California Assembly Passes Mandatory Vaccine Bill

a reply to: beezzer
Isn't this the zombie apocalypse we are living in now? You mean its going to get worse? Great......just great!!! How are the kids who already are vaccinated going to get sick? Just curious.

originally posted by: Kapusta
your Thoughts

The US is not the land of the free.
No vaccinations are, or have ever been compulsory in my country, although state funded (free at the point of need) doctors do encourage it. The choice remains with the citizen though.
Haha, you are free to own AR15's but the state will force you to have vaccinations, lol, yeah that's freedom, not.

a reply to: grainofsand

The choice remains with the citizen though.

As it does in the US (and California).

California has passed a law which says that if your child has no medical reason to not be vaccinated, he cannot attend public school if he is not vaccinated. It's a slight change to the prior law, which allowed some rather vague exceptions.

It is the parents' choice. If they choose not to have their children vaccinated, they must accept the consequences (all of them). Private (if they can find one that does not require vaccination) or home schooling. The law says that they do not have the right to endanger others.

a reply to: Phage

Oh behave Phage, that means pretty much the same as forced vaccinations.
If you don't vaccinate then your child cannot have state funded education or some other threat.
There are no restrictions/threats to UK parents. It is up to us and there are no penalties if we refuse vaccination.

That said, we have a very high vaccination rate because most folk here are less paranoid than the US and tend to trust our doctors. But if we refuse there is no penalty at all. That is the difference.

a reply to: grainofsand

Oh behave Phage, that means pretty much the same as forced vaccinations.

No, it doesn't.

If you don't vaccinate then your child cannot have state funded education or some other threat.

No "other" threat.

That said, we have a very high vaccination rate because most folk here are less paranoid than the US and tend to trust our doctors.

Hear, hear.

It is up to us and there are no penalties if we refuse vaccination.

Nor are there any in the US. Except for the increased likelihood of contracting and/or spreading a disease. By not vaccinating your children you are opting out of the system.

As in the UK, public schooling in the US is a right. A right which is accompanied with responsibilities.

a reply to: Phage

Okay, so a parent who refuses vaccination loses the right to education for their child in the state funded system.
That's fine, my point stands, there is no coercion to vaccinate for UK parents, but there is in the US.
...and curiously we have higher vaccination rates.

a reply to: grainofsand

and curiously we have higher vaccination rates.

You already stated the reason for that.

a reply to: Phage

So you agree there is coercion in the US but there is not in the UK?
My original point stands.

a reply to: grainofsand

No, no coercion. Just incentive to get a small minority on board. To help close the gaps.

California's existing vaccination rate for public school children is about 90% (for all required vaccinations). 0.6% are exempt for medical reasons and 1.6% are exempt for "Personal Belief" exemptions. That 1.6% is going away now. A very small minority which amounts to about 2,100 kids.


But, if you're talking about the UK, it sort of depends upon where in the UK you are talking about. It's also a little tricky because there are no required vaccinations. But lets look at MMR as a good example. The average for the UK is comparable to California. But in London, the vaccination rate is only around 80%. Maybe some "coercion" wouldn't be a bad thing.

Of course, your taxes are already pretty high.

www.hscic.gov.uk...

www.cdph.ca.gov...

a reply to: Phage

Coercion/incentive, same horse, just different labels, you know that.
You are a slippery one for sure fella.

*Edit*
There is NO coercion or incentive for UK parents to vaccinate their kids for anything.
I am glad I live in the UK where we can refuse vaccination if we want to, with no penalty.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Phage

Coercion/incentive, same horse, just different labels, you know that.
You are a slippery one for sure fella.

*Edit*
There is NO coercion or incentive for UK parents to vaccinate their kids for anything.
I am glad I live in the UK where we can refuse vaccination if we want to, with no penalty.

There sure is a penalty. I would never gamble with my kids lives.

There is a reason why they average life expectancy went from around 60 in the 1920s to right around 80 in 2012.

1920s: Vaccines become widely available
By the end of the 1920s, vaccines for diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough and tuberculosis (TB) were all available. Vaccination spread across the globe and although these early vaccines were crude, they worked. The first vaccination programmes dramatically reduced the number of deaths from disease, and they were crucial in establishing the concept of preventive public health measures.

