Other Countries Change Their Gun Laws After Mass Shootings. Why Not America?

a reply to: SubTruth

I agree. This may sound as deluded as pro gun people but I'm grateful there are cameras on every street corner (UK). The idea that if I get attacked/robbed they can track his every movement
And trace him back. Nothing worse than losing a loved one and finding out we couldn't locate the perpetrator because of underfunding/ societies unwillingness to live in a big brother world. God I sound American with that reasoning.

originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: SubTruth

So to resolve the issue create more guns. Great. Thankyou for your solution. You assume criminals don't exist in other countries for some reason, yet they cope fine. People walk down the street without fear. They know there is a possibility a criminal could attack them and draw a gun on them, but it's highly improbable in a country that doesn't endorse gun culture.its sad america can't even contemplate the world without guns.

This argument I see it devolving into playing Texas holdem with my cat and dog........You are born free and what you do with that right is up to you.



I will try a different angle why is Europe such a police state.......I thought giving up gun rights makes you safer and causes less fear. By your logic Europe and it people should be living in a safe paradise of roses and unicorns.

originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: butcherguy

Don't think you understood the line you quoted. Please re read. Talking about how it blamed on psychopaths not gun culture.

I didn't mention guns in my post.
Read what you wrote.

From the outside looking in on america there is a clear idea that crazy people shoot people, psychopaths do this.  

My response was that people on the outside looking in are risking their lives to come inside our borders.
Your reply to that assumes that I am talking about guns.
I am talking about what I quoted. No mention of guns.

originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: SubTruth

I agree. This may sound as deluded as pro gun people but I'm grateful there are cameras on every street corner (UK). The idea that if I get attacked/robbed they can track his every movement
And trace him back. Nothing worse than losing a loved one and finding out we couldn't locate the perpetrator because of underfunding/ societies unwillingness to live in a big brother world. God I sound American with that reasoning.

You are grateful for your loss of privacy and liberty..........Talk about pathetic. Trying to convince a slave that is happy being a slave freedom is a better idea is a hard task. Either you are a complete tool for the system or the progressive brainwashing really did it's work.



You are grateful for your loss of privacy and liberty........Ah.....Really. Also you mention getting attacked or robbed.....See the ironic logic fail. You are happy to lose privacy because the streets you live on are so dangerous and you are afraid. So your answer to that is to take away your right to defend yourself and trust others to do that for you.

originally posted by: Ultralight
a reply to: Willtell

You may want to live in a governmental controlled internment camp when the time comes...I sure as sheet won't.

I got news for you.........you will because you do. You don't see the control that the people higher up on the food chain have on you, because they let you have the opportunity to have things. Like guns. You think that because you have the choice to do what you want within the reason, law and the morals of this society.....that you're free. You're not free.

This country doesn't function out of some moral higher ground. This country functions on a business level that people like you cannot comprehend because you're stuck in this perception that America is the greatest because we have freedoms for the sake of it.

I'll give you an example: They tell you that that if you work hard and long enough, that you can better your life and the lives of your children, and move up in social class. That may have been true in the 50's, but that's a fairy tale at this point. I don't care how hard or long you work, whatever social class you were born in, you will most likely die in. You think college is the answer maybe? You'll be neck deep in a debt that you will never pay off because that degree you thought was worth something 4 years ago when you started college, well, that skill set is no longer in demand. Things in the business and corporate world change and there is no algorithm or method that will help you see that change in advance.

At this point, people work hard to maintain whatever lifestyle they have. They can do that in Northern California, only to have the rug of property values pulled out from under their feet when the city says "oops, we ran out of water". If it's not that, it's something else. As long as you play in their system, you will never win. You're not supposed to.

You are stuck in a way of life that you will not make better unless you win the lottery, and you know it. And you're stuck there because you want to sugar coat the situation by saying that our constitution guarantees freedoms of this, that and the other thing.

Freedom to do whatever you want within the confines of a way of life you cannot change because of money.......that's not freedom. That's indentured servitude with perks.

a reply to: Willtell

It is criminal, to teach a man not to defend himself.

a reply to: Ksihkehe
Fair point. I now have relieved myself of of the position of spokesperson of the universe. Why stoop to those levels? Your better than that. It's a debate and I am giving you my perspective, looking in from the outside.

And yes we don't understand what you lot are going through because we abolished guns long time ago, and can't relate to the divide created with police brutality/mass shootings. I would say the gun problem created the culture problem. Different derivatives..

