Russians at Mach 16?

I was wathing something on Discovery Channel i think, and it said that during the cold war the Russians had pioneered a form of propulsion where the plane fired electrons at the air infront of it, creating plasma and this charged air was then forced back by magnets along the centre of the plane?

It has a technical name but forgot what its called.

but anyway apparently Swedish radar was pinging these things flying over all of russia at mach 16 +

Can anyone shed any light on this?

maybe ayaks?

there are more but i forgot, ill look it up..

it is very hard to fly in mesosphere - air is too rarified for aircrafts and too solid for sattelites. Besides, air in mesosphere is highly ionised because of space particle beams. But if you can fly in mesosphere, you are nearly invicible Russians created a revolutionary method - they created UNIVERSAL engine When "AYaKS" reaches hypersonic speed, it uses heating energy. it has double shielding. Between two shieldings, in special system, water and ordinary cheap cerosine circulate. Energy of surfacial heating is used to break up water into hydrogen and oxygen. Hydrogen is mixed with avia-cerosine to create fuel of enormous potential energy. This fuel is injected into combustion chamber, remaining oxygen is used to fuel combustion processes. In this form, "AYaKS" can fly on 60 kilometers height, and even above BUT, on these heighs, rarified air is highly ionised because of space particle rays. That's why "AYaKS" has air-taking chamber. It takes ionised air and redistributes it between MGD-generator (MGD means magnetogasodynamic) and MGD-thruster. Hypersonic air stream is radically slowed by magnetic field, created by MGD-generator. Some of this energy is used for EDS (electro-moving force). Resulting energy output - ABOVE 100 MEGAWATT. That is enough, to provide entire city with energy. And we can only guess how military modifications of this plane use all this energy But that is not all! Slowed ionised stream is then goes to combustion chamber, where mixture of avia-cerosine, hydrogen and oxygen is reacting. This results into enormous reactive plasma stream, which accelerates "AYaKS" to ultra-high speed. And that is not all! As I said, "AYaKS" has sophisticated MGD-thruster, which uses some of board energy. If you activate this thruster, stream of ionised matter will enormously boost reactive plasma stream, giving "AYaKS" 25-50 SONIC SPEEDS!!! That is cosmic speed, which allows "AYaKS" to break all bonds of planetary gravitation and go to space! And think what happen if "AYaKS" is equipped with the plasma anti-friction generator! Not passive one like on MiG-MFI, but active one - large device, which uses lasers and high-frequency radiation to create plasmoids! That doubles "AYaKS" speed! In other words, this machine is aerocosmic cruiser with plasma magnochemical engine, which moves faster then best anti-missile rockets and projectiles. This machine despises air friction, inertia and speed limits! , made of very cheap, but extremely strong metal compounds! Civilization won't have defence against it for centuries!

Sounds sort of like a very non-technical description by a not so technically oriented person of something resembling the Magnet Hydrodynamic propulsion system we already have in use by US X Craft out of Area 51.

If this is indeed a Russian version, it sounds like it is a bit on the crude side compared to US X Craft.

And there is also one home-grown American scientist who apparently had some input into the U.S. government's flying saucer project--T. Townsend Brown, and his Project Winterhaven.

Brown was an American physicist, who was heavily involved in electrogravitics research. In the middle 1920s, he discovered it is possible to create an artificial gravity field by charging an electrical capacitor to high voltage.

By 1958, he had managed to work his way to the point where he had succeeded in developing a 15-inch diameter model saucer that could lift over 110 percent of its weight. What his experiments had inaugurated was the new field of electrogravitics, or the technology of controlling gravity through the use of very high voltage electric charges.

By 1952, Brown gave a demonstration to a Air Force major general in which Brown flew a pair of 18-inch disc airfoils suspended from opposite ends of a rotatable arm. The discs were electrified with 50,000 volts and circuited at a speed of 12 miles per hour.

Approximately one year later, he flew a set of three- foot diameter saucers for Air Force officials and representatives from several major aircraft companies.

These discs were energized with 150,000 volts, and sped around the 50-foot diameter course so fast that the subject was immediately classified. A report by ``Interavia'' magazine noted that the discs would attain speeds of several hundred miles per hour when charged with several hundred thousand volts.

The secret to Brown's discs was that they were charged with a high positive voltage, via a wire, running along their leading edge. A high negative voltage ran along their trailing edge, also on a wire. As the wires ionized the air around them, a study by Paul A. LaViolette said, a dense cloud of positive ions would form ahead of the craft and a corresponding cloud of negative ions would form behind the craft.

LaViolette said that Brown's research showed that, like the charged plates of his capacitors, these ion clouds induced a gravitational force directed in the minus to plus direction. In short, a gravitational well formed ahead of the disc which pulled the craft, while a gravitational hill formed behind the craft and pushed it. As the disc moved forward in response to its self-generated gravity field, it would carry with it its positive and negative ion clouds and their associated electrogravity gradient. The discs in effect would ride their advancing gravity wave much like surfers ride an ocean wave, LaViolette said.

