What should the rest of the world do about America's Climate change denial?

originally posted by: pl3bscheese
a reply to: ProfessorChaos

You from an alternate reality or something? When I was a kid it was all about global warming. Nothing but a few outliers thought we were going into a freeze. Floods are going to happen the same as warming. It's part of it.

It started out with An Inconvenient Truth style alarmism that featured the planet with a fever of billions of degrees and polar bears drowning because some photographer took a convenient photo of some on what looked like a sadly melted block of ice, a photo taken drastically out of context. Then, we were all going to burn up and die and this:



Was going to be New York (and every other coastal city on the planet). Oh, and kids in the UK were never going to see snow.

Then we had some abnormally cold and snowy winters all over, so suddenly, it became Climate Change instead of Global Warming, and we now had to talk about how every single weather event that was bad was our fault.

Thing is that climate always changes, and none of the predicted changes have happened exactly like they've been predicted to happen. During the Texas drought, we were being told that Texas would never see rain again, new normal and all. Now Texas is covered in way too much water.

So now again the narrative is starting to shift with recent articles and papers talking about how the giant sauropod dinosaurs avoided the equator in the Triassic because it was too extreme because of Global Warming (carbon levels in the atmosphere were much higher then) - extreme droughts and extreme floods and wildfires. So only some predators lived down there. The implication being that this is where we're going and we won't be able to adapt to it, leaving aside that we are neither dinosaurs nor megafauna.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: ProfessorChaos

I think it's looking more ICE AGE than Warming, judging by the precipitation and FREEZING weather records last year.

Don't worry about it. They'll change it again once more people stop being scared.

***ETA***

I still find it hilarious how much stock the average person puts in this. We still can't reliably predict the weather for tomorrow, but somehow, we can be completely sure of how it will be hundreds, even thousands of years into the future.

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos

You are making my point by saying you were told of a different climate apocalypse while growing up.

No, I'm not. My father wasn't told of an ice age when he was a child. There's been countless threads on this. There was a short period of time that a minority of scientists thought we were going into an ice age. There's a whole lot of scientists out there, and a few of them bizarrely still think this.

Let me make my challenge more clear. I want you to show me the evidence that the majority of scientists thought the earth was heading for a freeze. Don't show me a snippet here or there from history, I'm sure wild claims can be found if you look hard enough. Show me where the majority thought this at any point during the second to third quarters of last century.

I don't know if you remember incorrectly, were taught incorrectly by a teacher or two, or what, but that was never the consensus of scientists.

a reply to: ProfessorChaos

FARMERS Almanac over the evening news ANYDAY...

a reply to: ketsuko

Oh god, how can you live with yourself spewing out so many logical inconsistencies? I just don't get how someone can be so jaded and picky with their information, and seriously think they are somehow being even the slightest bit reasonable.

No way I'm going to pick apart the dozens of fallacies in your argument. You would come over the top with a dozen or two more. So not worth the efforts, but I'm certain some people can see them the same as I can. Wow!

SEE?www.almanac.com...

a reply to: pl3bscheese

I'm just recounting the history of Climate Change as it's been fed to me. If there are fallacies and inconsistencies there, it's because that's what they've presented to us.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: GUITARPLAYER
Kill every last freakin American!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
a reply to: LDragonFire

I'm sure any lingering radiation from the extensive bombing will be much less damaging than all that horrid carbon polluting we've done.

Yes and we would not have to salt their lands they would all freakin die from the fallout!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YIP YIP YAHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

originally posted by: pl3bscheese

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos

You are making my point by saying you were told of a different climate apocalypse while growing up.

No, I'm not. My father wasn't told of an ice age when he was a child. There's been countless threads on this. There was a short period of time that a minority of scientists thought we were going into an ice age. There's a whole lot of scientists out there, and a few of them bizarrely still think this.

Let me make my challenge more clear. I want you to show me the evidence that the majority of scientists thought the earth was heading for a freeze. Don't show me a snippet here or there from history, I'm sure wild claims can be found if you look hard enough. Show me where the majority thought this at any point during the second to third quarters of last century.

I don't know if you remember incorrectly, were taught incorrectly by a teacher or two, or what, but that was never the consensus of scientists.

You dont have to look very hard , google, or pull news reels from the time, yes it WAS all over the news.........

And yes there was heavy warning against it, much like a lot of things....

and yes it DOES change with the times.......

more proof these "scientist" really dont have a damn clue...........

That doesnt mean w shouldnt reduce polution or take care of the planet (i cant believe i have to qualify that to satisfy the "you hate the planet people)

a reply to: pl3bscheese

It should be obvious that if you teach a generation of children that something is real, that as they grow up and some become scientists, they will gravitate toward that way of thinking. There's your majority.

