Why do people lie about aliens? An in-depth look at why we can discredit near all stories

a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

The way this thread comes off to me is that the OP and other fellow believers cannot manage to accept that their preaching is not being blindly accepted by the unbelievers. So, personal attacks must be forth coming I guess. After all, their position seems to be if you do not believe what we believe, you must be part of the dis-info campaign, or some sort of organized plant to discredit the baseless believe system that Ufology has become.

a reply to: Krakatoa

That's pretty much the way it reads to me, as well. I'm glad I'm not the only one...

originally posted by: fleabit
You assume they even care if we see them. A lot of your post is assumptions on the what an alien might do, think, feel.. they are alien for a reason. And I imagine their thought process and reasoning would be just as alien to us as their appearance. But consider things like: the Phoenix lights, the Tehran sighting in 1972, the more recent sightings in Texas. Those are not black projects. The Air Force does not routinely fly their top secret stuff over major cities. They are a bit strict about that sort of thing. That's usually the last bastion of defense for a UFO debunker - "Hmm.. can't think of anything it can be. Ok.. black project!"

First off, a very insightful post, good to see someone not play the victim and assume the thread is to insult them. I'll take it step by step and answer each paragraph from my view point.

1) The issue of them being visible to us, if you want to study something naturally in life the first thing it does when it see's this unknown object observing it, is run or attack it or they make their own observations. As far as we know, nuclear devices are pretty deadly in our scope, we cannot imagine outside our scope or it will lead to madness. To first observe you must stay out of sight, if not you possibly lose your chance as most times things tend to walk away from the unknown. But you do have a point, but them allowing us to see them is near reckless. Recklessness isn't a good exhibition of intelligence.

2) That's an interesting picture but I've overslept before and that could be the result of you sheets crimped and against your leg for some time, as well as it could be a myriad of other things. But yes this is something that I essentially try to get across the average person that believes in aliens do not question it, they assume it's an abduction. The would most likely then go to a hypno and subconsciously tell a story similar to what they have read somewhere or heard.

3) First detonated nuke was in the 1940s and then we had area 51 built not much later, as well as heavy aircraft research. The SR-71 built 1966 seems way ahead of it's time to me back then. But yes I do have the view that they could be monitoring us, and just as we would take time to land and contact an animal or try to touch an animal they would too, I'm not against this.

4) It's not just common illnesses but it's a matter of biology, if they could protect against it then they'd have to fully understand what our biology is like and the effect any of our forms of bacteria may have on them. Which would then go back to unnecessary abductions, but then I suppose the point of them abducting us to find out would come into play here.

5) As we are, we can only compare things to our scope, or it becomes madness. But looking at it now, energy is fairly abundant actually, and it is us who cannot properly harvest it.

6) In-regards to our intelligence, just in some other thread I saw a point, "Life began what was about 3.8 Billion years ago, but that's also the length of time to develop life of our magnitude." As well as the factor of us not knowing what sparked life which came about 700 Million years after. So it's essentially difficult to trying and figure out the odds of intelligent life that would exist out there. As well as we are on the verge of our own extinction. So the possibilities both for and against life are endless. Meteors could've wiped what would have been many races before they even got past the stone age.

I've noticed a trend where majority of UFO sightings are USA based, but as for the two you mentioned.
Phoneix lights - There's a video somewhere suggesting that it was flares. The lights essentially do look like flares.
As for the Tehran incident - This happened over Iran? At that time, I'm sure the SR-71 would've been magic to some of these nations, that sounds more human tech to me than alien tech, emp/emi to disable electronics or just regular signal jammers. But to explain it without a black project I essentially wouldn't know what to tell you.

originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

The way this thread comes off to me is that the OP and other fellow believers cannot manage to accept that their preaching is not being blindly accepted by the unbelievers. So, personal attacks must be forth coming I guess. After all, their position seems to be if you do not believe what we believe, you must be part of the dis-info campaign, or some sort of organized plant to discredit the baseless believe system that Ufology has become.

Well the way I intended the thread to come off was as food for thought really. It's not an attack on believers nor non believes, I try to respect the views of everyone equally because none of us here have solid proof of either stance. But there are alot of persons who also encounter something strange and jump the gun and assume it's aliens so this thread is but just to provide a perspective. Unless OP in this sense speaks to the initial quote.

originally posted by: Harte


Link?



Harte

www.csicop.org...

Enjoy the charade.

The men’s fantastic report drew much skepticism. Famed UFO skeptic Philip J. Klass noted discrepancies in Hickson’s account (for instance, once referring to the creatures as having a “hole” for a mouth but later calling it a “slit”). Klass also pointed out that the lie-detector test was conducted by an “inexperienced” polygraph operator and that Hickson refused to take another administered by an expert police examiner. Based on other evidence—including the fact that Hick­son had once been fired for improperly obtaining money from employees under his supervision—Klass concluded the case was a hoax ([1974] 1976, 347–69; 1989, 18–19).