Consider if you will that there are believed to be roughly 300 million privately owned firearms. There may indeed more or less, but 300 million is a good number for this thought experiment. Consider that this recent event was one person killing nine people because he didn't like their skin color. They were not trying to invade his home to steal his property. A thought that a gun owner might have as the people come to take his guns.

Now with that thought in mind, how many people do you think would be shot and killed trying to collect those 300 million guns? I think there just might be more than nine. What happened was a tragic criminal act. I don't condone it and think that he should be executed so that he never has the opportunity for a repeat performance. But the violence and death on a massive scale while disarming a population whose only crime was continuing to possess what was legal property, condoning any action to cause that to come about is beyond criminal. It is the thoughts of a genocidal madman.

But as for me, the last round I fired was a couple months ago. A single shot so that a pair of coyotes that was too close to the house one morning could hear it and know that was not a place for them to be hanging out. I did not fire towards them at all. Just a warning shot and I have not seen them since.

But if you must get to the root as to why the Second Amendment is in place was so the People held a Sword of Damocles over the government. The People are legally allowed to form and maintain militias, the Government is not permitted to have a standing Army in times of peace.

But all of the above is just my opinion, good luck on your endeavors of disarming the American People. Let me know how that goes for you.

Because we won't be COWED by apparently CONTRIVED circumstances and then surrender a valuable and possiblly FINAL edge.
WE aren't from a CASTE society we stand individually on our own united to the Republic. SOME anyway..others appear to wander off.
I for one WILL NOT be measured NOR GOVERNED as a result of abberrant ,nuts ,who murder ,only to be overrun by any MANOR of people who are anxious to see said Republic FALL. Not to mention lose THE abilty to STOP such nuts.
As a trained defender, I will see that through as my oath was taken to the PRIME CREATOR I pecieve as extant.

originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: Ksihkehe
Fair point. I now have relieved myself of of the position of spokesperson of the universe. Why stoop to those levels? Your better than that. It's a debate and I am giving you my perspective, looking in from the outside.

And yes we don't understand what you lot are going through because we abolished guns long time ago, and can't relate to the divide created with police brutality/mass shootings. I would say the gun problem created the culture problem. Different derivatives..

The police state is a symptom of progressive social rule. When you put the rights of the masses before individual rights it leads to Oligarchies being formed. If we actually followed the constitution the police state would vanish. Is the UK becoming a police state..........I thought giving up the guns solved this issue.

a reply to: SubTruth

You are fortunate enough not to have someone you know attacked and not find the culprit. In England we find the culprit with a high probability. If me being happy knowing that criminals will eventually get caught and that deterants are located all over the city of London to detract criminals then I am the biggest tool in the history of man, completely oblivious to my personal data being stored, my every comment on social media tracked and categorised and my preferences auctioned to the highest marketing company bidder. Slave to freedom. Lmao. Same old American propoganda speech yet you are oblivious to it and question my brainwashed sanity.

I know americas hate it when guns are blamed by those outside of America. It's an opinion. An opinion you have every right to deny and stoop to pathetic levels in response. I could conform and say it's the machine oppressing us but take some god dam responsibility. The government doesn't pull the trigger, individuals do.

a reply to: Willtell

Because we aren't other countries?

Seriously, do you remember when "other people" were all doing that thing, and you told your mother you should do that thing too, and she asked you if all those other people were jumping off a cliff, would you run out and do that too?

Just because everyone else does a thing doesn't mean it's the right thing or a good thing to do. It also doesn't mean it will fix the problem. Charlie Hebdo called, and they'd like to remind you that mass shootings still happen even when the general public doesn't have easy access to firearms.

a reply to: rossacus

Our law enforcement responds AFTER the fact,self defense is a given.

I think gun control in this country is the same as the war on terror. They create an unseen enemy that is everywhere, so they use force (gun control laws/anti-terrorism laws) and take away people's rights. When that doesn't work they send in the strongarms (police/military), and let them have their way, to the detriment of the people. Our predecessors saw this long ago and had the foresight to include it in our Constitution. Let's not forget the numerous false flag events perpetrated upon societies just to start wars. They are now trying to divide us from within. We are stronger than they are. We will not subside. Owning a firearm keeps you on the same playing field as the bad guys.

originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: SubTruth

You are fortunate enough not to have someone you know attacked and not find the culprit. In England we find the culprit with a high probability. If me being happy knowing that criminals will eventually get caught and that deterants are located all over the city of London to detract criminals then I am the biggest tool in the history of man, completely oblivious to my personal data being stored, my every comment on social media tracked and categorised and my preferences auctioned to the highest marketing company bidder. Slave to freedom. Lmao. Same old American propoganda speech yet you are oblivious to it and question my brainwashed sanity.

