Unfulfilled prophecies in the Bible prove its NOT the authority as the word of God

originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: APOCOLYPSE DAWN
I too would like to hear some of these premonitions, especially the written down ones please.

I would also like to state many people turn to hod when they feel all circumstances should have lead to their death. If you could look at yourself during these near death events from the outside, you will discover many compounding "fortunes" ( eg. Car accident cars are designed to take alot of impact to protect driver, your leg will get crushed and the question will be " another inch and it would have hit my artery "). Fortunately for you you are alive cos many many "lucky" variables, or so I would say.

I will give you one of my very first Near death experiences that shook me to the core... Now this isnt your typical I died NDE but an event that had no explanation.

As we all grow up we go to summer camp. For me this was no different than any other year... I was 12 years old and remember it like yesterday. There was a pool and a size-able lake right next to it. The lake was man made and would be shallow for about 5 feet then slope off to 10 feet deep by 10 feet out. going a little further out it was 15-20 ft deep by about 20 feet from shore. Well the camp had a dock which extended 30+ feet out into the water. At the end of the dock was a "blob" from which kids could jump from the second story and eject another kid in the air! Well I wanted to do this soooo badly and the rule was in order to go on the blob you had to bring a partner. Well on this particular day I had been in the pool for several hours like kids do with no rest... I wanted to do the blob but in order for me to go in the lake I had to take a swimming test and be able to tread water for 5 mins... So i took the test without resting from playing and I passed. At the time I was a decent swimmer but not a strong one by any means. So I got out of the pool completely excited and ran to find a partner... but no body wanted to do the blob lol they were scared... So I asked an adult and they mentioned a kid looking for a partner too but he was on the lifeguard float in the middle of the lake (approx. 200ft to the middle). I was tired and still decided to foolishly run to the lake and jump in where I swam to the lifeguard float (5ft by 5ft dock) in the middle of the lake. There was a lifeguard and a kid on the float. I pulled my self up with the help of the lifeguard. He then stated we couldnt be on the float and we had to swim to shore. I asked to catch my breath as I was tired... He said no and proceeded to coerce me off the float... so my new friend jumped in and swam off given that he was rested. I struggled to get to the dock and was about 15 ft from the dock when I began to start to drown... I am a survivor so I called for help and gave everything to stay a float and get closer to the dock... Ultimately getting only a few feet from the end before I went under water for the last time. I couldnt touch the bottom as it was over 20 ft deep... As I sank I fought to get to the surface but to no avail... It was like having an anchor around your waist pulling you down as your legs cramp, lock and fail to kick... All of the sudden I felt something lift me up and push me forward toward the dock. As I got closer to the surface I could see the only lifeguards at that side of the lake running down the stairs to grab me and pull me out... once I got fresh air it was like freedom. With my legs cramped I stayed on the dock with a crowd around me coughing out water and looking for who saved me. After a few moments I asked the lifeguard: "Who Saved me?" the reply I got was no body was in the water but you... We just pulled you out...

So to recap a not so strong and tired 12 year old who was drowning with cramped locked up legs in a lake with no one in the water. Miraculously swims up ~10ft and to the side of the dock another 15+ft... again without being able to swim and without anyone else in the water... This to me was a defining moment in my life knowing that something was looking out for me... No luck was present here... I went back the next day I was soo shocked and asked again. The lifeguard said he had never seen anything like it. even pulled out their stick to help drowning kids thats like 20ft long and ran it down into the water until it disappeared...

Legion of guardian angels my friends legions lol

a reply to: APOCOLYPSE DAWN

These things happen. It would sure be nice to thank the responsible party.


Sometimes a few questions may be in order.

a reply to: flammadraco

With all the threads on ATS regarding “The End Times”, and the coming “Rupture” (which is 2000 years over due), I thought I would take a moment to see how many “Biblical Prophecies” have ever come true!

Below Jesus clearly predicts that his Second Coming will be during the lifetimes of the First Century Christians who lived in their time.

Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Luke 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

The above two verses are not Jesus’ second coming. They pertain to the establishment of New Jerusalem.

