Money won't conquer poverty and inequality

Now, I'm not 100% sure where this thread should live so feel free to move it to the necessary one. This has been on my mind most of my life. People around the world complain and moan about how they have no money and how the rich should give all their money away. My opinion, no they shouldn't. Why? Because they've worked tirelessly to get where they are and have sacrificed a hell of a lot to get it. I know this as I'm beginning this process. But I do believe something should be done about the poverty and inequality but in a way that ISN'T giving money to people.

We need to realize that money being handed out WILL NOT solve the issue. Spreading it out amongst every person WILL NOT make things right as we will eventually fall back to the way things were. The key is to make money lose it's value. By this I mean, give money the ability to ONLY pay for perks and extras.

Everything we need in order to live and survive needs money which is ridiculous if you ask me. We are putting money before the lives of our own people and that's just wrong. The way I see it is, everything that you need to live a life and survive should be free. It should be a right that we all have. I'll list a few below.

• Housing
• Food
• Water
• Heating
• Healthcare

I'm pretty sure we can all agree that those are the main things people struggle to keep hold of yes? There are probably more but I'm never one to think on the spot haha.

These should be things we are given at a certain age (18-21). There is no argument for overpopulated housing areas. Have you seen how little of the world we actually populate? There is plenty of space to live. But what about things you don't need? Those I categorize under the perks section. Things you don't need in order to survive but are things you want to help keep the entertainment and enjoyment value up. These are the things you should have to pay for.

• Bigger Houses
• Better Foods
• Nicer Cars
• Electricity
• Faster Broadband
• Fancier Phones
• Clothing
• Computers and Gaming Systems
• Accessories (Jewelry, Watches, Earrings)
• Traveling

Those are just a few things to help give an example of unnecessary objects that make life a little more enjoyable. This way people would still have things to work for. Obviously ew wouldn't want to hinder production of anything which is why those things given to you would be limited. Houses would only have a certain number of rooms related to specific needs, and food would be ordinary that can get you buy. Anything else that is for enjoyment relies on payment. I think this is a fair system that allows everyone to live under a roof alongside commute to the society they're living in. Yes inequality will still be a thing but if you think about it, not really. So what, Bill Gates will have a better car than you, get over it. He's earned the money for it and so can you. People argue about inequality because of lack of housing, food and water, not the lack of a Ferrari 458 in their drive way. Obviously it's a rough idea that would require a reset button which unfortunately our race is incapable of doing, but it's one I think would reduce the stress and hardship many of us go through just trying to survive in this hostile world.

I would love to hear others opinions on it. Again, my mind fails me when thinking on the spot so I've probably missed a few things out but I'd like to leave all negative comments out and have a nice discussion on ways we can make our planet a better, more hospitably place to live.

You think similarly to the way I think. The things that are absolutely necessary for the survival of everyone should not be held up like a carrot on a stick. What if one does not have the teeth to eat the carrot?.

This is unfortunately the way things have always been and nothing will change meaningfully until more people realize what a charade this entire system of trade actually is.

Just because the name of something changes does not mean it is any different than it was before.

Personnel to Human Resources?, at least "Personnel" had the word person in it still. And I don't like being referred to as a resource considering how resources are almost always exploited beyond reasonable boundaries to the point of exhaustion or destruction.

a reply to: jonwhite866

The rich we usually talk about as harming everyone else are the 1℅.
How many of those made their money legitimately?
I'll bet very very few.

The problem is humans, not money.
You could provide a brilliant standard of living for free and people would still want more.
Its called greed.

a reply to: jonwhite866

We have spent 40 trillion dollars in the effort to eradicate poverty. It has had poor results at best where the money has actually found its way to the intended recipients.

You can’t legislate biology any more than you can physics.

"It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think that we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication and a government bureaucracy to administer it."

