Affordable Care Act - Obamacare

a reply to: kruphix

Who in the hell said anything about being poor? I said I can't afford health care. An extra 400 bucks a month is substantial for me and that's what I paid until canceling my policy a long time ago, way before the ACA came along.

I know very well how to prioritize my finances, thank you very much. I don't need you or anyone else telling ME how to spend MY money. I live a comfortable life and have no problems paying for it. Why should I be FORCED to purchase something that I can't afford or be fined/taxed?

I've needed medical care several times and always worked with the hospital on a payment plan, same as I do now, just with and added tax/fine. How in the hell does the tax/fine help me in any way?

The subsidies aren't free, others are paying for them so I benefit. I ain't asking nobody for nothing, if I can't get it on my own! I guess personal accountability is out the damn window in this upside down world...

originally posted by: BlackboxInquiry

originally posted by: bucsarg
I am not affected by Obama care. But I am interested in understanding the reasons why so many people believe it's so wrong. I would appreciated getting replies that are fact based reasons why the Affordable Care Act is wrong for the American public.

I'll give one, personal, and very good example.

The word "Affordable" - I think they should have looked up that word before they used it. In my case, it was anything but 'affordable'.

I pay roughly 1k per month to cover my entire family, total of 7 people.

So, when the 'affordable' care act came out, (though I thought then and still think now, that's it's *illegal* for the Gov't to *require* any Citizen to purchase a product or service from a 3rd party, with out a proper, no-penalty 'opt out' for those who don't wish to participate...it's a medical ponzi scheme IMHO), I decided to go and check it out, to see if all the hype and what turned out to be complete bull@#! promises were true...

So, for my family of 7....

Current: Approx. 1k/month. $25 per visit, prescriptions about $15-20, depending upon generic or name brand. Most labs, free.

"Affordable": $2495/month, and that's with less coverage, and not including additional *more* out of pocket expenses.

How's that 'affordable'?

Not the best with math on the planet, but can someone show me just how almost $2500 per month is more affordable or less expensive than $1,000 a month? Even if we all got sick twice a week, with doc visits and prescriptions on the current plan, we would come nowhere near that premium....even with a hospital stay for each, every week.

Easy... the law didn't say who it was going to be affordable for!

My favorite liberal quote on Obamacare was some ditzy chick stating "I was all for Obamacare until I found out I was paying for it."

a reply to: kruphix

Actually it was some Democrats and one Independent that opposed and killed the Public Option.

The Senate couldn't get the 60 votes needed to pass the ACA with the PO included.

Zero Republicans voted in favor of the ACA anyway.

Democrats own the ACA as it is today.

I don't like ACA/Obamacare aka SCOTUScare because the Med/Insurance/Pharma and Hospital lobbies bought and paid for a partisan Congress, President and voting bloc via propaganda to not address and deal with true cost reform.

All they've done is add another costly layer to an already corrupt and expensive system that has so many exclusions to basic consumer protection laws as to make any criminal enterprise seem positively angelic by comparison.

As I've said in other threads the ENTIRE system needs to be beholden to consumer protection, monopoly and non-collusion statutes that any other type of business in the country has to abide by.

As it stands they can virtually charge whatever they want for whatever procedure is done and present a bill after the fact without patient/representative permission. Drugs costs are whatever the market will bear not having any semblance of fair pricing. Insurance just runs the calcs and supports the corruption so long as they earn their percentage.

On top of that we now have to bear cost of supporting an entire government bureaucracy that was wholly unnecessary had true cost reform been accomplished.

originally posted by: kruphix


Oh come on, things were not okay before the ACA was passed. If you believe that, you are looking at the past through rose colored glasses. Honestly, that is probably the most absurd statement I have heard about the ACA....that things were great before it was passed.

It would be cool if you listened to the discussion you are in. Before Obamacare, I could afford insurance($175). I got good coverage. (didn't think so at the time, but now, it was golden) Now, after Obamacare, it will cost me $425 and the coverage sucks. I would have to pay 3K out of pocket before insurance does a thing. that's like gambling that I will have a life threatening illness, and if I don't, I loose. Plus, now that I cannot afford it, I get punnished with a fine.

Now you seem to think you have all the answers here. Please explain to me why I wasn't better off before?

Here's the thing...some people, like you, just aren't going to be happy with anything Obama does. You will ignore facts, you will ignore data, and you will just keep on with the talking points.