Most do not understand these verses because they have no understanding of Jesus’ kingdom. As was discussed in another thread, The kingdom of God is a spiritual indwelling of His Spirit. The kingdom of heaven is a celestial place within this kingdom of God. The kingdom of God is the infinite Spirit God while the kingdom of heaven is the finite New Jerusalem, New Heaven and New Earth.

The Kingdom of Heaven was not given to mankind till Jesus died and gave His New Covenant which was the release of the justified spirits from Sheol into the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus said that some of those that are standing there before Him shall not die before this kingdom of heaven is established. In other words some that are standing before Him will not ever be in Sheol but will ascend directly to heaven. How will this happen? Some will die before Jesus will die and will see Sheol while some will die after Jesus will die and will not see Sheol.
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In the following three verses, Jesus says that the generation living at the time would experience his second coming.

Mark 13:29-30
(29) So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. (30) Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

Luke 21:31-32
(31) So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. (32) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Matthew 24:33-34
(33) So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
(34)Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

All three apostle are referencing the same event which is Jacobs Trouble or as we understand it the Great Tribulation. To understand you must read the entire thought of verses 24 through 30 which is that of tribulation. Jesus did not say that everyone standing there with Him would see all of this great tribulation. What He saisd is that this generation of when this tribulation happens will see these events unfold.

Re read Mark verse 30, Luke verse 32, and Matthew verse 34. Each and every verse says that this generation, meaning the generation in which the tribulation shall occur, will see the Kingdom of God. That is that this generation will not pass till the first resurrection or gathering occurs.
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Ezekiel made a prophecy that in 587BC, at the time when Nebuchadnezzar was laying siege on Tyre.

Ezekiel 26:7-14
For thus says the Lord: "Behold I will bring upon Tyre from the north Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, and with horsemen and a hosts of many soldiers. He will slay with the sword your daughters on the mainland; he will set up a siege wall against you. He will direct the shock of his battering rams against your walls, and with his axes he will break down your towers...With the hoofs of his horses he will trample all your streets; he will slay your people with the sword and your mighty pillar will fall to the ground...they will break down your walls and destroy your pleasant houses... I will make you a bare rock...you shall never be rebuilt, for I have spoken," says the Lord God.

The whole passage clearly prophesied the complete destruction of Tyre by Nebuchadnezzar. However, the vivid description of the fall of Tyre never happened. Nebuchadnezzar did not destroy Tyre. Tyre was destroyed by Alexander the Great, 240 years later. And furthermore, despite the prophet, the city of Tyre was eventually rebuilt.

The Tyre prophecy is an old debate of which even the scholars are still debating today. It would take a volume of space and really not prove your claim of unfulfilled prophecy. Also it was not Alexander the Great who utterly destroyed Tyre but were the Muslims who came after Alexander who completed the destruction of Tyre. Ezekiel did prophecy that many nations would be required to destroy Tyre and it was exactly that.
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Here God tells Isaac that his descendents (Hebrews) will be as numerous as the stars. Considering the number of stars there are in the universe, that would have to be on the order of Billions if not trillions of Jewish people.

Genesis 26:3-4
(3) Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; (4)And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

You have misunderstood this prophecy. God is not talking about just Hebrews. God is talking about many nations that come from Abram who at the time was not a Hebrew. Jewish people are not the only nation from Abram’s seed. Also the prophecy does not say the number of people but only infers the propagation as the stars of heaven as comparison to people on earth.

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The Canaanite language has never been spoken in Egypt, and is now an extinct.

Isaiah 19:18 In that day shall five cities in the land of Egypt speak the language of Canaan, and swear to the LORD of hosts; one shall be called, The city of destruction.