-Thomas Sowell

I could live with such a system and I agree wholeheartedly. No one should need to struggle their whole life for basic necessities. Perks and other stuff, yeah work your ass off for as much fun stuff as you want. Work should improve quality of life nothing else. It should not be a prerequisite for simple existence, at least not to the degree that's being demanded.

a reply to: EA006

Absolutely. Those who inherit the money or earn it unfairly are an exception. But many actually do earn it legitimately. I didn't realize how many until I started going into business myself. People would still want more, but the point is no one will suffer because of it as everyone will have a home, food and water. The only thing they'll lack are extra luxuries which they'll be able to obtain over time and the money they earn would be money that goes towards luxuries. This would obviously mean either a price change in luxuries of a devaluing of money so that everyone doesn't end up with 1,000s of things. So an iPhone would then go up to £1,000 or more and so on.

originally posted by: Puppylove
Work should improve quality of life nothing else.

The perfect saying for what I meant!

You are on the right track, but I don't agree with some parts of the second list:

First of all define "better food"...what do you mean? There is no better food than the one directly from nature. In contrary, most industrial produced food is *worse*.

Electricity should be available to all. I want to cook my own food, if possible. And I need a light in the night to see. Or I need a basic cellphone. And this needs to be rechargeable. Note, that I still don't need a fancy phone, but a basic one.

Also everyone should be able to communicate with one another. Like with internet. That means, that everyone should be able to possess a basic computer. Not a fancy computer, but a basic one.

a reply to: anotherdaytoday

As I said I was pulling stuff out of my head when I could haha. By better foods I meant spices, sauces, things that add enjoyment to a meal. I guess I meant the extra ingredients. But basic foods like meats and veg should be free but any mixes and so on are added perks.

I put electricity in the perks list as our system doesn't obtain all of it through environmentally friendly ways. If it was all done reliably and free then yes, but as it's not and seen as this system wouldn't change the way we gather resources I kept it there. I guess we can say that free reliable energy can be free like solar energy and so on, but if you want constant energy that comes from power stations then you pay for it.

Onto your last ones. A basic mobile would be given yes which is why I mentioned a "fancier" phone in the perks. And unsure on a computer. It would only be necessary if your job requires it. I know many people who have neither a computer or TV and they live fine. It really depends on what you do. If your job requires it then you'll be given a work one until you leave said job. It is a complicated thing which is why I simplified it but hopefully you get the idea. If it's necessary to your life, you'll have it until it becomes unnecessary or unless you purchase it.

I disagree with the fact that you should be given housing, food and water for free, unless you are unable to work.

The problem is someone is working to bring you those things, be it the home builder, the farmer or the water treatment worker, the plumber or even the guy that made the pipes for the water.

Civilization requires all of these things for comfort and convenience.

As an ex home builder, I can tell you, it is relentless back-breaking work to build a turn-key house or spec home.

You could always leave civilization, although it is getting harder with expanding cities and zoning codes.
But with that, what you leave behind is convenience, you will then need to build your own shelter, process your own materials for it, hunt for food and treat water as well as deal with waste. Not worth it to me.

I can also identify a major problem with inflation and value of the dollar now. It shouldn't cost $600 to eat healthy for a month. Everything is getting overpriced while jobs dry up.

IMO, you are better off studying people who are successful and learn to work within the system in place to prosper.
It isn't that hard. It doesn't even take a formal education, just good discipline. Learn how to provide something people want, learn how to market it, and learn how to navigate the tax system in the most profitable way. Also contacts with successful people goes a long way, they all love getting involved in the next new business and usually are looking for new income sources anywhere they can.

Successful people know this and you can take all their money, and they will be rich again in no time with their work ethics, they work smarter, not harder.

Not sure why so many people on here are against inherited money either. It is a petty thought process. IF you made mill-bills, you can bet you will share it with your offspring, to help their lives.

Successful people don't whine about how others become successful, they say a sincere congratulations and study how it may tie into their business plan or future business plan.

There are a few I won't mention that use insider trading etc, which need to be stopped, but they are not remotely the majority of successful people.

Good thread topic

a reply to: jonwhite866

So you think clothes are not a necessity?

In a nation where 1 in 3 people are clinically obese clothes should definately be on the "need" list, at least for my eyes sake.

