Creationist - The necessary steps to evolution and what has been proven

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Agartha

I always think it is funny when Creationists make this blanket assertions about scientists and science and general. It really shows how uneducated they are on the subject.

Yep... they just twist facts and truths to accommodate them to their beliefs.

But today I don't care, it is a happy day and I am waving a rainbow flag at them! lol

a reply to: Agartha

True it is a good day and I am happy for our gay brethren.

at the end of the day, like so many debates that rage on here, (climate change, vaccination harm etc.), the sides pretty much fall into two camps. those whose personal belief is based on anecdotes, faith, and the negation of all that goes against them, and those whose beliefs are based in repeatable, falsifiable, proven scientific method. the sides are irreconcilable, while the second group may change its mind based on evidence, the very nature of the first group will not allow them to.

this is why it is important to teach our younger generations the importance of critical thinking, and doing their research. if you are going to debate a subject, don't just study your own argument. research the opposing arguments thoroughly and understand where their conclusions come from. at least then you will actually be qualified to actually have an opinion on the matter. the younger generations are the ones who will be dealing with the aftermath of our follies, and our ignorance should not be inflicted upon them.

now for some light hearted images, since words don't seem to resolve anything anymore.

I actually got tired going through this thread and starring all the sensible answers.
So to all the evo's out there, my apologies for not getting to star you. And for the record, you were all right.

originally posted by: Barcs

WRONG.

I'll stop you right there. It's absolutely hilarious how folks that attack evolution know almost nothing about it. Abiogenesis is not required or necessary for evolution to take place. Life evolves. This is a fact. It happens and will keep happening whether life was created, or life arose naturally. I'm not going to go into any more detail because I'm sure dozens of folks have already ripped you for this one. It's not worth reading the rest when your very first point is dead wrong.

No Barcs its not wrong.
It may be wrong to you
You dont get to set the agenda, if its valid to s then deal with it

You are wrong in this case

Abiogenesis is absolutely imperative for evolution and to deny that is absurd.
Biological evolution needs life and saying otherwise.... your comments disqualify your logic.

Abiogenesis remains valid to many irrelevant what you deem to dictate at others.

Learn to deal with what others believe because you have no authority to dictate

abiogenesis is relevant, the fact you cant answer the concern is the only reason you demand its wrong

Ah well, I'll be the one to post it! Watch from 3:39!

Here's a more serious video [url=http://www.dailymotion.com...]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x21szxu_light-and-dark-light_tech[/url ]

it explains a lot... unlike whacky creationists!

a reply to: borntowatch

Abiogenesis is not required for evolution to take place. Evolution says nothing about the origin of life, only what occurs over generations of life through biogenesis.

Certainly abiogenesis must have taken place to start the process of evolution, but this does not impact the validity of evolution in any way.

The conditions of abiogenesis have been proven to exist in expertiment. Using abiogenesis as a way to attack or try to discredit evolution is illogical.

originally posted by: spygeek
a reply to: borntowatch

Abiogenesis is not required for evolution to take place. Evolution says nothing about the origin of life, only what occurs over generations of life through biogenesis.

Certainly abiogenesis must have taken place to start the process of evolution, but this does not impact the validity of evolution in any way.

The conditions of abiogenesis have been proven to exist in expertiment. Using abiogenesis as a way to attack or try to discredit evolution is illogical.

Where has abiogenesis been proven, (conditions?) thats sounds like religious talk to me


According to your beliefs
Your beliefs, abiogenesis is irrelevant you have chosen your beliefs based on what you have interpreted by others, to you

Incidentally so have I and abiogenesis remains.

Just because you cant answer the questions so choose to remain ignorant to the issue that doesnt mean I choose ignorance.

You dont decide for me, Abiogenesis remains valid

You can protest all you want, abiogenesis stops me believing in evolution

He said: "Abiogenesis is not required for evolution to take place."