During the period of the Exodus there were a great number of Hebrews (well over one million) who did inhabit Egypt and threatened over five cities with overwhelming Hebrew language and ordainences. Among who the greatest city was the city of destruction which was Heliopelies or ‘Ir-ha-heres- Hebrew is a Canaanite language and by the way it is not a dead language.
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We shall have to wait for all prophecy to be fulfilled as there is plenty of time left on the old calendar. Your understanding of scripture is not very well accepted by most biblical scholars. There is quite a list of prophecies which have been fulfilled as well as those yet to be fulfilled but it would take a book to list them.

a reply to: flammadraco

The first two prophecies you listed did occur as stated. The issue relates to your confusion between Christ's kingdom and his second coming.

Let me elaborate:

"Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:21-22.

Plainly, this describes Christ's kingdom as His rule/dominion within our hearts and minds, not as some external event.

Some of those present with Jesus at the time he said they would see the Kingdom of God, did see Christ after the resurrection and watched as His notional kingdom spread across the world.

The next prophecy does not relate to the generation existing at the time, but refers to the generation that sees all the specific signs He spoke of previously. The original Greek text makes this quite clear, it is the translation into English, which has much weaker tenses and attribution, that is causing your confusion.

The prophecy did not say that Nebucadnezzar would destroy Tyre, it clearly said he would lay siege to it, break down its walls and kill its daughters. This did happen in 586-573 BC.

The prophecy did say "They will break down your walls and destroy your pleasant houses. Your stones and timber and soil they will cast into the midst of the waters". This is precisely what Alexander the Great did to build a land bridge out to the fortified island so that their arrows and spears were in range.

As to the rebuilding of Tyre, if you go to the location in Google Earth you can verify that there are no dwellings, only ruins. Tyre was once a large sea port and a major hub of commerce (like New Your or Paris is today) but it no longer exists.

The confusion you have is that you believe, because Nebuchadnezzar was mentioned specifically, that he was the only agent of destruction upon Tyre. Tyre was attacked 11 times in its history and rebuilt 10 times. It lays now exactly as predicted and the prophecy has strikingly clear depictions of the events.

I will answer the other issues later as I have to go to work now.

... but so far, you have not been right even once.

a reply to: flammadraco

As both of the posters above have mentioned.

‘There will be some of you standing here who will not see death because you will have eternal life.’


Mark 9:1. And He was saying to them, "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power."
Luke 9:27. "But I say to you truthfully, there are some of those standing here who shall not taste death until they see the kingdom of God."
Matthew 16.28. "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."


Now, read the context:

John 3:3. Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

John 8:51. "Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death."

Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with [a]signs to be observed; 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”(Luke 17:20-21).

Anyone attempting to disparage the bible because of unfulfilled prophecies is almost as stupid as the person who takes its word literal.

Please pardon me, but was this mentioned in the thread:

the King James version of the wholly bible?

Please research for me and give a synopsis by this Friday. Just reply to my post(~).
tyvm

Do you know why religion was created in the first place? ( I do )

IAMtheNobody

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: APOCOLYPSE DAWN

Thanks but no thanks! no need to go through each scripture I gave an example off as I am sure we could play that game all day.

Personally, I do not believe in any "MAN MADE" religion but I was expecting someone to come along to state "you have it out of context".

Thanks for reading anyway!

It seams to me like you started this game and Apocolypse Dawn proved you ignorant then you decide not to play the game you started. People that argue the validity of the Bible should in the very least learn a bit about it. These threads are just click bait.

a reply to: APOCOLYPSE DAWN

Cheers for sharing that. Much appreciated. Based on what uve said it's near impossible not to derive at your beliefs. Only till you experience these sort of things you won't know what you feel.

a reply to: Kargun

Seems to me that your thread "Christians are Great" was "just click bait" to buddy!!

What's the difference between the two threads! Opposing opinions and as you don't like my opinion you class it as click bait goes to prove what a hypocrite you are!

:

It's idiots like you that makes people like me hate relgion for the brainwashing it does to folk!

a reply to: IsntLifeFunny

Saying the "end is nigh" because the bible says so is also stupid and thus if you are read the OP you would have noticed that was what this thread was about!

a reply to: infolurker

What is it with you guys using scripture to argue your point with someone who has already informed you that they don't believe diddlysquat in it?

