Why all the focus on gay marriage?

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: TinfoilTP



If the government legalized gay marriage would you fight it? Government authorities are the servants of God, so if they pass a law it is God's will they are serving.



Ireland just legalized gay marriage, their governing authorities are servants of God doing his will, why are you against it if God wills it?

Government authorites are not God's authorites. Pretty sure the hierarchy in the US is God -> People -> Government. Government officials serve us, not God. They're supposed to tbe the lowest of the low, not ruling us by divine right. I hear it's still bassackwards in those old monarchies though.

If the government leglaized gay marriage and tried to force me to participate in one against my will, I would refuse. God is more important than the government,

a reply to: ketsuko

Who is forcing anyone to participate in a gay marriage?. many places have legalized it but none have forced people to participate in one.
So why even put that when no one is doing anything of the sort?.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Why the focus? Because some people assume Marriage was an Abrahamic invention. I mean its not like pagans (for example) did it ....right? *cricket chirps*

Its ignorance. Christianity does NOT have the patent on marriage. Now should a church (for example) be able to refuse to marry someone? Yes, its the churches right, but hey that is what marriage celebrants are for right? My wife and I (both nominally pagan, though me being a bit more active) had a celebrant, as there were no pagan clergy in town with the rights to do it....well beyond me (and you can't officiate your own wedding here).

So back to my point, it is ingorance, and stupidity. Sorry if that offends any one. I will be out in the field with my sword waiting for you

a reply to: ketsuko

You've read the bible right?

Romans 13
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

If the government passes a law, it is God's will at work because they are his servants.

This also brings up another question: if there is no authority except those God has established then why do we have so much conflict between governing authorities across the world? That's for another thread though.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: ketsuko

Who is forcing anyone to participate in a gay marriage?. many places have legalized it but none have forced people to participate in one.
So why even put that when no one is doing anything of the sort?.

I see where this is coming from.

There is a movement to do away with tax exempt status for a church. If the make a Church a business, then guess what? You cannot "discriminate". That would mean membership and ceremonies. Others believe even without the tax exempt thing, using the "discrimination" card will be used legally to force churches to participate in activities that they find sinful. This would not only be "gay wedding ceremonies" but "any wedding ceremony". A nice satanic themed wedding could be forced upon a church under this kind of legal hammer. Churches would close down by the 1,000's and driven underground. Then, not satisfied, they will come after those who gather who refuse to comply as though they were outlaws.

Now, I do not know how that will play out since I doubt the left will try to force Muslim Mosques to do it but who knows.

a reply to: ketsuko

I'm adding to his post in response to the op. I more or less agree with him in his spiritual views. The scripture is clear, and that's what I follow.

Okay. That's the clarification I was asking for.

but I do expect to have the latitude to live according to my beliefs. I'm not stopping you from yours, you leave me mine.

Okay. Sounds good so far.

whether or not I believe two men or two women constitute a marriage stops you from your life not at all even if you dislike the reality that I don't believe in what you do.

What I do? What is it I do?

Your other post said: "It would be just as simple to go your own way, but you can't do it. You have to force everyone else to be just like you."

I don't remember anyone suggesting that everyone should be gay, or bi, or hetero (maybe that one) or anything else. Is it tolerance you don't believe in?

originally posted by: infolurker
There is a movement to do away with tax exempt status for a church. If the make a Church a business, then guess what? You cannot "discriminate". That would mean membership and ceremonies. Others believe even without the tax exempt thing, using the "discrimination" card will be used legally to force churches to participate in activities that they find sinful. This would not only be "gay wedding ceremonies" but "any wedding ceremony". A nice satanic themed wedding could be forced upon a church under this kind of legal hammer. Churches would close down by the 1,000's and driven underground. Then, not satisfied, they will come after those who gather who refuse to comply as though they were outlaws.

Absolutely not true! Tax exempt status has nothing to do with freedom of religion of the first amendment. They are not connected. Taking away tax-exempt status wouldn't make churches a business. They're still a church. Even if churches didn't have tax-exempt status, they still couldn't be legally forced to participate because it would violate the first amendment.

a reply to: infolurker

There is a movement to do away with tax exempt status for a church. If the make a Church a business, then guess what? You cannot "discriminate". That would mean membership and ceremonies. Others believe even without the tax exempt thing, using the "discrimination" card will be used legally to force churches to participate in activities that they find sinful.

I'd like to see the evidence for this.

If it's true, shouldn't you be arguing for keeping church/state separate, rather then ban samesex marriage because church?

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: infolurker

There is a movement to do away with tax exempt status for a church. If the make a Church a business, then guess what? You cannot "discriminate". That would mean membership and ceremonies. Others believe even without the tax exempt thing, using the "discrimination" card will be used legally to force churches to participate in activities that they find sinful.

I'd like to see the evidence for this.

If it's true, shouldn't you be arguing for keeping church/state separate, rather then ban samesex marriage because church?

Google. There is plenty of info:

petitions.moveon.org...
www.charismanews.com...
www.adn.com...
ffrf.org...
www.secular.org...

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: TinfoilTP

If the government legalized gay marriage would you fight it? Government authorities are the servants of God, so if they pass a law it is God's will they are serving.

Ireland just legalized gay marriage, their governing authorities are servants of God doing his will, why are you against it if God wills it?