I know americas hate it when guns are blamed by those outside of America. It's an opinion. An opinion you have every right to deny and stoop to pathetic levels in response. I could conform and say it's the machine oppressing us but take some god dam responsibility. The government doesn't pull the trigger, individuals do.

I am sorry but you logic is in fact flawed giving up freedom does not give you more freedom. It also does not make you more secure.......Look at your story and see the irony in it please. I can see you are a thinker and truth be told kinda like your argument stye.



Please look at the early progressive movement and it's leaders and what they really want. Men like Hitler took inspiration from these guys and ideals. The path you think is the right one in fact leads to very bad things for the common man.

a reply to: rossacus

I am always prepared. Always.

Oooooohkaaaaay:

As others have rightly posted, why must we have the same discussion over and over again? Is it that some people are actually that dense that they cannot recognize facts? Is it that they are so dense that they think repeating fables makes them true?

Australia was mentioned; Great!

Murder and homicide rates before and after gun bans

Every place that has been banned guns has seen murder rates go up. You cannot point to one place where murder rates have fallen, whether it’s Chicago or D.C. or even island nations such as England, Jamaica, or Ireland.

England anyone??

For an example of homicide rates before and after a ban, take the case of the handgun ban in England and Wales in January 1997 (source here see Table 1.01 and the column marked “Offences currently recorded as homicide per million population”). After the ban, clearly homicide rates bounce around over time, but there is only one year (2010) where the homicide rate is lower than it was in 1996. The immediate effect was about a 50 percent increase in homicide rates.

C'mon folks, the bottom line is that if the US government cared about it's citizens as much as it tries to portray, they would not have the ¼ of the entire world's incarcerated population in it's own (for profit) prisons.

Oh and the Obama thing, He only comes out to capitalize on a shooting that suits his master's agenda; and DURING his speech, back at congress, the Fast Track for the TPP was passed. So much for paying attention to what matters, American Public at large….

So, it hasn't worked internationally and it will not work here; give it up!

a reply to: DeepImpactX

Please research my other posts before telling me what I don't know. I not only know, I know , who, what, when, why, and how.

Don't believe me. It phases me not. Nor does it change a thing.

a reply to: SubTruth
From what I see day to day, guns haven't resolved the issue of crime, but it's helped define our culture, definetly. crime will always exist. Yes we all know you take the guNs knife crime goes up. It's obvious. But we rarely have issues of police brutality or gun crime. We don't lose 2 civilians a day on average from LEO'S. (Of course much bigger country).people do not FEAR the police. It's why I can't relate to the predicament in america and ultimately will never understand.

You read it in every post. I don't have a gun but I will not give up my right for a gun. This is a rationale I can't comprehend. You lot can call me any name under the sun but I wasn't raised thinking guns are the norm, they are taught to be bad/non Nessecity .
Only a few americans on ATS acknowledge that guns helped formulate this predicament.

originally posted by: Willtell
Of course if they didn’t change gun laws when kids are killed they certainly won’t change them when black people are murdered, not in America. Particularly when we have the GOP in control of the senate and congress.

But this article seems to prove the fact that America’s love of guns is detrimental to the safety of Americans.


" The Huffington Post | By Eline Gordts
www.huffingtonpost.com...

President Barack Obama responded to the shooting in a solemn address on Thursday. "I've had to make statements like this too many times. Communities have had to endure tragedies like this too many times," Obama said. "Once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun. We as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries."

The horrifying killings in Charleston, South Carolina, came just two years after U.S. lawmakers failed to pass a proposal for expanded background checks for gun buyers that was drafted in the wake of the horrifying killings at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. The tragic events this week once again prompted activists and pundits to demand tougher restrictions on firearms.

To put those demands into perspective, The WorldPost spoke with Dr. David Hemenway about gun laws and gun violence in other wealthy countries. Hemenway is a professor of health policy at Harvard University and the director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center. He headed the pilot program for the National Violent Death Reporting System and is the author of Private Guns, Public Health.

How do American gun laws compare to those of other Western countries?

Other high-income countries have much stronger gun laws than we have. They vary from incredibly draconian gun restrictions in countries such as England and Japan, where almost nobody has guns, to places like Canada, where a fair amount of people own guns.

 

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The answer to the OP is that such bans did not change much. Murder rate is the same or higher on average than before.