Although this may not be a good thing if you are waiting for some old person to retire so a job becomes available...

a reply to: superman2012

Agreed, I got my kid vaccinated, MMR etc, no harmful after effects, fit and healthy young adult now.
My point is that the UK does not force any vaccinations on anybody, the NHS just encourages it. We have a high vaccination rate without compulsion, and yet again 'the land of the free' seems to be a strange statement when they have coercion/incentive/penalties to vaccinate.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: superman2012

Agreed, I got my kid vaccinated, MMR etc, no harmful after effects, fit and healthy young adult now.
My point is that the UK does not force any vaccinations on anybody, the NHS just encourages it. We have a high vaccination rate without compulsion, and yet again 'the land of the free' seems to be a strange statement when they have coercion/incentive/penalties to vaccinate.

The reason vaccines aren't mandatory in schools is that they don't need to be.
Thankfully us Brits understand what's good for us and our kids.

However if the anti-vax lunatic mentality happening in the States comes over here then I would think it would have to be mandated.

originally posted by: Pardon?
However if the anti-vax lunatic mentality happening in the States comes over here then I would think it would have to be mandated.

I can't see that happening anytime soon, the average Brit is not so paranoid and instead tends to listen to peer reviewed research before internet ravings.
Maybe the rabid Christian faith clouds their judgement.

a reply to: Phage

Man, I can't stop thinking you are completely out of your mind.
Everytime I see you on a thread I find you defending officials stories, statements and claims like there were no lies and deception in this world. I'm seriously beginning to believe you are a paid shill... no offence intended though.

You're saying this new bill isn't forcing anyone to vaccinate their childrens. I'd would like people to stop playing with words to make a point. Of course it is forcing parents to vaccinate, what kind of people would deny their little ones the pleasure of experiencing a normal life just like everybody else? Not that being different is wrong or anything, simply that living marginally is very hard for an individual and makes attaining happiness really difficult. No parents would willfully select this kind of life for their childrens. Cmon, you got to know that already.

And for everyone claiming there is no solid proof of vaccination failures, let me simply say this -

I work in a hospital, I'm a Nurse. I've seen a lot of things and heard a lot of stories.
There is one case from a girl I know which I particularely like to speak about because it easily shows the irony and paradox of popular official studies.
The short and sweet story is about a girl who caught the Guillain-Barre syndrom shortly afterwards a vacinnation shot. And by shortly I mean hours. I know of a lot of people who would like to call this a coincidence. The 'out of hand' solution, huh?

But what I like the most about this example is the fact that every researches I was teached about in school and, why not add, mainstream medias, strongly claim - even though they are forced to put this possible health threatening reality in the side-effects list- strongly claim that there is no correlation at all between the vaccination processus and this syndrome. Too hard to establish an official connection.
Sure it is, why would they publicly acknowledge a link between Guillain-Barre syndrom, or even Autism for that matter, when they know it would make most people turn away from the pharmaceutical industry? They are not that stupid.
So they play on words, and makes people think the correlation is inexistant when in reality it happens all around the globe. Add this to the fact some other countries are actively releasing new studies about vaccination and its possible dark consequences.

I don't know of anything in this world which is entirely positive, even sex. Why would vaccination be so different?

In the end, it's painful for me to realize people are in acknowledgement in front of such a freedom suppressive bill.
NOBODY should ever decide what goes in and out of my family.
NOBODY should ever accept a society where other people limit the freedom of others in the name of fear, science, 'protection', etc.
Even more when those individuals are fuc---- moneywhore bureaucrats.

originally posted by: St0rD
a reply to: Phage

Man, I can't stop thinking you are completely out of your mind.
Everytime I see you on a thread I find you defending officials stories, statements and claims like there were no lies and deception in this world. I'm seriously beginning to believe you are a paid shill... no offence intended though.

You're saying this new bill isn't forcing anyone to vaccinate their childrens. I'd would like people to stop playing with words to make a point. Of course it is forcing parents to vaccinate, what kind of people would deny their little ones the pleasure of experiencing a normal life just like everybody else? Not that being different is wrong or anything, simply that living marginally is very hard for an individual and makes attaining happiness really difficult. No parents would willfully select this kind of life for their childrens. Cmon, you got to know that already.