Now if I remember the bible story correctly....who offered all the Kingdoms of the world to Jesus in the desert?
These Kingdoms serve who again?

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: TinfoilTP

If the government legalized gay marriage would you fight it? Government authorities are the servants of God, so if they pass a law it is God's will they are serving.

Ireland just legalized gay marriage, their governing authorities are servants of God doing his will, why are you against it if God wills it?

Now if I remember the bible story correctly....who offered all the Kingdoms of the world to Jesus in the desert?
These Kingdoms serve who again?

Which is it? The bible says the only kingdoms and authority that can be put in place were put in place by the Christian gods. If that's not true, that means that no nation is ruled by their gods. If that's true, why do Christians keep insisting that our nation be ruled by the Christian Shariah-esque laws?

It's a paradox, truly, but you can't have it both ways. Either it's your kingdom and it can do no wrong or it's not your kingdom and your laws do not apply.

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: TinfoilTP

If the government legalized gay marriage would you fight it? Government authorities are the servants of God, so if they pass a law it is God's will they are serving.

Ireland just legalized gay marriage, their governing authorities are servants of God doing his will, why are you against it if God wills it?

Now if I remember the bible story correctly....who offered all the Kingdoms of the world to Jesus in the desert?
These Kingdoms serve who again?

Which is it? The bible says the only kingdoms and authority that can be put in place were put in place by the Christian gods. If that's not true, that means that no nation is ruled by their gods. If that's true, why do Christians keep insisting that our nation be ruled by the Christian Shariah-esque laws?

It's a paradox, truly, but you can't have it both ways. Either it's your kingdom and it can do no wrong or it's not your kingdom and your laws do not apply.

If you are going to introduce bible tales at least follow the story accurately.
Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, give to God what is God's. Clear separation, not on the same page. No paradox.

so same-sex Marriage only affects people in America, in the other countries where it's Legal it wont bring upon the end Times?

i mean, if other countries can do it, and everyone still has their "Freedoms" why not America? i thought this was ahead of other countries?

originally posted by: infolurker
Google. There is plenty of info:

petitions.moveon.org...
www.charismanews.com...
www.adn.com...
ffrf.org...
www.secular.org...

1) Move to remove tax exempt as retaliation for church manipulating politics
2) Guess what, IRS already monitors tax exempts for violations
3) A town wants churches to pay sales tax
4) Educational piece about existing Supreme Court decisions
5)

These exemptions have an unjustifiably high cost. Simply enforcing compliance by churches with the same rules that apply to all other nonprofits, could generate billions of dollars in additional tax revenue. Removing these exemptions does not threaten religious liberty rights as the financial reporting required does not involve matters of religious belief or practice. However, if a house of worhship objects to the inquiry, they are free to forego the exemption and limit IRS access to their records. Courts have repeatedly held that 501(c)(3) status is a privilege, not a right to which houses of worship are entitled.

Background
In 1943, Congress established the requirement that certain exempt organizations file annual information returns. The IRS Form 990 filing requirement was created but exempted religious, educational, and charitable organizations.

Congress revisited the issue with the Tax Reform Act of 1969. This law expanded the types of organizations that would be required to file Form 990s. The original House bill would have dropped all exemptions unless Treasury determined it would be unnecessary to have a specific organization disclose such information. The Senate version, however, excepted churches, their integrated auxiliary organizations, and conventions or associations of churches. The Senate version was kept in the final bill and also included “any religious order with respect to its exclusively religious activities.”

What a hardship it would be to file a IRS Form 990 to show a church is not laundering political funds!

Help me out here. Where is the Bible verse that says Christians can't be Christians unless they own tax exempt property?

Newsflash: 2 people of the same gender canNOT be "married". Does the actual definition of words matter anymore?

Evidently not. Male is now female, if they FEEL that way lmao. White is now black if they FEEL that way.

Facts vs. Feelings. I'll stick with reality. Anyone who is sexually attracted to the same gender is suffering from a mental disorder. That's a fact. And it's irrelevant how you FEEL about it.






a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

a reply to: Ignatian

How is it a fact? i mean, if you can give me proof that i have a Mental Disorder i would be more inclined to believe your "Feelings"

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: Ignatian

How is it a fact? i mean, if you can give me proof that i have a Mental Disorder i would be more inclined to believe your "Feelings"

He feels his opinion that feelings aren't facts is a fact. Duh.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

The fact remains the Abrahamic faiths did not INVENT marriage, so they don't get to dictate what is or is not marriage. ITs that simple. There is no patent on the ritual. I mean they could TRY I guess? Church can refuse to perform the marriage, but they can't actually dictate how a nation decides to define what it means. The US is lagging behind the rest of the world on this issue. Now if only "state" and "church" could keep out of each others business

a reply to: boymonkey74

Yah see there is a strawman argument by the religious reich uh right over "gay marriage" being forced on "god fearing" people (I don't fear my gods, I respect them). Its simple to fix, stop watching Fox, stop listenting to Rush, and check your facts, and then you understand, no one is forced to do a damned thing. Of course I know this will get arguments that I am a shill for the "gay agenda", or "blind". My reply is the same, I am in the field, with my sword, waiting (and if you get the reference you will understand what it means)

a reply to: Noinden

Yaaaas, Come through!!

Some people who believe we are forcing our "Gay Agenda" on them, are the ones trying to dictate laws and force their religion on others