Let's not forget, the universe is expanding, tell the world... no wait, it's collapsing, tell the world... no, maybe it's just sitting still, tell the world...

Climate alarmists want everyone to change their evil ways, yet say it's already too late.

This is fear mongering, and not worth even the smallest percentage of my daily worry quota.

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos
a reply to: pl3bscheese

It should be obvious that if you teach a generation of children that something is real, that as they grow up and some become scientists, they will gravitate toward that way of thinking. There's your majority.

So you're doing a 180 on your previous stance? You do realize this, right?

Let's not forget, the universe is expanding, tell the world... no wait, it's collapsing, tell the world... no, maybe it's just sitting still, tell the world...

How the hell do you o from that first paragraph to this next one? A generation is told, and so goes on to tell, except they don't they say the opposite, except they don't. WHAT??

Climate alarmists want everyone to change their evil ways, yet say it's already too late.

This is fear mongering, and not worth even the smallest percentage of my daily worry quota.

You're so incredibly far gone, man. I can't even stand to hear this anymore. Boggles the mind. Are you on meds or something? Whatever the case, soooo not worth the efforts, but at least you're leaving this here for everyone to see. That makes two out of their gords climate-denialists easy to see in this page. Thanks people. You've done good work.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Agreed. I have no problem with cleaning up after ourselves at all. I think it's the least we can do, but I'm not going to swallow this bucketful of B.S. that they're trying to force on me.

a reply to: pl3bscheese

Ha! Forget leaving it here, I post my 'denialism' everywhere I go whenever it comes up.

Shaming me for not believing what I feel is bullsnip, doesn't work, sorry.

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: LDragonFire

I assume you're referring to the republicans who pander to the uneducated who think that spewing pollutants into the atmosphere won't change our planet. It just revolves around oil and lobbyist protecting theirs profits by feeding propaganda. Its the reason for a lot of our stagnant issues in this country. Trying to stop the oil companies money machine is a really hard task to accomplish.

While some may be in denial in the USA the Chinese government is apathetic

We had a grace period earlier while the denialists were out listening to Rush Limbaugh or zoning out to Fox. But, alas, so it begins.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
Maybe the world could lead by example. Maybe China could reduce their pollution levels, even if it has an adverse effect on their economy. Maybe Brazil could stop clear-cutting rainforest and start replanting. Maybe other countries could organize an international effort to clean up that plastic island in the Pacific, and shame the US into joining.

If the US can't be a leader, maybe they can be a follower.

You have to remember that China went through their industrial revolution much later than most of the rest of the world. And they're just pulling out of it. Now they are at the forefront of fighting global warming...not because they want to save the planet, but because of how bad they're air pollution is. They understand that it's inter related.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: LDragonFire

I assume you're referring to the republicans who pander to the uneducated who think that spewing pollutants into the atmosphere won't change our planet. It just revolves around oil and lobbyist protecting theirs profits by feeding propaganda. Its the reason for a lot of our stagnant issues in this country. Trying to stop the oil companies money machine is a really hard task to accomplish.

While some may be in denial in the USA the Chinese government is apathetic

We had a grace period earlier while the denialists were out listening to Rush Limbaugh or zoning out to Fox. But, alas, so it begins.

Theres a difference between polluting the environment and it causing man made climate change.........

yes pollution bad, yes poisoning our water is bad.........that doesnt mean its going to cause the world to turn into a desert.....

Your post and the one you replied to are a shining example of how progressive have tried to make them the same, in order to marginalize or demonize anyone who has a different opinion.......

Bravo

a reply to: pl3bscheese

I certainly understand your scepticism regarding what was "News" in the 70s.
Unfortunately the young of today are even More manipulated by media, than we ever were in the 70s.

Anyway, believe it.....in the 1970s NO-ONE even mentioned Anything about Global warming.

The Topics were...The Coming Ice age.....Pollution.....Overpopulation (ZPG etc)....they were the topics...and the occasional War and African famine (nothings changed there).

You seem to have missed the thread a week or so ago, in which the TV program "In Search Of" with My Spock, from 1977, featured the Coming Ice Age....where Genuine Real Scientists, thru study of Ice cores and Ocean core samples said the Ice Age is due NOW.......Much Like the San Andreas fault collapse and the Yellowstone Caldera explosion.

We Kids and young people of the 1970s, are the reason YOUR generation has clean air to breath, good water, fuel efficient cars, less pollution overall etc.......

I hope you want to improve Humanity...just like we did....the Star Trek Generation, the Womens Lib generation, the Anti War generation, the Human Rights generation....

What will your generation bring to the table?.............even better things I hope.

Did you know that back in those days, Companies use to DUMP ALL their Nuclear waste, poison chemicals and other deadly waste into the Ocean!!! in steel 44 gallon drums!!!!