• Bigger Houses
• Better Foods
• Nicer Cars
• Electricity
• Faster Broadband
• Fancier Phones
• Clothing
• Computers and Gaming Systems
• Accessories (Jewelry, Watches, Earrings)
• Traveling

Boy, you still don't get it. Pyramid systems, with our without money......

Electricity in todays world, with the abundant and clean stuff, is EVERYONE'S right, in fact, anything that is invented that is a good thing, that is an improvement automatically is EVERYONE'S.

There is no need for money, but there also is ZERO need for elitist unequal crap.

No royalty, no banking heads, no elite of any kind, no one with more. That is a need. To get rid of the criminals, because that group is most evil criminal psychopathic, murdering fiends there is, and so need to ensure there is no upper classes.

Houses, size: should have to do with the size of your family, or extended family, with an extra room.

Again, there is no need to rape forests whatsoever, none, zero, nada. There are many alternative builds for houses from cob, to Hempstone, to Hemp and Bamboo wooden planks, that are very fast growing crops, and don't require delta land, which needs to feed the world, or orchard lands, ditto feed the world, but can take less ideal lands and even underground greenhouses.

Same with meat, they don't need to kill a brain with a soul involved, they can clone parts of animals and humans. They grew a penis in a lab, now they're growing a breast. They've had advanced cloning since WW2 era.
Underground factories, clean organic non GMO meat.


Fishing in the Phoenix Earthship

Earthships, rammed earth homes, and any wood can be alternative, such as hemp or bamboo. Now this doesn't use HHO and Cavitation advanced clean technology, it uses solar and wind. So I 'm showing it BUT there is no excuse to not bring out the real technologies. This kind of off solar is OK for an elderly couple and a laptop, but not a bunch of kids and PC's.

When the real technology exists for abundance not scarsity, YOU DON'T DO SCARSITY.

Recycles water.

What needs to be done is homes in abundance in all areas, with people able to move, and they select what they want, where they want to live, and could stay forever in one or move to another place, with Bots and Technology doing upgrades regularly on the homes.

And BEAMSHIPS in our back yard, which they have the technology for, and they don't run on gasoline! No need for roads everywhere, and no fancy cars.

No slavery, no people with more money, volunteer, no forced or slave labors, just lots of different exciting projects to volunteer for, and educations to aquire, so people are drawn into (from childhood on), developing and giving talents to the world on a part time basis. Anything else would be slavery and crimes against humanity.

Health/Dental/Counseling, Housecleaners and Assistance for those in need, full services.

A wonderful advanced world, without slavery, Equality and Freedom, counsils of citizens ,and an end to the elite whatsoever. They are put out to pasture forever.

And anything else is crimes against humanity, any of fake and false scarsity is crimes against humanity, any form of slavery or expectation that people have to work on your project, to live in their homes, is crimes against humanity, so you had better be rearing children up in schools to contribute in healthy ways, to different projects from food production, to science, to medical, and have them move around a bit gaining more than one skill.

Also, artistic and inventive hobbies and pursuits should be like guilds in every area, readily available and if you're interested, then you simply pick up the tools you need and either create the music or art studio, build or have delivered the guitars or art supplies, etc.

Abundance, everything that is on par with the real technology, available to all people, in relatively safe enviro friendly ways. Today not everything is organic, some of the best colors for dying and art are not, but they can be quickly broken down, just adding that because my hobby of choice is spinning and creating dyed fibers and art/color is the thing that fascinates me.

Anything other than complete equality, using the best of your technology for all people, having beauty and abundance and good solutions without slavery, I denounce and renounce and will never support but am just witnessing and writing up the notices they're going to get as they're hauled away when earth tests are over for being renegades and abusing souls.

Anything else is abuse of people.

You treat everyone like a family, a close loving family. No matter if they're healthy or handicapped or elderly, or have young children and need to stay home, whether they're super intelligent, or challenged in IQ, makes absolutely no difference, some very big wings exist in trying situations in the tests. Everyone is family and if you're not programmed to dark side, you never create a world that would not be completely equal and eutopic.

