Homosexuality Is Not A Choice

a reply to: arpgme
okay
-Kirk out.

There have been so many posts and threads on this topic -- this is one of my least favorite threads in the series -- however this happens to be the most appropriate one for what I want to say. So here goes...

Here is my hypothesis:

Sexual preference is solely triggered by the environment.

Specifically, all people are born without gender preference, and you are triggered hard into your sexual proclivities by YOUR FIRST ENJOYABLE SEXUAL EXPERIENCE. Nothing more.

You may or may not remember your first enjoyable sexual experience. But I think it is fair to say that once you have achieved that, you want to repeat the experience, without variation.

Regarding a "genetic cause" to one's sexual preference -- there appears to be a weak correlation between how masculine and / or feminine you are (based on your genes) and how you are triggered by society. But that is just an after-effect, not a root cause.

Once you are triggered -- it will be EXTREMELY HARD (for most people impossible) to lose your predisposition. In this respect, it is like any other addictive behavior that you love.


Now -- given that all the above is true, here are some points.

@1. If you want to eliminate or reduce homosexuality (if that is your objective) you simply keep certain strong prohibitions in place -- such as outlaw homosexual pornography, censor TV shows and movies that depict homosexuality in a positive light (like Glee?), run TV ads kindly discouraging homosexuality (like anti-smoking and drug abuse campaigns), and ENCOURAGE MONOGAMOUS HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS by permitting gay marriage. If done right, these measures will change the likelihood of a person being triggered into same-sex preferences.

@2. If you want to eliminate or reduce homosexuality, society can encourage free and easier heterosexual relationships, so less people are triggered into same-sex preference out of necessity. Right now, FOR MANY PEOPLE, it is much more difficult to establish a heterosexual relationship than a homosexual relationship. There is likely a whole class of people who are permanently triggered into homosexual relationships because they can't FIND an initial heterosexual relationship. (Possible?)

@3. If you want to encourage homosexuality (if that is your objective) simply remove the prohibitions against it, and campaign for it. This will mean that homosexual triggers will compete better with standard heterosexual triggers in the wild, and you will see a lot more people triggered into same-sex preferences. This is experimentally verifiable, and would be my starting point to prove my hypothesis. (Anyone want to fund that experiment?)


Finally, if I am correct about this (that sexual preference is a DEEP ADDICTION), then it is just cruel to deny marriage to someone who has been triggered into a non-standard sexual preference. A homosexual person is not going to change back to heterosexual. Denying gay marriage is a lot harsher than denying a tobacco addict the ability to smoke in a public place, for example, and less justifiable since there is no obvious personal detrimental outcome to homosexual behavior (if you reduce promiscuity and STDs, necessary for all types of sexual congress anyway.)

What is more, if we want to reduce homosexual behavior, gay marriage MAY actually help accomplish this (given item @1 above.)

One last point -- this hypothesis and discussion avoids the issue whether there is anything wrong with homosexual behavior, but I will say this: If homosexuality is not necessary to society then it should probably be reduced as much as possible (without causing a lot of pain) in order to keep the human gene pool large and reduce competition for good mates. However, you don't want to suppress homosexuality by making a large class of people miserable, or do something that will accidentally take us "off the rails" in some other way.

I am not sure why I wanted to elaborate on this -- I haven't seen this case made in this way, and perhaps it will shed some new light on this discussion.

originally posted by: Axial Leader
There have been so many posts and threads on this topic -- this is one of my least favorite threads in the series -- however this happens to be the most appropriate one for what I want to say. So here goes...

Here is my hypothesis:

Sexual preference is solely triggered by the environment.

Specifically, all people are born without gender preference, and you are triggered hard into your sexual proclivities by YOUR FIRST ENJOYABLE SEXUAL EXPERIENCE. Nothing more.

You may or may not remember your first enjoyable sexual experience. But I think it is fair to say that once you have achieved that, you want to repeat the experience, without variation.