The occupants of one of the saucers, if there were occupants, would feel no stress at all no matter how sharp the turn or how great the acceleration, LaViolette said. This was because the ship and is occupants and the load are all responding equally to the wavelike distortion of the local grsharp the turn or h

Brown by 1952 had put together a proposal, code named ``Project Winterhaven,'' LaViolette said, which suggested that the military develop an antigravity combat saucer with Mach 3 capability. As early as 1954, according to a report prepared by the private aviation intelligence firm Aviation Studies International Ltd., the Air Force had begun plans to fund research that would accomplish Project Winterhaven's objectives.

www.geocities.com...

something equivalent to a plasma-sail, magneto-plasma generator, and there is one that was talked a lot about in about 1989-1990 ion-something-another. I'll have to go back and look that up.

"Magnet Hydrodynamic propulsion system"

thats the one, thanks.

Apparently when travelling like this the aircraft has 50% less drag?

Actually, when under this propulsion, I dont believe there is any drag, as the air immediately around the vehicle is ionized and moves along with the aircraft.

I guess there would be some drag from the surrounding atmosphere on the outer shell of ionized air around the vehicle, but I dont believe there is any direct drag from the ionized air against the skin of the vehicle as there would be no relative motion between the two.

Folks, I'm not a debunker or a career skeptic. I want to believe in wild, secret hypersonic propulsion systems as much as y'all do... but...

The current absolute speed record for an aircraft powered by an air-breathing propulsion system is held by NASA's X-43, powered by an experimental scramjet engine. It was accelerated by a rocket booster to Mach7+, at which point the scramjet took over and fired for about 10 seconds, further accelerating the craft to Mach 9.8. This record was set in 2004.

That's right. Mach 9.8. Not Mach 16 or Mach 20. That's the all-time world record for sustained air-breathing flight within the atmosphere. A hypothetical magnetohydrodynamic propulsion system would be classified as air-breathing, since it does not carry any auxiliary oxidizer, like a rocket would.

Engineers are proud of their achievements, especially if their designs end up setting world records. No matter how "deep black" and classified a hypothetical aircraft flying out of Area 51 or Russia were, eventually some details of its flight parameters and capabilities would leak. Many details of the X-43 were (and are) highly classified, but the ultimate speed attained and the general theory behind its design are public knowledge.

I refer you to the Sept. 2007 issue of "Air & Space" magazine, which contains an excellent overview of the current state of hypersonic research. This publication of the Smithsonian Institute doesn't pull any punches - if there were a "big secret" out there, they would report anything that was known about it. They have often reported on subjects that are more or less top secret, and include all publicly-available information.

I've been reading about this stuff in various aviation and science periodicals for 30 years now. If there were any merit to the claims of magical Mach 16 aircraft, I would know about it. I haven't seen anything, even a theoretical discussion, of such a propulsion system. I know about the potential applications of magnetohydrodynamics in marine propulsion, and I know that it is not really possible with current technology, although it's an interesting idea. If our best scientists can't make it work in a submarine, why should it be any easier in an aircraft?

Like I said, engineers have great pride in their achievements. If anyone had developed an aircraft which was capable of sustained, air-breathing Mach 16 flight, we would know about it for damn sure. Such a flight would have been duly reported to the FAI as an official world record, even if the technology behind it were highly classified. Period. Think it through. No secret is so big that its developers wouldn't want their aeronautical achievement officially recognized.

BTW, I live in New Mexico, and I spend a lot of time watching the sky. I've seen a space shuttle re-enter and a burning satellite. I've also seen all kinds of weird aircraft flying out of Nellis, Holloman, and Kirtland AFB, which is just a few blocks from my home. I've seen the so-called "donuts on a rope" contrails left by experimental craft powered by pulse-detonation engines. I've even seen an honest-to-gosh UFO...

...But, I've never seen anything doing Mach 16 in the atmosphere, leaving an incandescent ionization trail behind it.

reply to post by Kiffer
Good points Kiffer, another very practical problem with magnetohydrodynamic aircraft would be what happens to the magnets if they get too hot? A basic school science experiment will show that if you take any magnet and heat it sufficiently it will loose it's magnetic properties. It may be possible to develop very high temperature magnets but it would know doubt be difficult, time consuming and as always, very expensive.

LEE.

they would have to use a very advanced anti gravity and g force tech to get a human to fly this.poor usa,russia is so advanced now it hurts

Unisol, not only is this discussing several decades in the past, but nationalist bull---- has no place on these forums.

Please remain on-topic, or leave.

The russians also have a functioning SCRAMJET prgramme with quite a few test flights - pictures from MAKS show an old version

[edit on 11/9/07 by Harlequin]

Originally posted by Kiffer

Engineers are proud of their achievements, especially if their designs end up setting world records. No matter how "deep black" and classified a hypothetical aircraft flying out of Area 51 or Russia were, eventually some details of its flight parameters and capabilities would leak. Many details of the X-43 were (and are) highly classified, but the ultimate speed attained and the general theory behind its design are public knowledge.

I find it hard to believe that EVERYTHING is public knowledge, there are classified secrets, and a lot of them probably don't make it in "Air & Space" magazine. Yes, engineers are yery proud of their achievements, but would you brag about yours if the Kremlin would kill your family?
I firmly believe in UFO's and I'm sure a lot of them can top Mach 16 also.

well..it wouldnt be a surprise both the russians and americans have unique technological capabilities...got to love both these countries lol