Fascinating. This is the part that I like most when the so self called 'skeptics' try to debunk a case like this:

-First he said a 'hole', later a 'slit'.
-The lie-detector test was conducted by an “inexperienced” people. (Opinion).
-Hick­son had once been fired for improperly obtaining money from employees (Certainly relevant!).

Of course Klass ignores EVERYTHING else, like that we have TWO WITNESSES describing the same event, like they're put under a wired room and they continue talking each other, still shocked and stressed because what they recently lived, WITHOUT knowing they're recorded!

Good job Klass! There you have a shinny star!

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
Heres a hint dudes some people are telling the truth.

Truth as in what they think but maybe not truth in what is the actual event. One of the biggest issues here is the vast limitations with human perception. What makes the matter worst is our brains fake us out into thinking we do not have those limitations. Below are some of those limitations to provide awareness of what I'm talking about even though it seems that for many it is fine with them when only the eyewitness is the evidence available for proof positive even with all the disadvantages that makes the eyewitness the worst form of evidence.

Selective Attention Test
“Missing Child” Experiment
Car Crash Experiment
Change Blindness
The McPherson Tape hoax

a reply to: redtic

I look forward to your assessment after watching the video. Sounds like you're leaning towards the "they were lying" scenario. That's the sort of progress I was looking for here. With only three possibilities, we should be able to rule out two as being not very likely.

I've noticed a trend where majority of UFO sightings are USA based, but as for the two you mentioned.
Phoneix lights - There's a video somewhere suggesting that it was flares. The lights essentially do look like flares.
As for the Tehran incident - This happened over Iran? At that time, I'm sure the SR-71 would've been magic to some of these nations, that sounds more human tech to me than alien tech, emp/emi to disable electronics or just regular signal jammers. But to explain it without a black project I essentially wouldn't know what to tell you.

These are exactly the sort of cases that someone in your shoes should be checking out to be honest. It may sway your viewpoint. To put it another way, if I did not read deeply into certain cases, and only knew fringe details about them, I might very had made the exact post you did myself, and really not believe. Those cases are the -reason- many believe something beyond our own tech is going on.

Phoenix lights - you are absolutely correct! The lights filmed from Phoenix were indeed proven to be flares. And if you look no further, that's the conclusion you'd end up with.. flares, end of case. However, that is exactly why those flares were dropped, in sight of the city over the nearby mountain range by the military, for the first and last time. Because hours before, a large triangular craft was reported moving south by a highway patrolman in Nevada. Over the next couple of hours, there were hundreds of sightings, some who saw it fly almost directly overhead, and it was silent, and it was very large.

Then the military oddly drops flares in a triangular pattern in clear view of the city of Phoenix for the first time. On this night of all the reported sightings. What a marvelous coincidence. ; )

The object itself was never seen over Phoenix, but reports were given for a couple more hours, south of Phoenix as well. The case in its entirety paints a different picture. But the flares did their job I suppose.. for many folks who don't dig deeper, it was an open and shut case.

Tehran, I'd also recommend looking up. It's a lot more than an odd shaped plane flying overhead. It was seen from the ground, by military and civilians, was seen on radar, and the brightly and colorfully lit object disabled the electronics on first one and then another jet that was scrambled... and those pilots had quite the story to tell as well. Not a simple black project story either. Nor the sightings in Texas, and there is a handful of other very solid and compelling cases out there. Including Roswell.. I'd recommend reading Stanton Friedman's book on it.

As far as the marks on my legs, my wife and I are baffled. They were fairly deep impressions, and she insisted we try to replicate it with sheet or blanket, but no luck. Probably because we had soft flannel sheets that night, and I sleep on my back, and my left leg is typically partway out of the bed and not covered by anything. And to create the long marks next to each other, we tried.. we couldn't even think of a way to do it with sheets. And they were deep enough and lasted 3 hours.. so we honestly don't think there is any chance that is what caused it. I am leaning more towards medical reasons, but I can't fathom what. Thought perhaps muscle spams in my calf, as I worked out on the elliptical the day before. But the impressions extended well past my calf muscle, onto my leg. Which is another reason we don't think the sheets could have possibly done it. And the sheer exhaustion I felt waking up, and the fact that neither of us woke to my alarm (which I do every day without fail to go to work), made it even weirder. It freaked her out to be honest. I don't chalk it up to abduction, but something caused them. And it's that sort of thing that many people encounter and can't explain.. which doesn't make them liars or whackjobs, but just confused people that want answers.