Um, no. I am a republican, I like to bitch about democrats. When slick Willie was getting blown in the oval office, I made fun of that. But I was doing GREAT with the $, so I liked Clinton. It's cool to think you are really smart and know all about everyone, but sometimes, it's best to listen first, and speak second.

The ACA isn't perfect, but it's working...uninsured rates have dropped dramatically. If we had the public option, which the Republicans made sure we didn't, we would be in much better shape. If all States would have expanded Medicare, which the majority that didn't were due to Republican Governors "protesting" the ACA, we would be in much better shape.

they didn't, and I am not.

And here is the thing...we can't go back to how it was before. That is the hidden beauty of how the ACA was written, and the Republicans know this...that is why their talk about repealing it is just to please their base. We have a few options...make the ACA work as it is, modify the ACA to include things like the public option and force all States to expand Medicare, or scrap the ACA and go to single payer which would be Medicare for all.

There is no going back...that is just logistically impossible.

And that is the real problem, and why Obama will go down in history as the worst president ever. (and Carter is on that list)

Polish that turd all you like. Make it shiny. Just don't smell it.

a reply to: kruphix

Super majority wasn't necessary.

The Senate got the 60 votes without Republicans.

Super majority (67 votes) is usually used to over ride a Presidential Veto.

originally posted by: manuelram16
a reply to: kruphix

Good for you being in the 'Pencil Pusher' crowd, the gov will take care of you from cradle to grave,
But there is a real world out there were people actually work and yes reality sucks.

Anybody ask yourselves why Healthcare in Canada is lower than USA ?, even in Mexico there are a lot of MD trained in the US and their costs are 20% of USA... one thing they don't have is Lawyers and Insurance companies jacking up the cost to exorbitant levels, and to add insult to injury why is GE & Congress exempt from Obamacare ?

I love assumptions. Sorry to disappoint, but I work for what I have just like everyone else. Perhaps I make better financial decisions and so I'm not burdened by some of the hardships as others, but I don't rely on the government for my well being. However, I don't see anything wrong with the government helping those people out who need help.

YES...let's be like Canada...best suggestion in this thread yet. Where do we sign up? I wonder...do you know what healthcare system Canada has in place???

Oh, and by the way...no one is exempt from the ACA...again...that is just the Right Wing talking points corrupting your view of things.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: kruphix

Super majority wasn't necessary.

The Senate got the 60 votes without Republicans.

Super majority (67 votes) is usually used to over ride a Presidential Veto.

Super majority is needed for cloture. If Republicans absolutely didn't want the ACA to pass, they had all the power to prevent it.

Please educate yourself on the process.

Why not healthcare for the masses ? Just like anything welfare , they get free stuff and the workers pay for it.Makes for good voting numbers for the party involved. Hmm...free stuff, we are voting for him...

a reply to: network dude

Well, thanks, but it doesn't work for me to see my child with a congenital heart defect, who has had three open heart surgeries, have to make the decision to become impoverished so as to meet Medicaid standards OR be without insurance entirely.

Sorry. The old way was "Death Panels" in the form of Insurance Companies. I couldn't get health insurance for 10! years because I had the audacity to have cancer in my 20's.

So NO, it did not work just fine. It could be better now, and if we had a responsible and responsive legislature, improvements to the law could be made. Instead we have partisan politics that get us nowhere.

AB

a reply to: introvert

True. Except I'm forced onto that program whether I like it or not.( Especially since my employer can no long offer a company health program)

Also, a person of 'wealth'?? Really?

It would be a little more accurate to say the next rung up from 'poor'. To wit, lower middle class rather than a person of wealth. Additionally, many of the programs offered, via Medicare or not, are co-pays as well as out of pocket deductables.

In short, I have to pay a monthly premium for Medicare, an 80-20% split, up front deductables, 2 to 3 times more for a supplemental plan than the original medicare...THEN I have until age 67 when a medical panel decides whether the cost of the service is justified based on life-span expectancy-also known as the death panel.

In exchange for this 'wonderful' service, I pay more and give up my freedom of choice....

Case closed.

originally posted by: kruphix

Super majority is needed for cloture. If Republicans absolutely didn't want the ACA to pass, they had all the power to prevent it.

Please educate yourself on the process.

The Last Word

In 1975, the Senate reduced the number of votes required for cloture from two-thirds to three-fifths, or 60 of the current one hundred senators.


Filibuster and Cloture

Gotta admit, it's pretty galling to see the crowing from the "winners" here.