You said: "Where has abiogenesis been proven, (conditions?) that sounds like religious talk to me"

Sums you up really. You don't have a view point, just an argumentative stance that constantly changes the goals posts! Your views are not worth listening to - a typical apologist!

So, to sum it up. Life must have been created by God. We don't question who, where, why, what, or how God is, he/she just always has been.

Then there is the universe, extremely vast and possibly infinite, full of all kinds of interesting stuff. This thing HAD to have been created, it couldn't POSSIBLY be the thing that always has been, because things don't just exist, except god that is,

Now we have established it MUST be god that made life, well because we humans haven't been able to do so. We also haven't set foot on Mars, so I guess only god can go to Mars. Thats just simple comparative logic.

Evolution is a farce because we haven't seen a pig sprout wings and start flying. Because that is EXACTLY how evolution works. Not small changes via adaptation becoming permanent changes, nope. Pigs must sprout wings or it is a ploy by the devil, and believing it only makes the devil stronger.

a reply to: Isurrender73

Step 1 - Abiogenesis

Wrong from the moment you stepped from the starting line. Evolution doesn't require abiogenesis; abiogenesis is a hypothesis about how life came to be, evolution is an observable phenomenon and the scientific theory that seeks to explain the phenomenon. More on what that scientific phenomenon is in a second...

Step 2 - Cross Kingdoms
Step 3 - Cross Phylum
Step 4 - Cross Class
Step 5 - Cross Order
Step 6 - Cross Family
Step 7 - Cross Genus
Step 8 - Cross Species

All of your steps are taking you backwards in terms of understanding, not forward.

Evolution is defined as a change in allele frequency over successive generations within a given population. Do you agree or disagree that this phenomenon has been observed?

This is how I use my imagination. They tell me I can't be a scientist because what I my imagine is not what they imagine.

Science isn't about what you can or can't imagine, it's about what you can or cannot provide evidence for.

Both creationists and those that believe that evolution theory are somehow antithetical are wrong. Evolution does not cannot and will not in the future prove one way or another that there is or is not a creator. It cannot do that. it is beyond it's scope.

It does not matter if abiogenisis is demonstrated or not. That cannot prove that God did not cause it to happen or guide it. Beleivers in God are also foolish to try to dispute or debunk the plain evidence of evolution when the evidence for it is comprehensive and overwhelming. that one thing right there makes you like like fools. Your enemy loves it when you appear unreasonable and foolish. Stop it...

Also stop treating the bible as if it were originally written in plain english rather than 4 or five ancient languages that are completely alien to english grammar, syntax, and vocabulary. It wasn't written that way. and some things in the english edition are wrongly translated, have extinct figures of speech, are hidden in ancient semitic euphemisms, and are plainly symbolic with a symbol set that is extinct and completely alien to modern people having passed out of living knowledge for from 2 to 5 thousand years. If you really want to know what the bible says you have to study deeper. ...much deeper if all you do is occasionally go to church with a lazy pastor that throws a few random bible verses at you out of context and selectively to prop up some ideological agenda he has.

Nothing in the bible rules out evolution. evolution isn't an enemy. it's those that use it outside it's proper portfolio to attack the notion of God the creator.

originally posted by: MarsIsRed
He said: "Abiogenesis is not required for evolution to take place."

You said: "Where has abiogenesis been proven, (conditions?) that sounds like religious talk to me"

Sums you up really. You don't have a view point, just an argumentative stance that constantly changes the goals posts! Your views are not worth listening to - a typical apologist!

I dont believe in evolution because I see a failure in science

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Agartha

True it is a good day and I am happy for our gay brethren.

it is a good day and I am happy for our gay brethren.

Though its conditional

Its not marriage in the true sense of the word

I take nothing away from the legal aspect.

I disagree, God bless them sincerely

originally posted by: Vector99
So, to sum it up. Life must have been created by God. We don't question who, where, why, what, or how God is, he/she just always has been.