And for everyone claiming there is no solid proof of vaccination failures, let me simply say this -

I work in a hospital, I'm a Nurse. I've seen a lot of things and heard a lot of stories.
There is one case from a girl I know which I particularely like to speak about because it easily shows the irony and paradox of popular official studies.
The short and sweet story is about a girl who caught the Guillain-Barre syndrom shortly afterwards a vacinnation shot. And by shortly I mean hours. I know of a lot of people who would like to call this a coincidence. The 'out of hand' solution, huh?

But what I like the most about this example is the fact that every researches I was teached about in school and, why not add, mainstream medias, strongly claim - even though they are forced to put this possible health threatening reality in the side-effects list- strongly claim that there is no correlation at all between the vaccination processus and this syndrome. Too hard to establish an official connection.
Sure it is, why would they publicly acknowledge a link between Guillain-Barre syndrom, or even Autism for that matter, when they know it would make most people turn away from the pharmaceutical industry? They are not that stupid.
So they play on words, and makes people think the correlation is inexistant when in reality it happens all around the globe. Add this to the fact some other countries are actively releasing new studies about vaccination and its possible dark consequences.

I don't know of anything in this world which is entirely positive, even sex. Why would vaccination be so different?

In the end, it's painful for me to realize people are in acknowledgement in front of such a freedom suppressive bill.
NOBODY should ever decide what goes in and out of my family.
NOBODY should ever accept a society where other people limit the freedom of others in the name of fear, science, 'protection', etc.
Even more when those individuals are fuc---- moneywhore bureaucrats.

Lots of anti-vax misconceptions there but I'll just deal with the one I've highlighted.

Ever heard of the RotaShield vaccine?
It was a vaccine for rotavirus which was recalled after it was released due to a temporal association with intussusception in infants.
The incidence of this was pretty low but high enough to make the CDC withdraw it.
Completely withdraw it. Shelves stripped of it, the lot.

www.cdc.gov...

So what's stopping them doing the same with other vaccines?
Because there's no evidence that the vaccines cause what you believe they do?

a reply to: Pardon?

I don't care what you or I believe. But the fact remains:
they are claiming there are no links in certain diseases when indeed there are.

I'm not saying they are all evil.. simply stating the sad truth. Some vaccines can be harmful one way or another and although this is a gambling guess, would you give your child a flu shot if it was officialy acknowleged it could give autism - even in a 1/10 000 odd? I wouldn't.

originally posted by: St0rD
a reply to: Pardon?

I don't care what you or I believe. But the fact remains:
they are claiming there are no links in certain diseases when indeed there are.

I'm not saying they are all evil.. simply stating the sad truth. Some vaccines can be harmful one way or another and although this is a gambling guess, would you give your child a flu shot if it was officialy acknowleged it could give autism - even in a 1/10 000 odd? I wouldn't.

You've missed the point.
Spectacularly.

If a vaccine is harmful it will be withdrawn.
That's what has happened and will happen again.
The RotaShield was withdrawn even though the chance of something happening was very small.
The tolerance levels for vaccine safety are extremely tight.

But there has to be causal or at the very least temporal association.
The "fact" that you're stating isn't a fact at all as there's no evidence to support it.
It may be correlative but that isn't proof.
It's your belief and that alone that there is.

If it was proven there was a 1 in 10,000 chance that a shot could "give autism" then that shot wouldn't be available.
But there isn't anyway so your question is moot.

The chance of a severe adverse reaction from any vaccine is one in millions.
The chance of a severe event from a vaccine preventable disease can be as low as 1 in 20.
I don't need to be a gambling man to work out the relative odds.
There's no gambling involved, just rational, common sense.

a reply to: St0rD

NOBODY should ever decide what goes in and out of my family.

If you are a health professional (nurse) and you still don't understand why vaccinations help, then I'm even more glad that this will be law. My wife is a nurse. Her and all her nurse pals all don't understand why people would listen to Jenny McCarthy over science, facts, research and the hundreds of millions of cases of people that are vaccinated without any problems.

The fact stands that there is no research, no proof to back up your ridiculous statement.

The more this thread advances, the more pro-vax it becomes. There's is nothing to debate anymore since it seems everybody made up their mind already.

Delusional sheep vs the paranoids.
No one really wins.