You showing scripture from the bible to prove your point would be akin to me showing you passages from Moby Dick. Would mean as much to you as your post means to me.

They were just a few examples in the OP, could give more but would get the normal growd saying "that's out of context"! Seems funny how some Christians hate gay marriage because it's in the bible but everything else is either out of context or should not be taken literally. Seems to me that there are a lot of Cafeteria Christians on ATS!!

a reply to: flammadraco

You will never find a true christian, most people just use it as a label as a sense of belonging and identity. Many admit they don't believe the bible but still refer to themselves as christians ( always baffled me). If there was such a thing as a proper christian who follows the bible like it was intended then they unfortunately would be on death row.

Adleast extremist muslims follow the the scriptures. It's very difficult to find how there actions are "wrong" based on the scriptures they use, just splitting hairs when interpreting.

a reply to: flammadraco

Regarding the descendents of Isaac being as numerous as the stars. Firstly, as no specific number was given, it is obviously poetic language and not literal. Secondly, it is also obvious that the prophecy is talking about visible stars. Human eyesight can only see objects brighter than 6.5 magnitude. A brief glance at the Yale Bright Star Catalog, which tabulates ALL stars 6.5 magnitude or brighter, reveals only 9,096 objects (in both hemispheres!). I doubt that Isaac (the recipient of the prophecy) would have an understanding of a universe with somewhere between 10^22 to 10^24 invisible stars. This being the case, the prophecy has come true.

In regard to the river Nile drying up, there have been several times when the Nile has dried up. Carved into a rock on an island in the river at Aswan is this lamentation: "For seven years the Nile has not risen. The fields are dry, no man buries his neighbor…. Children weep…. All Egypt perishes". In more recent times, Hosni Mubarak was deposed in 2011 and subsequently the Egyptian military are now unable to defend Egyptian control over the Nile headwaters. This has meant that the "Grand Ethiopian Renaissance Dam", whose cornerstone has already been laid, will mean that the Blue Nile is likely to be dammed close to its headwaters. The project begins in 2016 and is scheduled to complete in 2017. This is likely to reduce the flow of the Nile and, in a drought, to dry it up completely.

Hebrew is a Canaanite language, a version of it was spoken in Egypt (by the Semitic Hyskos kings) and is not extinct.

a reply to: flammadraco

In Isaiah 11:1 it says, "Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse, and a branch from his roots will bear fruit." In Hebrew, the word for "branch" is netzer, "NZR" (there are no vowels in ancient Hebrew). Nazareth, spelt in ancient Hebrew is NZR with a letter Tav. Matthew was using Hebrew wordplay, (examples of which are spread throughout the Old Testament) which is used frequently in Hebrew prophecy.

As for the prophecies in The Revelation, most of its prophecies did see fulfillment before the first century AD. It is only recently that Christians have come to believe that Revelation speaks only of the "end of days". Revelation refers to things that began at the Creation, all the way through to the end of days. Most Christians would have seen the destruction of Jerusalem and the persecution by Nero as the end times (it was the end of Temple Judaism) and Nero was clearly anti-Christ.

It would be irrational to infer from anything in your post that there will never be an end to the world (even science says there will be) or that there will be no second coming of Christ. You are drawing conclusions based entirely upon your opinion, not on empirical evidence or deduction.

Great thread Op. Very good points made...

Although I don't need the fake prophecies to know that bible was written by naive ignorant superstitious men.

As long as I first read the genesis,, I knew I had to do with big smelly bullsh!t.

Let's see, we have day and night before the sun was created
plants are older than the sun, and so is the Earth and seas
Also why are those two referred as something separate aren't the seas part of the planet Earth? This shows that those who wrote genesis (or god himself, since it's god-breathed) didn't even knew the earth was a planet, for them the earth meant the ground and nothing more, which is normal for a flat Earth society, but not for the creator
and it took him five days to create earthy things, while it took him just one day to make the moon the sun and the ~1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars and their planets-worlds in the vast complex universe. Yet the creation doesn't even speak about a vast universe as we know it, it just calls it sky and ''Heavens'' as they imagined it above their flat Earth.