It boils down to "well gee I'm sorry to hear you pay way more for health coverage than you used to but hey now I have coverage and that's pretty great so why aren't you happy about it? You must be a republican."

Except take out the "I'm sorry" part because I haven't heard that once.

How very liberal of some people.

in my opinion shuffling the costs around isn't gonna solve anything? it just kind of blurs up the costs more? ya some people managed to get insurance coverage where they couldn't afford it before.
but....
how many are finding that their premiums went up and not down? how many have had their deductables increase, how much more money is the gov't sinking into the overall healthcare costs?

what we needed was for all these costs to decrease across the board, what the heck every other nation out there seems to get by paying a heck of alot less. you'd think that the affordable care act would do more to make healthcare affordable, not make it more expensive!

As a young, generally healthy male who has never had any major medical issues and has rarely seen a doctor for the past several years, but doesn't make a whole lot of money; My premiums have doubled, my co-pays have doubled, and my deductible has doubled since the passing of this bill. I am now paying double what I used to for a service I rarely ever use, and when I do need it I will no longer be able to afford a doctor or hospital visit, much less the medicine I may be prescribed.

All this, and it's illegal for me to NOT pay for it.

THAT'S why the ACA is a giant pile of... Crap.

a reply to: Aldakoopa

Yea but a few other people now have insurance and they didn't before. Why aren't you happy for them?

You must be a republican and hate your fellow man.

*eyeroll*

originally posted by: kruphix

Super majority is needed for cloture. If Republicans absolutely didn't want the ACA to pass, they had all the power to prevent it.

Please educate yourself on the process.

Here's the "educated" part.....>>

On December 23, the Senate voted 60–39 to end debate on the bill: a cloture vote to end the filibuster. The bill then passed, also 60–39, on December 24, 2009, with all Democrats and two independents voting for it, and all Republicans against (except Jim Bunning, who did not vote). The bill was endorsed by the AMA and AARP.


PPACA

a reply to: Shamrock6

You didn't read my earlier post, then.

I AM sorry this isn't working out for a lot of people! I'm extremely grateful it has helped my family considerably. We were paying $1200 per month just to have insurance. That would have increased, and did increase $100 per month annually for several years on a row. We now pay just over $600 per month for a family of four due solely to the ACA.

I am very sorry it has caused you hardship
I wish the law could be modified to make it more fair for everyone. I wish there were other options that included people both poor and middle/upper middle that sometimes fall through the cracks of the ACA into not-so-good places. Believe me, I've been there and I know how hard it is!

a reply to: AboveBoard

I am truly happy you now have coverage. And I am very sorry to hear about the raw deal you were dealt. It's nothing you asked for or deserved, it just happened. What I wish is that someone found a way to help you and the VERY FEW like you, rather than screw all the rest just to make it so you could have insurance. From your perspective, I fully understand your position. I just wish the Democrats looked at those like me before they did their magic.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: BlackboxInquiry

originally posted by: bucsarg
I am not affected by Obama care. But I am interested in understanding the reasons why so many people believe it's so wrong. I would appreciated getting replies that are fact based reasons why the Affordable Care Act is wrong for the American public.

I'll give one, personal, and very good example.

The word "Affordable" - I think they should have looked up that word before they used it. In my case, it was anything but 'affordable'.



I pay roughly 1k per month to cover my entire family, total of 7 people.

So, when the 'affordable' care act came out, (though I thought then and still think now, that's it's *illegal* for the Gov't to *require* any Citizen to purchase a product or service from a 3rd party, with out a proper, no-penalty 'opt out' for those who don't wish to participate...it's a medical ponzi scheme IMHO), I decided to go and check it out, to see if all the hype and what turned out to be complete bull@#! promises were true...

So, for my family of 7....

Current: Approx. 1k/month. $25 per visit, prescriptions about $15-20, depending upon generic or name brand. Most labs, free.

"Affordable": $2495/month, and that's with less coverage, and not including additional *more* out of pocket expenses.

How's that 'affordable'?

Not the best with math on the planet, but can someone show me just how almost $2500 per month is more affordable or less expensive than $1,000 a month? Even if we all got sick twice a week, with doc visits and prescriptions on the current plan, we would come nowhere near that premium....even with a hospital stay for each, every week.

Easy... the law didn't say who it was going to be affordable for!

My favorite liberal quote on Obamacare was some ditzy chick stating "I was all for Obamacare until I found out I was paying for it."

LOL!

Don't take this the wrong way, but I LOVE YOU! lol

Excuse me, I need to go and clean this drink off my screen...lol