No Vector, you are lying about what I said
i never said that and you are sincerely disingenuous

STRAWMAN crap

Try starting from a mature learned mature position and you might have a position to argue from

My position is first based on faith, science (you have yet to prove) comes next

originally posted by: stormbringer1701

It does not matter if abiogenisis is demonstrated or not. That cannot prove that God did not cause it to happen or guide it. Beleivers in God are also foolish to try to dispute or debunk the plain evidence of evolution when the evidence for it is comprehensive and overwhelming. that one thing right there makes you like like fools. Your enemy loves it when you appear unreasonable and foolish. Stop it...

Also stop treating the bible as if it were originally written in plain english rather than 4 or five ancient languages that are completely alien to english grammar, syntax, and vocabulary. It wasn't written that way. and some things in the english edition are wrongly translated, have extinct figures of speech, are hidden in ancient semitic euphemisms, and are plainly symbolic with a symbol set that is extinct and completely alien to modern people having passed out of living knowledge for from 2 to 5 thousand years. If you really want to know what the bible says you have to study deeper. ...much deeper if all you do is occasionally go to church with a lazy pastor that throws a few random bible verses at you out of context and selectively to prop up some ideological agenda he has.

Nothing in the bible rules out evolution. evolution isn't an enemy. it's those that use it outside it's proper portfolio to attack the notion of God the creator.

Z

Sadly you are wrong

if you placed more thought than just a few words into your thinking, maybe understood the agnostic position....

PM me if you are dont understand simple christianity

God does not discriminate against those christians who accept evolution, its just not biblical.
Study it,,,sincerely

originally posted by: borntowatch
Abiogenesis is absolutely imperative for evolution and to deny that is absurd.
Biological evolution needs life and saying otherwise.... your comments disqualify your logic.

Biological evolution needs LIFE. It doesn't need life that arose naturally. Evolution is the description for how life changes over time, not how it got here in the first place. After all the years of debating on this site you still don't understand that basic fact about evolution?

Abiogenesis remains valid to many irrelevant what you deem to dictate at others.

What does that even mean? Abiogenesis is unproven, it's a hypothesis, a work in progress. Evolution is not. "Science hasn't figured out XYZ yet," isn't an argument against evolution.

Learn to deal with what others believe because you have no authority to dictate

I have always argued for and fought for freedom of religion. I strongly support being able to believe or worship any version of god, provided it doesn't infringe on the rights of others.

I'm just correcting misunderstandings about science. I didn't make this thread. Evolution supporters didn't make this thread. Open your eyes and look who is actually doing the attacking and trying to dictate their invalid claims about science as truth.

abiogenesis is relevant, the fact you cant answer the concern is the only reason you demand its wrong

So you think that a god creating life that evolves is impossible? If so, why? I thought your god was all powerful?

originally posted by: borntowatch

originally posted by: Vector99
So, to sum it up. Life must have been created by God. We don't question who, where, why, what, or how God is, he/she just always has been.

No Vector, you are lying about what I said
i never said that and you are sincerely disingenuous

STRAWMAN crap

Try starting from a mature learned mature position and you might have a position to argue from

My position is first based on faith, science (you have yet to prove) comes next

Seeing as my post wasn't directed at any one individual, I like how you think I was referring to only what you had said. What I said was my personal (however sarcastically undertoned) thoughts on this thread and the way it is going.

I'm glad you have your faith, good for you. Is yours the right one though? There sure are a whole lot of faiths out there. So either only one is right or they are all wrong, which one is right? And why?

I don't pretend to know the answers, but I certainly don't believe words written by man saying a guy in the sky was bored one day and made everything. It is much more likely in my opinion that the universe is infinite, with infinite possibilities, but we don't have a way to possibly know that yet. We can only know what we have observed, and our capability to view the cosmos is rather new and ever expanding. I'd place us as just starting pre-school in that department.