Russia says will retaliate if U.S. weapons stationed on its borders

originally posted by: devilmoon
a reply to: Gianfar

I don't really take sides. just cold hard cash

politicos and banksters are all the same no matter what country they originate from.

and it's not so much that the g7 are more greedy. and more that they have been so incompetent for so long they are now bankrupt and scrabbling for scraps of resources wherever they can get them while no one is willing to support then. at home or abroad.

It goes much deeper than that. Petroleum is the number one economic security issue and whoever meters the flow controls the destiny of global markets. I know that US petroleum initiatives in the Middle East has been in the planning for decades.

a reply to: Gianfar

agree completely.

but in the post mass communications era. war and corruption no longer wins you friends. because there will always be someone who wasn't corrupted who knows what you did and can get the message out.

but don't get too misled.
it's not really about the oil.
The fighting is everything about sitting in the middle of every transaction and taking a cut. be that oil, gold, steel, concrete or Google ad words.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: Gianfar

How come, then, that these "land grabs" ended up with the US withdrawing and having little influence in Iraq?

How come, then, that many of the Oil contracts dished out post invasion actually went to non US Oil firms? Only two contracts out of around 23 went to US firms, while 3 are Chinese firms and 2 are Russian firms? 4 contracts have been given to a Malaysian firm.

As for Afghanistan, China is their biggest investor after the invasion. They are opening up huge mines and other industrial projects across the country.

None of what you said makes any sense when you look at the facts on the ground.

Let me tell you that the "ground" you're standing on is the moon. Your information is totally wrong and misrepresented. There are tons of well documented articles by award winning journalists and entire books dealing with this issue researched by top notch professors and intellectuals. There's a long paper trail of evidence that oil firms and western governments discussed controlling and profiting from untapped oil reserves in both countries and large profits have been made by petro companies and others.

Your rambling might be able to create doubt in someone who hasn't done his homework, but not me. And please, don't ask for links. If you're smart enough to post on this website, you can do the research yourself.

originally posted by: devilmoon
a reply to: Gianfar

agree completely.

but in the post mass communications era. war and corruption no longer wins you friends. because there will always be someone who wasn't corrupted who knows what you did and can get the message out.

but don't get too misled.
it's not really about the oil.
The fighting is everything about sitting in the middle of every transaction and taking a cut. be that oil, gold, steel, concrete or Google ad words.

By that statement I'll assume you don't know much about economics and especially what drives the global economy these days. Everyone has a right to his opinion, even if it isn't based on facts. You haven't done your homework, so you've become another one of the deniers. If you can't save the world, at least save yourself.

a reply to: Gianfar

for a little while.

then russia retaliated by funding the guys they agreed to fund during saddams days and it all started going downhill for them.

what the didn't win by contracting.

they now control by

america.aljazeera.com...

originally posted by: devilmoon
a reply to: Gianfar

for a little while.

then russia retaliated by funding the guys they agreed to fund during saddams days and it all started going downhill for them.

what the didn't win by contracting.

they now control by

america.aljazeera.com...

Now thats a good post source. Thanks indeed.

a reply to: Gianfar

There's a long paper trail of evidence that oil firms and western governments discussed controlling and profiting from untapped oil reserves in both countries and large profits have been made by petro companies and others.

But who is actually profiting? All you are doing is denying what has been said. You need to back it with facts, not rhetoric.

a reply to: DJW001

I'll go with.
everyone except the g7

cos that's what loosing looks like

originally posted by: Gianfar
Your rambling might be able to create doubt in someone who hasn't done his homework, but not me. And please, don't ask for links. If you're smart enough to post on this website, you can do the research yourself.

Haha, right... You say there is a long paper trail, then you should produce it rather than trying to deflect.

As it stands, I've seen who controls what oil fields in Iraq and the US companies have only 2, while Russia and China control 5 between them. Angolan Oil companies control just as many as the US - is Angola now guilty of "land grabs"?

a reply to: stumason

he's right that there is a long paper trail of that being the intention.

haliburton did very very well out of the "reconstruction" contracts too. anyone with an interest in the topic should definately check their links with the bush administration.

it's just that "mission accomplished". as we all know. was a little on the premature side.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Gianfar

There's a long paper trail of evidence that oil firms and western governments discussed controlling and profiting from untapped oil reserves in both countries and large profits have been made by petro companies and others.