When a kid asks, why is it done this way? you know the adults were stupid!

a reply to: Mandroid7

I posted a simplistic view instead of making a complex just so people would get the gist of how it would work. Reply to your point about free housing and so on. Payment systems would also have to change. If you think about it, the money here on Earth is not a universal object that is limited to a certain degree. If our world was unified money would not be needed for countries like they are today. Governments have a bank where as a world would not need one. The world would supply money in order to pay for labour costs. We think of money as this limited resource that cannot be duplicated. The truth is, it can because it's not universal, it's not natural, it's an invention, an invention that can multiply in order to pay those who build the houses. The rules of money would change like many other things in order for it to work.

a reply to: Unity_99

Limited time today so sorry for not responding to every point you've made. But for your house size one. When I say a bigger house, it depends on your living conditions obviously. If you have a big family, you'll need more rooms but I mean an individual or a family of 4 buying a luxury mansion in the hills of Hollywood. Luxuries. To summarize my entire post, luxuries must be paid for as they are limited and things can get out of hand. Things that are truly needed would be given to you. I replied to someone about the payment of money as well. That would change, the rules of it and so on. Money would need to stop acting as a limited resource that cannot be duplicated. Instead it should be made digitally so that people can still get paid without others having to lose any for the needed things. It is a very complicated idea which would need a full analysis of but if done right it would be a better world and we wouldn't see a single homeless man ever again, unless of course they wanted to live on the streets haha.

a reply to: jonwhite866

Eliminate the monetary system and just share everything with love!

a reply to: jonwhite866

I can agree to some extent with what your saying; I see the need for some adjustment going forward as more jobs are destroyed by automation and robotics. But I see two problems here.
1) You list free as:
• Housing
• Food
• Water
• Heating
• Healthcare

Don't we already do that?
• Housing-----HUD Section 8
• Food---------WIC
• Water--------HUD Section 8
• Heating------HUD Section 8
• Healthcare--Obamacare---Community Health Clinics
+ Education! K-12

So......and I could be incorrect, but it appears the Gov't is already doing or partially providing to your list of free stuff, and I forgot Obamaphone?

2) Whether I''m correct or incorrect about (1) above, there's another inherent problem with your solution. Children. People have children like they're free. People have this belief that they have a right to have children and as many as they want. And if you underwrite enough free stuff for people who additionally want to have children, then you're making a smallish problem huge.

So...I'd suggest that we 1) continue to provide the necessities as "free" but that 2) we impose some system of population control so the problem doesn't, each year, get more huge.

Now....some will pile on and scream, "We have a basic human right to reproduce!"! I'd suggest we examine that and begin to look at a possible solution as "There's a basic human right to reproduce...responsibly"! And we may need to ask..."Is there a right to have children where someone can't afford to provide for that child and where that someone can't afford to offset the additional "load" that child puts on the system"?

Considering these issues, maybe another way to look at this would be to add "child bearing/reproduction" to your list of things people should be made to "pay for".

• Bigger Houses
• Children
• Better Foods
• Nicer Cars
• Electricity
• Faster Broadband
• Fancier Phones
• Clothing
• Computers and Gaming Systems
• Accessories (Jewelry, Watches, Earrings)
• Traveling

originally posted by: cancerwarrior
a reply to: jonwhite866

So you think clothes are not a necessity?

In a nation where 1 in 3 people are clinically obese clothes should definately be on the "need" list, at least for my eyes sake.

Buy sun glasses......save yourself bro!

a reply to: TonyS

You make great points and the lists I made were so that people could understand the format. I never meant for them to BE the actual ones haha. And I said to someone else, the idea of money would need to change so those who make all the electrical for food, water and so on would still get paid. Money is seen as a limited source when in actual fact it can be duplicated both physically and digitally however doing that in our world would cause complications because of our already over complicated systems in play. Money would be less complicated and used only as a tool to get unnecessary items.

Your child one does rise a good point. Everyone does have a right to reproduce but even I can agree that abusing the right to reproduce in order to get more is slightly wrong. There should be some form of limitation or cost for having a certain number of children. Any system that would get rid of immoral greed. Wanting more money and working hard to get it is fine, but having children in order to get more isn't in my opinion. There's two sides to greed and over reproducing isn't a good one haha.