think it should be banned? You think it should not? I got lost in the wording .

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough . But my position is nothing should be banned . Under the First Amendment unless aggressive everyone should be able to express or say what is on their mind .

Banning one position is just another way of silencing opposition .

a reply to: VictorVonDoom
For many, it is not a nonsense issue and intelligent people can think about many issues at one time. You are minimizing an issue not of import to you, but is of import to others. I am a liberal democrat through and through and don't want this flag banned and it hasn't been. I am not distracted from other issues, as I have said in other forums- I can walk and chew gum at the same time- I imagine you can too.

a reply to: Greathouse

I like this comment.

It reveals a bit of the hypocrisy of some individuals. People want to oppress "oppressors" with oppression. I don't think people think of it that way, but the fact of the matter is, that's how it works. By motioning to ban it, you're motioning to ban individual expression (on personal grounds anyway).

That's what I think has many people shaking their heads about the state of the country. While freedom for all seems like it's increasing, those who have a different opinion are being demonized. The same people who do the ostracizing are the ones who are saying "be open to other people's opinions" - ironically...

originally posted by: Greathouse

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: reldra

That's the difference between many people on this opinion. I fully support the freedom of speech. I don't agree with people burning the American flag . But I can respect their right to feel that way . Our constitutional rights are not supposed to be hypocritical . Hell even though I do not support the neo-Nazis or white supremacist . I still believe that they are entitled under the Constitution to speak their minds .


That is where the problem arises for me . I can understand/support people viewing the rebel flag as racist though I don't agree with them , but they are entitled to their civil rights .

What I can't understand is that even though people support the rebel flag for a different causes than racism . It still needs to be banned even though I support people that oppose it ?


Think about what I said there does that on even ground make any sense ?

Clarification? You think it should be banned? You think it should not? I got lost in the wording .

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough . But my position is nothing should be banned . Under the First Amendment unless aggressive everyone should be able to express or say what is on their mind .

Banning one position is just another way of silencing opposition .

Of course, unless it is something like owning one's own nuclear warhead or 10 lbs of heroin..to give extreme examples..obviously flags should not be banned. Businesses have the choice of what symbols they will tolerate for sale via their forums. People can demand a certain flag not be flown on government property...but you are quite right.
You are normally voice of the sane here.

And I liked the previous avatar...it was like you were hunting down idiots lol

The Rebel flag must be removed from all official capacity.

Here's why (post from a similar thread):

I did a little research into how this flag of a rebel nation was allowed to fly over government buildings in the first place.

From what I've read it only goes back to the late 50's anti de-segregation and anti Civil Rights movement.

So, in the case of flying the confederate flags over state capitol buildings it just leads to some racist BS.

Not heritage, not anything but racism directed strictly at black Americans. SMH.

I understand that the flag means different things to different people, to some it really does stand for Heritage, Pride, what have you.

Great! Fly it on your car, fly it in your yard, heck, tattoo it on your forehead, that's freedom of speech.

However, it has no place in ANY official capacity. The origins of it's use in an official capacity are rooted in jim crow era, dixiecrat racism from the 50's and 60's.

Leave it on the Dukes of Hazard toys though, after all, they were just good ol boys never meanin no harm.

a reply to: abe froman Well said, from beginning to end.

a reply to: Shugo

People want to oppress "oppressors" with oppression

My god that quote is beautiful direct and to the point . I read your reply in it's entirety but I could not get that quote out of my head because it was so simple and logical !!!

a reply to: abe froman

You realize its gone beyond just getting the flag off state buildings now, its expanded to monuments , battlefields, cemeteries and what have you, some places even want to ban civil war reenactors from using the flag.

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Greathouse

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: reldra

That's the difference between many people on this opinion. I fully support the freedom of speech. I don't agree with people burning the American flag . But I can respect their right to feel that way . Our constitutional rights are not supposed to be hypocritical . Hell even though I do not support the neo-Nazis or white supremacist . I still believe that they are entitled under the Constitution to speak their minds .


That is where the problem arises for me . I can understand/support people viewing the rebel flag as racist though I don't agree with them , but they are entitled to their civil rights .

What I can't understand is that even though people support the rebel flag for a different causes than racism . It still needs to be banned even though I support people that oppose it ?


Think about what I said there does that on even ground make any sense ?

Clarification? You think it should be banned? You think it should not? I got lost in the wording .

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough . But my position is nothing should be banned . Under the First Amendment unless aggressive everyone should be able to express or say what is on their mind .

Banning one position is just another way of silencing opposition .

Of course, unless it is something like owning one's own nuclear warhead or 10 lbs of heroin..to give extreme examples..obviously flags should not be banned. Businesses have the choice of what symbols they will tolerate for sale via their forums. People can demand a certain flag not be flown on government property...but you are quite right.
You are normally voice of the sane here.

And I liked the previous avatar...it was like you were hunting down idiots lol

Thank you for the compliment. But I have two drawbacks on this site . Number one is the sane disposition you referred to. ( nobody likes actual facts and a hypothetical discussion )


The second issue is honesty. Although I have ran into posters like you and some others that have no problem admitting fault in their self or their opinion .


That seems to be a rare quality anymore ? I only take sides on two issues I know of. Those are the Russian aggression in Eastern Europe and terrorism. To my knowledge everyother stance I offer is dealt with on a case-by-case basis .

originally posted by: Shugo
a reply to: Greathouse

I like this comment.

It reveals a bit of the hypocrisy of some individuals. People want to oppress "oppressors" with oppression. I don't think people think of it that way, but the fact of the matter is, that's how it works. By motioning to ban it, you're motioning to ban individual expression (on personal grounds anyway).

That's what I think has many people shaking their heads about the state of the country. While freedom for all seems like it's increasing, those who have a different opinion are being demonized. The same people who do the ostracizing are the ones who are saying "be open to other people's opinions" - ironically...

This needs clarification as well. Lately, people that have a mean and hateful and have not logically based opinions are losing. I don't want to actually oppress them, as in make them poor and live in shacks. I am just glad that logic and human decency is winning and is on a good roll.
I have seen opinions saying that the people finally, finally- getting dignity are 'crying victim'. That is backwards. I have seen a lot of 'victim blaming'. As in the oppressed, achieving a good amount of dignity and fair share of civil rights are being called horrible things- the worst being 'ruining the country and bringing down the wrath of God' to the least of 'crying victim' without reason.

a reply to: DarkStormCrow

That's unconstitutional.

I stand for the Constitution of the United States and equality for ALL, even white people.

If you have a rebel flag it just increased in value, if you don't have one what's the rush to get one now?

a reply to: DarkStormCrow

Ok, just searched e-bay and found they are not selling the Confederate or Rebel flag.

That's also some BS.

originally posted by: DarkStormCrow
a reply to: abe froman

You realize its gone beyond just getting the flag off state buildings now, its expanded to monuments , battlefields, cemeteries and what have you, some places even want to ban civil war reenactors from using the flag.

There is no move to remove the Confederate flag from war re enactments. Not cemeteries of confederate soldiers that died, either. I saw you start a post earlier about concealed carry v gay marriage rights earlier that also made no sense.