The Ancient One - Kennewick Man, to be turned over to tribes

The Ancient One

Gov. Jay Inslee has asked that the human remains known as Kennewick Man, or the “Ancient One,” be transferred to Washington’s tribes as soon as possible for suitable reburial.

Inslee made his request in a letter to Brigadier Gen. John S. Kem, of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, less than two weeks after disclosure of DNA evidence linking the 8,500-year-old remains to tribes in Washington.

Those out there who wonder why there are not too many ancient human remains found in North America should remind themselves that although there is proof of man being in the new world farther back in time than the age of Kennewick man, 8,500 + years, that much of North America was covered under huge amounts of snow and ice and that when that period came to an end there were possibly at times, huge floods washing away through river valleys many sites, settlements and remains.

If there were older sites, they may have been crushed under the shear volume of ice and snow. This is possibly why we find signs of much older sites in Central and South America vs, North America....

Subsequent radiocarbon testing has established that the remains are 8,500 years old, one of the oldest human remains ever found in North America.

The Emergence, many Navajo survived that flood. The Cicada brought us into this 4th world the "glittering" world by escaping it. I say it's time to shed our past and let Cicada bring us into the 5th world. A world of peace, free from deprivation and injustices.

Luckily no "ancient tribe" in Europe is claiming the body of Ötzi the Iceman, then again he has no direct descendants...

Just my personal opinion, but I see no difference between what the Washington tribes are doing and ISIS bulldozing ancient sites.

a reply to: Heliocentric

Why do you feel that way? The tribes are only planning to rebury the dead. ISIS bulldozing ancient sites is just that. One shows reverence of the past and the dead. The other shows hatred and disdain for anything other than its own religion. Plus at this point I don't even think ISIS follows its own religion they are making up their own ideology as they go along.

a reply to: MrStyx

If you believe that man has a soul/spirit, as Native Americans do, then Kennewick man's soul is long gone. The only thing left is some fossilized collagen and bone mineral. Once again my personal opinion is that the tribes would do better to show reverence to KM's spirit rather than to the bones. While they will put them in a hole in the ground to decay, science could retrieve more knowledge about their ancestors from them. If they care so much about their ancestry, then that's the way to go IMO. Studying the bones is actually a way of showing reverence to KM's memory. The bones are better off in a lab than in the ground.


As to ISIS, while you think they act in hatred and disdain, they think they're implementing God's will. As the saying goes; the road to hell is paved with good intentions. So while both the Washington tribes and ISIS think they're doing good by destroying remnants, I think they're doing the opposite.

a reply to: Heliocentric

If you genuinely do not see much difference between what ISIS does and Native Americans wanting to return their dead to the ground, something they are guaranteed by law btw, then I think you're probably a lost cause. Such a staggeringly stupid thing to say.

What more does science have to learn from these remains? Them remaining in a box in a stuffy museum basement advances science how? The remains were dated, poured over by anthrolopologists, chemically tested, DNA tested. What more is there to glean from them? This case was more about an institution wanting the distinction of being in possession of 'the oldest' remains in NA than about there being more to learn from them. Once the DNA testing concluded across the board that Kennewick man was genetically identical to modern natives they didn't have a leg to stand on, because of the Native American right to return ancestral remains.

originally posted by: Monger
a reply to: Heliocentric

If you genuinely do not see much difference between what ISIS does and Native Americans wanting to return their dead to the ground, something they are guaranteed by law btw, then I think you're probably a lost cause. Such a staggeringly stupid thing to say.

I do see a difference between ISIS and the Washington tribes in a larger sense, as to destroying archaeological remnants I see none.

originally posted by: Monger
What more does science have to learn from these remains?

Lol, as if you are capable of evaluating what science could retrieve from these bones in 10, 20 or 30 years from now? Probably a whole lot more than you can imagine...

originally posted by: Monger

Once the DNA testing concluded across the board that Kennewick man was genetically identical to modern natives they didn't have a leg to stand on, because of the Native American right to return ancestral remains.

Personally, I think that a 9000 year old skeleton belongs to the history of humanity and not to an ethnic group in particular. In the same way, the archaeological sites ISIS is bulldozing does not belong to them or their religion. It belongs to us all.