What you're describing is exactly how a Fetish is formed, not a sexual orientation.

originally posted by: Axial Leader
Regarding a "genetic cause" to one's sexual preference -- there appears to be a weak correlation between how masculine and / or feminine you are (based on your genes) and how you are triggered by society. But that is just an after-effect, not a root cause.

just because a male is scrawny, has a high pitched voice, has a fantastic talent with fashion and no interest in hyper-masculine activities, does not mean that he will become gay. You do realize there are super-macho, super masculine, beer-drinking, sports playing gay men, don't you?

Nor does a broad shouldered, deep voiced, tall, masculined-faced female thus mean she will become a lesbian, or even has a better chance at becoming a lesbian due to how society views her. You do realize there are slim, girly-girl, plays with dolls, lesbians, don't you?

Your build, appearance, and behavior as to what society views as how a man or woman should act has no impact on what you are attracted to.

However, when a biological (perhaps even genetic) trait such as those seen in homosexual individuals within their neurological makeup are virtually identical to that of the opposite gender, THEN the genetic trait really does make perfect sense (regardless of their external appearance)

originally posted by: Axial Leader
Once you are triggered -- it will be EXTREMELY HARD (for most people impossible) to lose your predisposition. In this respect, it is like any other addictive behavior that you love.

This sounds like an opinion, not a fact (considering your prior remarks). Could you source your claims, please?

originally posted by: Axial Leader
@1. If you want to eliminate or reduce homosexuality (if that is your objective) you simply keep certain strong prohibitions in place -- such as outlaw homosexual pornography, censor TV shows and movies that depict homosexuality in a positive light (like Glee?), run TV ads kindly discouraging homosexuality (like anti-smoking and drug abuse campaigns), and ENCOURAGE MONOGAMOUS HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS by permitting gay marriage. If done right, these measures will change the likelihood of a person being triggered into same-sex preferences.

Yup! Because the existence of homosexuality just fuels more homosexuality... Sorry, but this is just a massively ignorant statement.

originally posted by: Axial Leader
@2. If you want to eliminate or reduce homosexuality, society can encourage free and easier heterosexual relationships, so less people are triggered into same-sex preference out of necessity. Right now, FOR MANY PEOPLE, it is much more difficult to establish a heterosexual relationship than a homosexual relationship. There is likely a whole class of people who are permanently triggered into homosexual relationships because they can't FIND an initial heterosexual relationship. (Possible?)

@3. If you want to encourage homosexuality (if that is your objective) simply remove the prohibitions against it, and campaign for it. This will mean that homosexual triggers will compete better with standard heterosexual triggers in the wild, and you will see a lot more people triggered into same-sex preferences. This is experimentally verifiable, and would be my starting point to prove my hypothesis. (Anyone want to fund that experiment?)

Again, you clearly do not no very much about this subject if your suggesting these "quick fix" concepts.

originally posted by: Axial Leader
Finally, if I am correct about this (that sexual preference is a DEEP ADDICTION), then it is just cruel to deny marriage to someone who has been triggered into a non-standard sexual preference. A homosexual person is not going to change back to heterosexual. Denying gay marriage is a lot harsher than denying a tobacco addict the ability to smoke in a public place, for example, and less justifiable since there is no obvious personal detrimental outcome to homosexual behavior (if you reduce promiscuity and STDs, necessary for all types of sexual congress anyway.)

Somehow, with all these other misconceptions, you come to a sort-of-correct conclusion. Although, peppered with misconceptions.

originally posted by: Axial Leader
I am not sure why I wanted to elaborate on this -- I haven't seen this case made in this way, and perhaps it will shed some new light on this discussion.

The reason you haven't seen it is because it doesn't really make sense in accordance to what is (hopefully) common knowledge about sexual orientations.

originally posted by: Axial Leader
There have been so many posts and threads on this topic -- this is one of my least favorite threads in the series -- however this happens to be the most appropriate one for what I want to say. So here goes...

Here is my hypothesis:

Sexual preference is solely triggered by the environment.

Specifically, all people are born without gender preference, and you are triggered hard into your sexual proclivities by YOUR FIRST ENJOYABLE SEXUAL EXPERIENCE. Nothing more.

I cut your post at that point for a reason.
Since your premise for your "hypothesis" is incorrect it follows that the rest of your post would be incorrect too.

And it was.