Wouldn't an omniscient and omnipotent perfect god who created everything, know any better than this?
It's like me claiming to have build the empire state building, while I have no idea how it was build, presenting faulty plans of the building.

You would expect the creator of this majestic complicated cosmos to write a better explanation of his creation.

It's a proven scum, but I'll admit it, faith can do miracle's happen
It can make normal people of the 21st century, take teachings, morals, build close minded societies, act hatred to other religions, believe and live their lives, on a scum made thousands years ago to serve as a guiding tool to some primitive desert people....

Absolutely disturbing...

a reply to: flammadraco

Nothing in The Bible PROVES anything. It's just a book, written by men with an agenda, 2000 years ago.

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: infolurker

What is it with you guys using scripture to argue your point with someone who has already informed you that they don't believe diddlysquat in it?

You showing scripture from the bible to prove your point would be akin to me showing you passages from Moby Dick. Would mean as much to you as your post means to me.

They were just a few examples in the OP, could give more but would get the normal growd saying "that's out of context"! Seems funny how some Christians hate gay marriage because it's in the bible but everything else is either out of context or should not be taken literally. Seems to me that there are a lot of Cafeteria Christians on ATS!!

Can you read?

Try it. You present something out of context. I provide the definition quoted from the book you are misquoting.

Pretty simple Jack.

You are saying "seeing the kingdom of God is the 2nd coming".

I show you that it is not.

Reading comprehension .

You are making false statements or conclusions based on lack of knowledge or purposely. Either way, you are incorrect. Nothing more, nothing less.

a reply to: infolurker

So some of those people, shall not taste death
-until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power,
-until they see the kingdom of God (somehow)
-until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.

but ''if anyone keeps My word he will never see death''. (without necessarily seeing the kingdom of god?)
but unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (anyway)+

So how are those people shall not taste death, but they'll see the kingdom of God,
but then again, they have to be born again,
but to be born again they have to die,
but then again, they shall not taste death
But they'll see the kingdom of God

And finally

“The kingdom of God is not coming with [a]signs to be observed; 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”(Luke 17:20-21).

Luke calls John a liar because revelations are nothing else, but signs...

And yet somehow all the above contradictions make perfect sense for christians, who desperately try to find a non obvious ''deeper'' meaning to those things that don't add up otherwise.

a reply to: flammadraco
Many bible prophesies have already been fulfilled, there are many still to come. Still others have dual fulfillments one minor and one major. Many had a minor fulfillment in the first century but would have a major one in the "last days"

Here is just one example

Matthew 24: 14-16

14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
15 “Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment)
16 then let those in Ju·de′a begin fleeing to the mountains.

So in the first century the preaching in all the inhabited earth refereed to the geographical area of the Roman Empire.
Obviously there was no preaching done in the American continents at that time. Christianity spread through the empire. "The end" was a refefecnce to the Jewish system of things, not the entire world. This began in 66 AD when General Cestus Gallus Roman legions undermined the temple wall. Now a "disgusting thing" was standing in a holy place to the Jewish people, but not to the Christians. The Christians had to flee the region when they saw this happen, as times would become very difficult in Judea and Jerusalem. Which they did, after for some unknown reason General Gallus withdrew his forces, this was a window for Christians to escape. But in 70 AD General Titus returned with the Roman legions and finished the job reducing Jerusalem to rubble, and the Jews were scattered, thus their end had come.

This is all proven history and not in dispute.

Now we come to our day the internet has allowed the bible into any country with a connection, it is in more languages than ever before, before the internet you might not have access to the bible writings in your country and in your language but that is no longer true. Christianity is worldwide. The end this time is not just one geographical area either it encompasses the whole world and all it's systems coming to an end, just like the Jewish systems came to an end.
Verse 15 has not happened yet in the modern age, we are waiting for that prophesy, but it involves a world power doing something very offensive(disgusting) to religion and it will be worldwide.
That's why it is the only place in the bible it says "let the reader use discernment"