It takes 30 years or so for those drums to rust away..................

They stopped doing that after environmental campaigns by the young people at the time....and of course famous old diver Jacques Cousteau.

Dont forget, David Suzuki, Neil deGrasse Tyson and 1000s of other Earthists and Humanists....are of the 70s generation.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: LDragonFire

I assume you're referring to the republicans who pander to the uneducated who think that spewing pollutants into the atmosphere won't change our planet. It just revolves around oil and lobbyist protecting theirs profits by feeding propaganda. Its the reason for a lot of our stagnant issues in this country. Trying to stop the oil companies money machine is a really hard task to accomplish.

While some may be in denial in the USA the Chinese government is apathetic

We had a grace period earlier while the denialists were out listening to Rush Limbaugh or zoning out to Fox. But, alas, so it begins.

Theres a difference between polluting the environment and it causing man made climate change.........

yes pollution bad, yes poisoning our water is bad.........that doesnt mean its going to cause the world to turn into a desert.....

Your post and the one you replied to are a shining example of how progressive have tried to make them the same, in order to marginalize or demonize anyone who has a different opinion.......

Bravo

"you are welcome to your own opinions, but not your own facts." When it comes to science, public policy, and action, opinions not aligned with the evidence or science cannot be admitted.

Because policy affects us all, "this is my opinion" is an insufficient argument. That is true for virtually all policy areas. We can't make policy on folk rhetoric, denialism, anti-science, or what makes people comfortable. The more serious a policy topic, the less acceptable is it for people to try to support policies or resist policies based on their own ignorance.

Other examples in this regard would be things like medical policy, or war, or education, food security/nutrition etc. Things that are critical. A lay person doesn't get to block needed food policy because they are all like "this is my opinion!!!"

Environmentalism covers it all. Yes, there are different kinds of human impacts on the environment. Dumping chemicals in a river is not the same as human-caused climate change. Climate change is but a sub-branch of all the greater umbrella. Yes, one can believe that some elements of environmentalism are real and some aren't. All of it is human impact on the environment, the evidence and science regarding it, and how said impact will come around to bite us in the ass.

But the evidence for anthropogenic climate change is overwhelming at this point.

originally posted by: gort51
a reply to: pl3bscheese

I certainly understand your scepticism regarding what was "News" in the 70s.
Unfortunately the young of today are even More manipulated by media, than we ever were in the 70s.

Anyway, believe it.....in the 1970s NO-ONE even mentioned Anything about Global warming.

The Topics were...The Coming Ice age.....Pollution.....Overpopulation (ZPG etc)....they were the topics...and the occasional War and African famine (nothings changed there).

You seem to have missed the thread a week or so ago, in which the TV program "In Search Of" with My Spock, from 1977, featured the Coming Ice Age....where Genuine Real Scientists, thru study of Ice cores and Ocean core samples said the Ice Age is due NOW.......Much Like the San Andreas fault collapse and the Yellowstone Caldera explosion.

We Kids and young people of the 1970s, are the reason YOUR generation has clean air to breath, good water, fuel efficient cars, less pollution overall etc.......

I hope you want to improve Humanity...just like we did....the Star Trek Generation, the Womens Lib generation, the Anti War generation, the Human Rights generation....

What will your generation bring to the table?.............even better things I hope.

Did you know that back in those days, Companies use to DUMP ALL their Nuclear waste, poison chemicals and other deadly waste into the Ocean!!! in steel 44 gallon drums!!!!

It takes 30 years or so for those drums to rust away..................

They stopped doing that after environmental campaigns by the young people at the time....and of course famous old diver Jacques Cousteau.

Dont forget, David Suzuki, Neil deGrasse Tyson and 1000s of other Earthists and Humanists....are of the 70s generation.

I do recognize the 60's/70's folks for really bringing to the fore environmentalism. But remember, then too it was mostly the hippies and progressives who were all for that, just like now.

I disagree with you that people were less brainwashed. Before the advent of the internet, most people had almost no access to alternative views, unless they searched hardcore for it or were experts in a relevant field.

You asked what this generation will do.

Today, what we are doing, including people from your generation, is crafting policies as we speak that will address the root causes of the environmental issues, poverty, inequality, etc.

We are on the cusp of negotiating and finalizing literally the most ambitious sustainable development/environmental/poverty/justice/etc agreements in the history of mankind. They are below at that link. Those are the ones that were negotiated over about 14 months.

UN Sustainable Development Goals:

sustainabledevelopment.un.org...

This is something I have both studied extensively and worked on.

Let me see,the Church of Global Warming,Hellfire and Brimstone vs the Evil Denialists.


Urging the world to attack the United States...



Yep ,it`s a Religion alright!