I watched the "First Peoples" program on PBS and they covered this.

Glad to see the Native Americans were right and will get to have a respectful burial. It seems apparent that they respect the dead far more than us "whites". It takes a long time for Mother Earth to swallow her dead and the Native Americans get upset if we take the dead from out of her mouth.

a reply to: SLAYER69

I believe we have barely touched the cusp of archeological discovery. There must be a treasure trove of wonderful things out of our reach waiting to be found if they weren't ruined all together by natural means or purposely. Having the time and $$ to search deeper is, I imagine a huge hurdle.

Almost all archaeology to date has been based on the discovery of sites that are above sea level. Sea levels rose to present day levels about 6,000 years ago, therefore there has to be a great deal hidden underwater prior to this event, distorting the picture of early habitation of our planet.

Ancient America

leolady

originally posted by: SLAYER69much of North America was covered under huge amounts of snow and ice and that when that period came to an end there were possibly at times, huge floods washing away through river valleys many sites, settlements and remains.

Sounds like maybe you have heard how that part of the world is the textbook case of that phenomenon of huge, post-glacial 'inland floods,' and there are no longer any maybes about it. Maybe you've seen it, but for those who haven't, there's even an awesome episode of Nova about this, and it has a great little companion website:

PBS - NOVA: Mystery of the Megaflood

It's called 'Mystery of the Megaflood' because the episode is structured around the history of the science and scientists involved, from the discovery of baffling phenomena (an inland tsunami in the recent past?!?!) to the present day understanding of it all.

Short version: As glaciers began to retreat around ~20,000 BCE, a giant lake of glacial melt-water formed in Montana. A glacier itself became in effect an ice dam, which would eventually fail catastrophically from both melting and from the accumulating weight of the water. The result was an 'inland tsunami' traveling from ~Missoula, Montana all the way to the Pacific in Washington State. This process happened repeatedly between ~20,000 BCE and ~5000BCE. In the largest events, the traveling wall of water was over 800 feet high as it created the 'channeled scablands' of Washington State on its way to the Pacific.

a reply to: Heliocentric

Well... yes he does. The people of Europe have been there for something in the flavor of 30k + years or so, and Oetzi's body is already in the hands of the descendants of his people. It's not like at one point the people's of modern Europe kicked out a bunch of natives like we did in the Americas. Well, we might have, but that was Neanderthal man. Kinda not comparable situations.

Bones are bones, emotions are painful. If this helps the tribe then it might be better to turn the bones over to them. I know that logically science might benefit from keeping them. But science doesn't always have the final say. What people feel matters too.

originally posted by: obscurepanda
a reply to: Heliocentric

Well... yes he does. The people of Europe have been there for something in the flavor of 30k + years or so, and Oetzi's body is already in the hands of the descendants of his people. It's not like at one point the people's of modern Europe kicked out a bunch of natives like we did in the Americas. Well, we might have, but that was Neanderthal man. Kinda not comparable situations.

Well actually modern Europeans have no relationship to the modern humans that first settled in Europe 30ka.
And the HG's that lived in Europe after the last ice age, were replaced by the Neolithic farmers from Turkey and Syria, who were in turn replaced by
the several waves of different indo-European speakers. In the case of the IE movements they were not peaceful at all, with the men and old of whole villages being put to death with the women being sold off to neighboring chieftains. And that was thousands of years before the Celts and Romans and Germanic people spread across Europe displacing earlier people.

originally posted by: obscurepanda
a reply to: Heliocentric

Well... yes he does. The people of Europe have been there for something in the flavor of 30k + years or so, and Oetzi's body is already in the hands of the descendants of his people.

So, does that mean you think that we should put Ötzi in a hole to rot? Or perhaps put him back in the glacier where he was found? Or perhaps hand him over to the person that is genetically his closest relative?

As far as I'm concerned, Ötzi belongs to all of us, not just one group of people but to human history.

I believe a few people here are confusing respect for native peoples with letting them do what they want regardless of consequence. A beautiful opportunity to learn even more about prehistoric tribes is now lost.

The people that are truly honoring KM's memory are the ones that studied him and shared that knowledge. The tribes would not even know of the Kennewick Man's existence had it not been for science.