TPTB want to cover this up for as long as they can because a majority of humanity cannot handle such information. Hell, people get shot every day just because their skin is a different color, now imagine what would happen to those of a different species! It's sad but true that our race is still quite barbaric and most of us still need to be spoonfed.

a reply to: Sharted

You dont think the possibility of every missing persons case turning into a possible abduction case isnt real cause for concern? If we knew aliens were really here, they would have be considered a legitimate suspect.

originally posted by: fleabit(....)
As far as the marks on my legs, my wife and I are baffled.....

Those marks you're talking about are normal if a part of your body is in one place for a long time. Ever get marks on your hands while using the PC if you keep them in one place long enough?

I've had that waking up too. Goes away after an hour or two. Ofc, I don't think "abduction!" when I'm at the PC.

Honestly that's a more likely expanation than aliens. But like you say perhaps it's a medical condition. Has it happened before?

And btw I agree some cases are hard to explain. There're just too many out there too. Like many say, only one has to be right. However, there're cases eyewitness accounts of ghosts and ESP. And yet how many people would agree ghosts are real? Probably not many. The end result is it needs strong supporting evidence, otherwise we may as well believe in vampires, mothman, demons and many other creatures.

I'm in a unique position. I talked with people who told me they saw UFOs (and aliens). Some were young, some were old. So my viewpoint is necessarily less antagonistic. Yet a person claiming to see an alien spaceship or alien is really not any different from a person claiming to know Jesus Christ or a swears they were in the presence of a deceased relative or angel. Again, without strong supporting evidence these're just stories and stories are fun, but stories aren't enough to make it factual.

I like the Kenneth Arnold sighting(s). The official explanation is his (first and famous) sighting was a mirage. What many don't know is he had another sighting. His daughter also claimed he and her mother witnessed a "ball of light" in their house. The man apparently had wild theories about all of it up until the day he died. This wildness didn't help his credibility. And yet it's hard for a person to stay composed when they actually believe aliens are about and can seemingly defy us and exist unhindered. It's such a dramatic shift in perspective when a person makes that (irrational?) leap.

I encourage anybody to investigate his famous sighting and his life which was never the same afterward. It's interesting because it captures so well how ufology fails to convince and still lingers with us.

originally posted by: jonnywhite

originally posted by: fleabit(....)
As far as the marks on my legs, my wife and I are baffled.....

Those marks you're talking about are normal if a part of your body is in one place for a long time. Ever get marks on your hands while using the PC if you keep them in one place long enough?

I've had that waking up too. Goes away after an hour or two. Ofc, I don't think "abduction!" when I'm at the PC.

Honestly that's a more likely expanation than aliens. But like you say perhaps it's a medical condition. Has it happened before?

And btw I agree some cases are hard to explain. There're just too many out there too. Like many say, only one has to be right. However, there're cases eyewitness accounts of ghosts and ESP. And yet how many people would agree ghosts are real? Probably not many. The end result is it needs strong supporting evidence, otherwise we may as well believe in vampires, mothman, demons and many other creatures.

I'm in a unique position. I talked with people who told me they saw UFOs (and aliens). Some were young, some were old. So my viewpoint is necessarily less antagonistic. Yet a person claiming to see an alien spaceship or alien is really not any different from a person claiming to know Jesus Christ or a swears they were in the presence of a deceased relative or angel. Again, without strong supporting evidence these're just stories and stories are fun, but stories aren't enough to make it factual.

This man gets what I'm saying. I've heard ghost stories from my friends countless times, now they are older not even one. Jamaica is a very superstitious place just like many other caribbean countries people claim they see ghosts/Jesus Christ many times, but it's just word of mouth. And you might be saying it's hard to snap a pic of those, then even better yet many of them claim to see mermaids.

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

I suppose the main mark of a civilisation, would be was it "Spacefaring" Or "Terrestrial" If Spacefaring, then it has reached a stage where it can sustain life outside of its Biosphere. In that case it would be natural to assume, the civilisation was no longer competing for natural resources, but could make them as and when required. We are still fighting each other for ever limited naturally occurring resources.

It would also have to have conquered the vast distance issue . That would mean it would have conquered the time thing , If its done that, then would ,a terrestrial observer in a linear time frame, even be able to observe them when they are travelling. When we do observe them, would it have been a mistake on their part, which a memory wipe would soon put right. We assume, that our stage of material development , is a final stage.Yet It might be a primary one, as we haven't got a clue why we are here, all we know is that we are. Perhaps all sentient self aware beings have to endure, this state before they are free of linear time . If that's the case then all the anomalies , certainly would fit into the high tech ,fairy, demon, magic category, as far as our limited point of view is concerned.

Of course people lie, and most people dismiss sightings by a single witness out of hand. However there are cases we can study where multiple people are involved.

