Protesters halt construction of Thirty Meter Telescope (TMT) atop Mauna Kea, Hawaii

a reply to: Zaphod58

He was fulfilling his prophecy. He united the islands for a very special purpose. Kamehameha killed just as others have in history. What does this have to do with TMT?

a reply to: ckhk3

The question was asked, and it was answered as if the only slaughter was at the hands of the US, when it wasn't.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Mmmk, I somehow missed that post.

originally posted by: ckhk3
a reply to: NavyDoc

It's when America overthrew the Kingdom of Hawaii and illegally seized lands.

That's not true. It happened in 1789-1790, before there really was an America.

originally posted by: ckhk3
a reply to: Zaphod58

He was fulfilling his prophecy. He united the islands for a very special purpose. Kamehameha killed just as others have in history. What does this have to do with TMT?

Oh, I'm sorry, he had a good excuse for his genocide, that makes it all better. Sounds like "manifest destiny." Now where have I heard that phrase before?

a reply to: NavyDoc

Your saying the victim hood that you speak of happened before the overthrow? And that is why there is protesting on Mauna A Wakea? Please clarify.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Genocide!? That's far reaching. Please educate yourself before you make ignorant statements. What kupuna do you get your information from?

originally posted by: ckhk3
a reply to: NavyDoc

Genocide!? That's far reaching. Please educate yourself before you make ignorant statements. What kupuna do you get your information from?

Groan. Elders who repeat the same old bullcrap or actually documented history? Kamehameha was a brutal dictator who murderedhis way across the Hawaiian Islands and murdered opposing royal families so he could be in charge. That is a fact.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: ckhk3
a reply to: NavyDoc

Genocide!? That's far reaching. Please educate yourself before you make ignorant statements. What kupuna do you get your information from?

Groan. Elders who repeat the same old bullcrap or actually documented history? Kamehameha was a brutal dictator who murderedhis way across the Hawaiian Islands and murdered opposing royal families so he could be in charge. That is a fact.

You don't even know Hawaiian history beyond the idealized cartoon version. Pop over to Bishop Museum and do some basic reading.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Through documented history and experts in this field, the facts are that Kamehameha started a civil war to unite the islands under one rule to prevent the ha'ole from taking advantage of the land. What elders do you speak of? First our land was taken, then our culture practices and language was banned, and now you want to dictate to me what happened in Hawaiian history, my history; ridiculous.

originally posted by: ckhk3
a reply to: VariableConstant

It may not halt construction in the long run but we have made some accomplishments. TMT will be the last telescope constructed on land and older telescopes will be decommissioned.

Hooray!! Take that science! How DARE you try to forweard human knowledge!

originally posted by: ckhk3
a reply to: 3danimator2014

Fairytales? Maybe you should educate yourself on Hawaiian history, culture, and practices before you express ignorant opinions.

Irrelevant. Superstition=fairy tales and has no place in 2015.

originally posted by: ckhk3
a reply to: NavyDoc

Through documented history and experts in this field, the facts are that Kamehameha started a civil war to unite the islands under one rule to prevent the ha'ole from taking advantage of the land. What elders do you speak of? First our land was taken, then our culture practices and language was banned, and now you want to dictate to me what happened in Hawaiian history, my history; ridiculous.

Obviously you don't know your own history then. Kamehameha started a war of genocide to consolidate power to himself.

The royal family, his descendants, gradually sold out to western interests without a single shot fired. Kamehameha killed orders of magnitude more Hawaiians than the AMericans.

It'd be different if there weren't already plenty of important telescopes already in place and operating on the mountaintop. Build it and they will come (to either observe or protest apparently).

a reply to: 3danimator2014

Probably coming from the same people who's ancestors overthrew Hawaii.

a reply to: 3danimator2014

What Fairytales and superstitions are you talking about?? Artifacts, documented history?

a reply to: NavyDoc

I probably know Hawaiian history and culture better than anyone here. I was born into it and live it every day. What are your roots is Hawaii, and like I said who were your kupuna (not elders)?

a reply to: Aleister

Now this is a valid argument. There are 12 telescopes right now and some aren't operational or being used anymore, they just let it sit there. Some are protesting because they feel that instead of digging into new land they should have built on to land that was already constructed on. They are also building more on Haleakala, some feel that they built enough telescopes already, almost 20 in all. Some feel that science got what they wanted no matter how the people felt about it. They feel that from the very beginning when they voiced their concerns they're was no compromise or talking about it, they just did what they wanted to do.
They are also thinking about building cabins and infrastructure for the astronomers so they don't need to make the long trip back to kona or hilo.

originally posted by: ckhk3
a reply to: NavyDoc

I probably know Hawaiian history and culture better than anyone here. I was born into it and live it every day. What are your roots is Hawaii, and like I said who were your kupuna (not elders)?

Uh-hu. And a lot of what many native Hawaiians think they know of their own history is a false, idealized version not based in reality.

a reply to: NavyDoc

I encourage you to please make this aware to the university of Hawaii. That the Hawaiian newspapers from the 1800's are fake, the cook collection is fake, the diplomatic correspondence with other counties are fake, the HMCS has fake documents, the SIM has fake documents, the HHS has fake documents, with many more sources who hold official and original documents, and those that hold doctorate degrees in Hawaiian studies and are teaching are wrong. I'm sure Mrs. Kanahele and Quentin can learn a lot from you.