Shock Video: Teen Boy Shot and Killed by Cop for Flashing Headlights and Flexing Rights

originally posted by: Parthin96
In reference to what someone else posted, you're required to show your license, registration, and proof of insurance on demand, refusal is a misdemeanor.
a reply to: alienjuggalo

Ahh, my bad. In pretty much every other country you only need to provide them within a week to a month after being stopped or cited as if someone steals your car with them in, they can potentially use them as ID. You're allowed to pick which police station you'd like to hand them in and as long as you produce in the given time frame that's the end of it. No fine, no crime, certainly no jail time for not having it.

Completely agree - if he can't take a punch from an unarmed 17 year old of light build (if he was punched, those two photos look like a knock from falling, not the impact of a punch), how's he going to deal with someone much stronger, heavier or better equipped then he is? His defence of 'I shot him because he might have punched me then shot me' shows he wasn't fit to wear the uniform or carry a gun as he's a danger to himself and other people.

a reply to: Answer
Dang it's not like you know it's a cop car coming at you at night with his brights on.

So now we are not suppose to let anyone know their high beams are on and just be blinded?

Yeah that's safer..

Wow. Even if the kid TRIED to attack him... This is a trained officer vs a scronny 17 year old kid. Why carry the collapsible baton on your hip if you aren't going to use it as a less deadly means of self defense.

Guys got a knife? Shoot em
Guys got an axe? Shoot em
Guys got a gun? shoot em.

Guys got two fists... Pummel his ass until he pisses blood, don't shoot him.

With that being said if this was 220lb 17 year old football player vs a small officer i can see deadly force being warranted IF he was actually attacking.

originally posted by: framedragged

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: framedragged
a reply to: BASSPLYR

Not to mention the physical distribution of bullet holes in the kid.

The kid is on top of him, he's fumbling with his gun, and he squeezes off 7 shots.

one is downward through the top of his head, one is downward through his right chest, one is downward from his left abdomen, one is one is level with his right armpit, one is level with his left lung, one in his right wrist and one in his arm.

Yeah, aiming down through someone's body sure follows with him sitting on you with their head to the sky.

sure. Sounds real plausible, I'm sure someone will be along to answer the discrepencies shortly.

Yeah, I'm gonna need a source for that information. I haven't found ANYTHING stating that the shots were "downward" and that would have obviously gone against everything the prosecutor said.

Post a source or stop spreading lies.

mgtvwlns.files.wordpress.com...

There ya go, autopsy report on page 9

a reply to: vonclod

Posted it above.


Quite frankly the autopsy report is damning for the officer's testimony in one way or another. The shots are fairly believable if Guilford was NOT on his hips, but behind them (ie, in a really bad MMA grappling position). But if he was on his hips, as the testimony states (ie, a really good MMA grappling position) then there is no way he got a bead on the top of his scalp.

Thank you for that.

Read the description of the fight and it matches up with the bullet trajectories.

Imagining how the officer was holding the pistol, I would imagine that he was trying to keep it high up, so his arms were still partially blocking his head. As the shots were fired, Guilford started to collapse onto the officer, hence the upper chest shot that travels almost directly downward and the head shot traveling from right upper skull to the bottom left.

I wish I could draw a diagram or act it out because it's hard to visualize unless you know a bit about contact range gunfighting. I know that nothing I say or do will satisfy most of the posters in this thread but whatever.

originally posted by: alienjuggalo
a reply to: Answer
Dang it's not like you know it's a cop car coming at you at night with his brights on.

So now we are not suppose to let anyone know their high beams are on and just be blinded?

Yeah that's safer..

You learn the difference between high beams and normal HID's... which 2 other drivers are now aware of after that night because they didn't go full retard on a cop and get themselves killed.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Answer

Ah i only saw the top first photo. So he git a cut on his left eyebrow not a laceration to the nose. I see a barely perceptible black eye and a scuff on the left of his head. Looks more like he fell and hit his head than a series of punches to the face.

What pummeling the face looks like.

usatmmajunkie.files.wordpress.com...

i.dailymail.co.uk...

i3.mirror.co.uk...

Here's what single glancing blow to the face looks like.

cdn.inquisitr.com...


i2.mirror.co.uk...

i2.mirror.co.uk...

Here's Steven Tyler after a shower slip n fall. Some cuts, some bruising. No massive swelling.

i.dailymail.co.uk...

Heres whgat a slip n fall facial injury looks like

www.dianabarshaw.com...

www.burgessadventures.com...

See the difference between getting pummeled in the face, take any kinda punch to the face and a slip n fall. Swelling. Lots of swelling.

Go here and read Pg. 8 for a description of his injuries. I'm sorry that he doesn't look "beat up enough" to you...

Full Report

It doesn't take much to knock a person unconscious.

originally posted by: bastion


Completely agree - if he can't take a punch from an unarmed 17 year old of light build (if he was punched, those two photos look like a knock from falling, not the impact of a punch), how's he going to deal with someone much stronger, heavier or better equipped then he is? His defence of 'I shot him because he might have punched me then shot me' shows he wasn't fit to wear the uniform or carry a gun as he's a danger to himself and other people.