Cases recommended by various writers/investigators, compiled by Isaakoi

Some I prefer
Madagascar 54 - Daylight sighting of a silent craft that buzzes Tannarive
Levelland 57 - Several motorist encounter a glowing sphere that stops their motor, police try to locate the object and also confirm it.
Westall 66 (start in at 9:47, picture at 11:00). Daylight sighting of a drone like craft levitates up on a school campus.
Ravenna 66 - Several police chase ufo through 2 states
Minot AFB B-52 incident 68 - radar confirmation case
Belgium 89,90 - (start in at 2:20min) start of the ufo wave


I havent really researched the abduction cases very much, so I wont comment.

originally posted by: skunkape23
I first discovered this site while I was seeking others who have encountered high strangeness and non human intelligences.
I have had these types of encounters.
They can be very disturbing.
I learned pretty quickly that giving accounts here, much the same as anywhere else, gets you shot down.
There are a few exceptions, but they are a persecuted minority.
I still enjoy coming here for breaking alternative news and to drop the occasional quip, but I have chosen to remain silent as far as the real meat and potatoes are concerned.

I can see why you would do that. Perhaps in the "Grey Area?" You don't have to "prove" anything there, but you are free to share your experience?? In any case, I know I would like to hear it!

- AB

originally posted by: 111DPKING111
Of course people lie, and most people dismiss sightings by a single witness out of hand. However there are cases we can study where multiple people are involved.

Cases recommended by various writers/investigators, compiled by Isaakoi

Some I prefer
Madagascar 54 - Daylight sighting of a silent craft that buzzes Tannarive
Levelland 57 - Several motorist encounter a glowing sphere that stops their motor, police try to locate the object and also confirm it.
Westall 66 (start in at 9:47, picture at 11:00). Daylight sighting of a drone like craft levitates up on a school campus.
Ravenna 66 - Several police chase ufo through 2 states
Minot AFB B-52 incident 68 - radar confirmation case
Belgium 89,90 - (start in at 2:20min) start of the ufo wave


I havent really researched the abduction cases very much, so I wont comment.

That's it, these are the cases I rather see. Something unknown in the sky, from even a silly comic as superman, the first thing people do is notice someone looking then curiosity leads them to look as well, when they look then they exclaim. The higher an object then the wider the radius of people allowed to see it. It's hard to believe only 1 person watching the sky see and report an incident.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom

originally posted by: Harte

What you have is testimony coming decades later.

The finding about one bullet hole comes from the actual police reports from the time.

Harte

Testimony coming decades later, and a police report from an inspection done in the middle of the night on an old house in the woods with no electricity. It's possible the police could have missed some, or not recognized the damage as bullet holes, or simply had no way of determining when the damage was done. In any case, it doesn't really matter.

So, the police were there, the same people that decades later made the statement were there, but the police only found one bullet hole?

What, the people were afraid to say they'd shot up the house? Ran around with a roll of masking tape to cover the holes?

If you want witness testimony, I note you omit the witness that only heard four shots.

It doesn't matter to me. I only brought it up to exemplify the premise of the thread - that people lie (or, as I said, are mistaken) about their UFO experiences.

Of course, this particular "shot up the house" lie was told by later authors embellishing the story to maintain the level of chronic astonishment among their readers that is required to keep the bucks rolling in.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoomThe core issue is to explain the story itself. Let's throw out any ET related explanation. That leaves three possibilities that I can think of. It was all a lie, it was a mass hallucination, or it was a mass mis-identification. If anyone can think of another explanation, please chime in. It should be a simple matter to say that one of those is the most likely explanation, but none of those explanations seem to dovetail with the story.

In what way, exactly, do aliens "dovetail" with the story?

Harte

a reply to: SuspiciousTom

...near all stories

That's the key part of your title. Near. Not all. There are enough "unknowns" to warrant investigation.

I'm a skeptic. Died in the wool skeptic. But I've seen things that have shaken my skepticism.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: SuspiciousTom

...near all stories

That's the key part of your title. Near. Not all. There are enough "unknowns" to warrant investigation.

I'm a skeptic. Died in the wool skeptic. But I've seen things that have shaken my skepticism.

It's good to see someone sees it, 'near'. I've also seen things which have me in deep thought as well as various observations around the world that have me wondering

a reply to: SuspiciousTom

It all boils down to the fact that if ONE SINGLE incident is accurate,...JUST ONE,... then the JIG IS UP...

E.T.'s are real and are here... PERIOD...

Statistics and Probability don't lie,... all it takes is ONE SINGLE event to be accurate,...THATS ALL...JUST ONE...

WE ARE BEING VISITED...
The Probability that 100% of ALL REPORTED EVENTS ARE HOAXED OR MIS-IDENTIFIED is mathimatically infinitesimal...

Deal with it...