But who is actually profiting? All you are doing is denying what has been said. You need to back it with facts, not rhetoric.

What's the point? Are you emphasizing details of the profiteering aspect or the global effects of a war that was purposed in corrupt agendas, now threatening world conflict?

As for the data concerning who profits, there are articles all over the net, as well as other media publications written by journalists. Google it and you'll get the idea.

originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: Gianfar
Your rambling might be able to create doubt in someone who hasn't done his homework, but not me. And please, don't ask for links. If you're smart enough to post on this website, you can do the research yourself.

Haha, right... You say there is a long paper trail, then you should produce it rather than trying to deflect.

As it stands, I've seen who controls what oil fields in Iraq and the US companies have only 2, while Russia and China control 5 between them. Angolan Oil companies control just as many as the US - is Angola now guilty of "land grabs"?

Haha, I thought you were smart enough to Google it yourself.

originally posted by: devilmoon
a reply to: stumason

he's right that there is a long paper trail of that being the intention.

haliburton did very very well out of the "reconstruction" contracts too. anyone with an interest in the topic should definately check their links with the bush administration.

it's just that "mission accomplished". as we all know. was a little on the premature side.

True. But since 2012 the Iraqi Parliament has made it possible for western oil companies, especially US firms to develop and profit from drilling. As for why US oil firms may not appear to have been as heavily involved in Iraq as one would think, is because of the accelerated gains from fracking, which assumably came about due to the fact that the American installed Iraqi president, Al-Maliki rebuffed efforts by agents of Exxon Mobil to sign 30 year development contracts and instead contracted Chinese drilling companies to work on a conditional basis.

That of course doesn't change the whole dynamic of US military bases scattered in that region, controlling and protecting their interests. It doesn't change the perception of two other super powers that American greed is stronger than the consequences of reprisal.

a reply to: Gianfar

like i said.

don't get too distracted by the oil thing.

it's important yes.
but crude is actually only a tiny portion of a very very large global economy. for example china is a coal economy and up until fairly recently Iran was a massive petroleum and plastics importer.

we now live in the days when the most wanted "war criminal" barely left their apartment near the black Sea. and from there emptied western bank accounts to the tune of hundreds of billions.

originally posted by: devilmoon
a reply to: MrSpad

not sure what you mean by lack of international support.
is anyone outside of the technically insolvent g7 economies agreeing to go along with anything those banksters propose willingly??

What is the insolvent g7 nonsense? And why do you think they are the ones in charge of sanctions? And you do know that the G7 is only 7 nations, that was the G8 until Russia was suspended over the invasion of Crimea. The nations currently with sanctions on Russia are EU members Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungry, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden and the UK. Non EU nations also placing sanctions on Russia include Australia, Albania, Iceland, Canada, Lichtenstein, Norway, New Zeland, USA, Ukraine, Montenegro, Switzerland and Japan.

And when I say lack of international support I mean even nations like China and Iran do not recognized Russia's annexation of Crimea. And when the UN voted to denounce the Crimean referendum it passed with 100 voting for it while Russia could manage only 10 other votes against it. Iran and China simply did not vote to avoid taking sides. And to ad to all that India and Vietnam some of Russia largest and oldest arms buyers have turned to the US, Japan and Europe not only for arms but for military pacts. Then recall the Arab League was once Russian backed and now has changed camps to the US. Africa where Russia once help lots of influence has also moved into the Wests camp with the African Union signing cooperation treaties with NATO. Even Cuba has seen the writing on the wall and is pushing for US ties.

Russia was once a nation with global influence. Those days are gone. Now Russia is nation scorned by most modern nations and being milked for cheap oil from places like China who knows Russia has nowhere else to go.

a reply to: Gianfar

What's the point? Are you emphasizing details of the profiteering aspect or the global effects of a war that was purposed in corrupt agendas, now threatening world conflict?

No, I'm asking you to stop making false and inflammatory statements and backing up what you do say with facts.

As for the data concerning who profits, there are articles all over the net, as well as other media publications written by journalists. Google it and you'll get the idea.

Funny, I thought you were the one trying to make a point. Why don't you google it and then come back here and prove what you claim? Or did you do it already and found out that the claims your have been making are completely unsupported? (That's usually the case when someone tells someone else to do their research for them.)

a reply to: Gianfar

No they didn't. China by far came out on top with regards to Iraqi oil.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

And yet Russia recognized Ukraine as a sovereign nation. The UN recognizes Ukraine as a sovereign nation.