I'm going to guess you've never been in a real fight or you wouldn't be shooting your mouth off like that.

a reply to: Answer

I've done mock SAS training (equivalent of US navy seals) first thing we learnt is how to take a punch, leaning into a weaker opponent is pretty easy - the rest of training I failed miserably. I'd expect a fully trained officer to be far more capable then I am at reading body language, pupil dilation, face going pale and all the other give always someone is getting ready to strike and prepare accordingly.

It saddens me to say I've had much younger and weaker people pull knives on me and hold them to my chest/eye on one occasion when trying to mug me - it didn't end well for them. I gave time and distance as I was scared #less so made sure to level with them as people to make an emotional connection so they'd see me as a person not someone to rob, while buying myself time to think straight I waited until their guard was down, took one down with a boot to the kneecap and the other with a punch to the solar plexus, got their weapons and legged it.

I'm no body builder, super hero or anything particularly special apart from playing a lot of endurance sport (hence the mock training). While a punch to the right areas will take the hardest and biggest of people down, it's up to the other to make sure they never get into a position where such a strike is possible in containment/restrainment over here.

Here's a vid of 30 unarmed police arresting a man waving a samuri sword at them without any incident or use of force, instead of lethally shooting him the officer uses a nearby bin as a shield when approaching him - officers seem to have a very different style of training over here from what I gather the US chose shock and bombardment tactics to confuse the person while here they isolate and neutralise the threat then wait until the person either gets so bored they give up or gets too tired and makes errors allowing them to arrest without incident.

Sorry don't know how to embedd -www.youtube.com...

This is only my opinion as an ousider to the US - you clearly know a bit about their training and procedures so would welcome your take on my assumption/guess as to what US policing is as it completely baffles me why they're allowed to carry guns given all the shootings.


EDIT: What I'm attempting to provide is a perspective of how insane this sounds in the EU - last time a guy got shot here (several years back) there were riots up and down the country for days. Seeing a culture that repeatedly accepts cops killing people as standard operating procedure and the culture that creates that is completely alien to me and I'm interested to hear how things got so bad - I'm not saying my opinion is truth, simply an outside perspective on events.

They used to carry a tonfa to hit people with instead of a Taser. The Taser is sometimes ineffectual. The skinny kid didn't look like much of a threat. From the start, it sounded like the kid would resist anything the cop said or did. If it's going to be anything but a routine traffic citation, all the cops like to have back-up. They want the advantage and who can blame them? He should have known a physical struggle was likely and either dealt with it without shooting or waited for reinforcements.
a reply to: bastion

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: framedragged

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: framedragged
a reply to: BASSPLYR

Not to mention the physical distribution of bullet holes in the kid.

The kid is on top of him, he's fumbling with his gun, and he squeezes off 7 shots.

one is downward through the top of his head, one is downward through his right chest, one is downward from his left abdomen, one is one is level with his right armpit, one is level with his left lung, one in his right wrist and one in his arm.

Yeah, aiming down through someone's body sure follows with him sitting on you with their head to the sky.

sure. Sounds real plausible, I'm sure someone will be along to answer the discrepencies shortly.

Yeah, I'm gonna need a source for that information. I haven't found ANYTHING stating that the shots were "downward" and that would have obviously gone against everything the prosecutor said.

Post a source or stop spreading lies.

mgtvwlns.files.wordpress.com...

There ya go, autopsy report on page 9

a reply to: vonclod

Posted it above.


Quite frankly the autopsy report is damning for the officer's testimony in one way or another. The shots are fairly believable if Guilford was NOT on his hips, but behind them (ie, in a really bad MMA grappling position). But if he was on his hips, as the testimony states (ie, a really good MMA grappling position) then there is no way he got a bead on the top of his scalp.

Thank you for that.

Read the description of the fight and it matches up with the bullet trajectories.

Imagining how the officer was holding the pistol, I would imagine that he was trying to keep it high up, so his arms were still partially blocking his head. As the shots were fired, Guilford started to collapse onto the officer, hence the upper chest shot that travels almost directly downward and the head shot traveling from right upper skull to the bottom left.

I wish I could draw a diagram or act it out because it's hard to visualize unless you know a bit about contact range gunfighting. I know that nothing I say or do will satisfy most of the posters in this thread but whatever.

I thought you came armed with facts not your imagination. I can imagine anything I want lol

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: alienjuggalo
a reply to: Answer
Dang it's not like you know it's a cop car coming at you at night with his brights on.

So now we are not suppose to let anyone know their high beams are on and just be blinded?

Yeah that's safer..

You learn the difference between high beams and normal HID's... which 2 other drivers are now aware of after that night because they didn't go full retard on a cop and get themselves killed.

Again only after he was tazed (while laying face down in the snow) did he fight back. I think there was no reason to taze him at all..

And being a mouthy little douchebag is not a good enough reason to taze someone. Go ahead and imagine how he was stalling to drive off or go for a gun he didn't have.

a reply to: Answer

"... and Deven sat on his hips, repeatedly punching him in the head."

This is describing Deven mounting the officer at the hips.

In this scenario, there is no way for Deven to have collapsed with his head below the officer's, unless Deven was at least a foot and a half shorter than the officer.

Imagine whatever you want, but the geometry of getting shot through the top of the head while laying on someone (ie crumpled on top of them) from a mount position still ain't jiving.

Again, if Deven was NOT on his hips he could have crumpled on the officer and exposed his head. But not from a mounted position. And if Deven was not on his hips he also probably wasn't "repeatedly punching him in the head", at least not with any actual force. Unless he was mounted. In which case he never exposed his scalp.

It's one or the other unless Deven is a midget.



And you know what else? Even if he crumples on him and exposes his scalp to the officer, it's still a straight up execution. "He's had 5 rounds pumped into him and collapsed, better get one in the dome to make sure he's down! Ah s# I missed again and hit him in the shoulder, better get one more in him to be safe!"

originally posted by: framedragged

And you know what else? Even if he crumples on him and exposes his scalp to the officer, it's still a straight up execution. "He's had 5 rounds pumped into him and collapsed, better get one in the dome to make sure he's down! Ah s# I missed again and hit him in the shoulder, better get one more in him to be safe!"

Or he shot the kid in a moment of rage, the kid's flailing around screaming and the horrified cop finally put the quietus to him in the old fashioned way.

I sort of suspected early in the thread the angles of the shots weren't going to be all that supportive of the cop's story.

a reply to: Answer Car headlights are supposed to be properly aligned too and is under the same vehicle equipment laws.

I still would like to know why there is no dash cam.

a reply to: Bedlam

You'd think there'd be some upwards trajectories in the party line version as well. Or at least some level ones in the abdomen.

a reply to: sean

They aren't required where this took place. The report makes specific mention that this isn't the only car without a dash cam on the the force. /shrug

a reply to: Bedlam

After reading that report and seeing the medical examiner's report---I have to conclude that both these men are human pretzels with a touch of super powers. The kid was able to levitate from flat on his belly with one arm bent behind his back, being tazed, and in less than 10 seconds switch positions with Officer Rubber Arms.
I'd really like to see the bloodwork done on the officer at the hospital. Did they do a wide-screen drug test including steroids and the like?
What was coursing through his bloodstream that wouldn't let him go sit in his cruiser, or better yet, engage the kid in conversation until back-up arrives? What was it that made him go all psycho and feeling the need to drag the kid out of the vehicle into a roadway?

originally posted by: Parthin96
They used to carry a tonfa to hit people with instead of a Taser. The Taser is sometimes ineffectual. The skinny kid didn't look like much of a threat. From the start, it sounded like the kid would resist anything the cop said or did. If it's going to be anything but a routine traffic citation, all the cops like to have back-up. They want the advantage and who can blame them? He should have known a physical struggle was likely and either dealt with it without shooting or waited for reinforcements.
a reply to: bastion

Thanks, that's same way it works over here and they carry the same tonfa here with the occasional taser carried as last resort. It's also the procedure the officer in the video appeared to be following right until he tried getting in the car. The kid was obviously stalling and panicking and making up nonsense about dropping people at church to try and that's the point over here they'd radio for back up and do a mental run through of where all their kit is to make sure they can deal with a physical struggle if it happens.

While they're busy waiting for back up and making sure the situation is contained, the potential trouble maker has time to calm down, start doubting themselves and will generally calm down and pass off without incident when the initial shock and adrenaline rush has calmed down. Usually after then the person realises what a complete irrational idiot they've been and becomes completely compliant and appologetic to police and police are understanding of the situation as they're trained for it.

originally posted by: diggindirt
a reply to: Bedlam

After reading that report and seeing the medical examiner's report---I have to conclude that both these men are human pretzels with a touch of super powers. The kid was able to levitate from flat on his belly with one arm bent behind his back, being tazed, and in less than 10 seconds switch positions with Officer Rubber Arms.
I'd really like to see the bloodwork done on the officer at the hospital. Did they do a wide-screen drug test including steroids and the like?

This. How either the victim or officers actions as described are possible in the 10 -15 time frame is suspect at least - add in the claims the kid was stoned and tased, the officer was nearly beaten unconscious but managed to grab his gun, jam it, unload, reload, take aim and shoot seven shots all while allegedly being punched left right and centre by the 17 year old. If what happened is true then both peopls reaction and recovery times are super human.

The post mortem report says the bullets were fired from an intermediate range - i.e near to the suspect but not touching or close to touching - that doesn't match up with accounts on the person being on top of him and punching him repeatedly while he fired the shots.

I am late to the thread but all I can say is Wow. That cop didn't need to do that what so ever. The cop wanted to prove a point because his girly ego got bruised. He already had other people flash their lights at him so he knew he had a problem with his lights so instead going about his business and getting them checked out but no this thick as S*** cop keeps hassling people. His fragile little ego escalates the issue because he has something to prove. Now a kid is dead over him flashing his lights, how sad. The kid was trying to state his point to a person who was not rational or reasonable and paid the price. Where is the training?

I think everyone has the new disease its called Astynomiaphobia or aka policophobia

So you didn't watch the video?

a reply to: celticdog