The same can't be said for Russians invasion of Crimea.

Putin is destroying Russia and must be stopped.

If nothing else people have to admire you enthuthiastic trolling on anything Russia related.
You are one of the most anti-Russia characters I've ever seen on the Internet, and yet you turn around willy nilly talking about potentially saving Russia from Putin.
Putin has done more good for Russia then he has bad. Why would Russian's want him gone? Because of the propaganda in the western media about him that people like you bandy about on Internet forums as if it is gospel?

originally posted by: mortex

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

And yet Russia recognized Ukraine as a sovereign nation. The UN recognizes Ukraine as a sovereign nation.

The same can't be said for Russians invasion of Crimea.

Putin is destroying Russia and must be stopped.

If nothing else people have to admire you enthuthiastic trolling on anything Russia related.
You are one of the most anti-Russia characters I've ever seen on the Internet, and yet you turn around willy nilly talking about potentially saving Russia from Putin.
Putin has done more good for Russia then he has bad. Why would Russian's want him gone? Because of the propaganda in the western media about him that people like you bandy about on Internet forums as if it is gospel?

Did he hurt your feelings and now you feel you somehow have to attack him instead if what he says? As for being good for Russia he was things change he's now taking over every aspect of their lives. He's destroyed their economy and has gone so a far as killing Russian families asleep in their beds in the moscow apartment bombings. And has had any people who oppose him killed or jailed. Power can change people and in his case I believe it has.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: mortex

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

And yet Russia recognized Ukraine as a sovereign nation. The UN recognizes Ukraine as a sovereign nation.

The same can't be said for Russians invasion of Crimea.

Putin is destroying Russia and must be stopped.

If nothing else people have to admire you enthuthiastic trolling on anything Russia related.
You are one of the most anti-Russia characters I've ever seen on the Internet, and yet you turn around willy nilly talking about potentially saving Russia from Putin.
Putin has done more good for Russia then he has bad. Why would Russian's want him gone? Because of the propaganda in the western media about him that people like you bandy about on Internet forums as if it is gospel?

Did he hurt your feelings and now you feel you somehow have to attack him instead if what he says? As for being good for Russia he was things change he's now taking over every aspect of their lives. He's destroyed their economy and has gone so a far as killing Russian families asleep in their beds in the moscow apartment bombings. And has had any people who oppose him killed or jailed. Power can change people and in his case I believe it has.

The irony of this post.
You are attacking me and trying to belittle me for apparently attacking someone else.
How did I attack him? I called out his obvious trolling. In countless threads he is one of the most vocal anti-Russian posters..he is probably one of the most anti-Russian posters on the whole of ATS.
And now he turns around and acts concerned for what Putin is doing to Russia..with comments implying Russia needs to be saved from Putin.

Why would my feelings be hurt? I'm a first generation Greek Australian. What do I care what people think of Russia?
I don't care much for any world power in fact, because my parents home country is currently being used as a pawn in the world powers monopoly game for control.
You have the EU and Americans pulling on one side, and the Russian's pulling on the other side.
In the middle are ordinary people who've done nothing to deserve this present situation who are suffering and being tormented by all this.

So while I may post things against his posts, and it may appear as if I'm pro-Russian, I couldn't be further from being pro-Russian. Because besides the current games being played by Russia and the other world powers, my family from my dads side who fled to Russia following the genocide and ethnic cleansing the Young Turks began against the Greeks and other Christians in Asia Minor and Anatolia, they were then persecuted by the Russians when the communists took power there.

Us Greeks have the unfortunate gift of knowing what the Ukrainians are going through, being torn between world powers who are interested only in their OWN interests, while countrymen are turned on each other, while the country is being ripped apart, etc etc.

So I feel a lot of sympathy for the ordinary people of Ukraine.
I feel for them because one day they were living their ordinary lives trying to get by, and the next their country is in a war and being ripped apart. I feel for them because they are stuck with politicians who are puppets and agents of the world powers. Because these are the exact same things that have happened and are happening to Greece, and many other countries.

In the end, the ORDINARY PEOPLE are the ones who suffer and pay the biggest price.