We Are Being Spied Upon and Freedom of Speech is Gone

I know...I know. We all knew this. We have all said this. But this really hits close to home (or at least should) at ATS. Six commenters over at "Reason", a Libertarian site, made comments online about a judge involved in the Silk Road case. These comments included:

“Its (sic) judges like these that should be taken out back and shot.”
“Why waste the ammunition? Wood chippers get the message across clearly. Especially if you feed them in feet first.”

This is so obviously venting and while I take no position on Silk Road, why would our government investigate this? How did the DOJ end up with this information...NSA?? And exactly when was our freedom of speech, given to us in the Constitution taken from us to the point that the DOJ should get involved in this, collect information on this, spend money and time on this...etc?

My understanding from former law involvement (on the good side) is that a comment like these isn't a threat unless there is an apparent ability to carry out the threat...that the words must show a clear intention to carry out the threat and that there must be a likelihood of success.

FoxNews
Washington Post

edit on 6/12/2015 by WeAreAWAKE because: (no reason given)

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

I don't like this either. But if you actually did study the law. You would realize that threats need to be investigated before they can be ascertained to be critical or not .

The overly graphic nature of the comment suggests a seriously disturbed mind. This individual may indeed be dangerous if they have so little common sense and self control as to post their sadistic fantasies about public figures online.

Double post.

I would disagree. These types of comments are (at least to me) obviously venting, being a smart ass and getting out frustration. They also make a point of not saying "I will" or "I'm going to". They infer that "these people" and "should be". So obvious to me that I think this is a waste of resources.

Even if this only cost one million dollars...that would house 5000 homeless people in a $200 a night hotel room or pay $30K a year to keep a real criminal in prison for 33 years. Over a few stupid statements venting frustration.

And a just as concerning question...was data mining involved in discovering these comments? Does this happen at ATS?

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

I don't like this either. But if you actually did study the law. You would realize that threats need to be investigated before they can be ascertained to be critical or not .

I would appreciate some education if I'm wrong...but how is "it is judges like this that should be take out back and shot" a threat? It sounds (legally) like an opinion. It doesn't satisify any of what I thought the rules were that basically state that it has to sound like a threat (eg. "I'm going to kill him"), and the person saying it must have motive and means.

originally posted by: DJW001
The overly graphic nature of the comment suggests a seriously disturbed mind. This individual may indeed be dangerous if they have so little common sense and self control as to post their sadistic fantasies about public figures online.

Not to argue, but I believe you are referring to the "feet first" comment which I believe originated with Saddam's sons over in Iraq back during that first war. FYI. It wasn't something "creative" this individual came up with.

Don't "vent" on the internet. Everything you put on the internet is forever. You can go outside and scream at the sky and feel better, and it won't come back to haunt you later or embarrass you.

Remember, we are all responsible for what we say on the internet.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Reason is exactly the sort of online publication a judge might read. It is possible that the potential victim read these comments himself and asked for protection. In any event, this is not so much about the right to free speech as it is about the responsibility of accepting the consequences of what you say. In the Founders' day, they still had a duelling tradition. Impuning the honor of a judge with "harmless venting" in a public place could get you killed.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

These types of comments are (at least to me) obviously venting, being a smart ass and getting out frustration.

That's just it unless you know these people personally or are able to read their minds you don't know if it's just venting or an actual threat.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: DJW001
The overly graphic nature of the comment suggests a seriously disturbed mind. This individual may indeed be dangerous if they have so little common sense and self control as to post their sadistic fantasies about public figures online.

Not to argue, but I believe you are referring to the "feet first" comment which I believe originated with Saddam's sons over in Iraq back during that first war. FYI. It wasn't something "creative" this individual came up with.

He could simply have said that the judge's opinion was outrageous and left it at that. There was more going on than just a difference of legal opinion.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: DJW001
The overly graphic nature of the comment suggests a seriously disturbed mind. This individual may indeed be dangerous if they have so little common sense and self control as to post their sadistic fantasies about public figures online.

Not to argue, but I believe you are referring to the "feet first" comment which I believe originated with Saddam's sons over in Iraq back during that first war. FYI. It wasn't something "creative" this individual came up with.

He could simply have said that the judge's opinion was outrageous and left it at that. There was more going on than just a difference of legal opinion.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: DJW001
The overly graphic nature of the comment suggests a seriously disturbed mind. This individual may indeed be dangerous if they have so little common sense and self control as to post their sadistic fantasies about public figures online.

Not to argue, but I believe you are referring to the "feet first" comment which I believe originated with Saddam's sons over in Iraq back during that first war. FYI. It wasn't something "creative" this individual came up with.

He could simply have said that the judge's opinion was outrageous and left it at that. There was more going on than just a difference of legal opinion.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Reason is exactly the sort of online publication a judge might read. It is possible that the potential victim read these comments himself and asked for protection. In any event, this is not so much about the right to free speech as it is about the responsibility of accepting the consequences of what you say. In the Founders' day, they still had a fuelling tradition. Impuning the honor of a judge with "harmless venting" in a public place could get you killed.

Maybe I'm just off base...but if those comments are "threats", real threats against individuals that have a real likelihood of becoming a reality...ATS is a treasure trove for DOJ data mining. And I would say that at least a large percentage of us have committed this "crime". But as vicious as these comments may have been, I still don't perceive them as a threat.

For example...saying "Don't be an ass" isn't the same as saying "You are an ass". (example only)

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: DJW001
The overly graphic nature of the comment suggests a seriously disturbed mind. This individual may indeed be dangerous if they have so little common sense and self control as to post their sadistic fantasies about public figures online.

Not to argue, but I believe you are referring to the "feet first" comment which I believe originated with Saddam's sons over in Iraq back during that first war. FYI. It wasn't something "creative" this individual came up with.

He could simply have said that the judge's opinion was outrageous and left it at that. There was more going on than just a difference of legal opinion.

Sure...he could have. But I don't think he should have to leash his comments and feelings. Freedom of speech, to me means NOT having to "watch what you say" short of not implying an actual, possible threat. Just my opinion but I bet it is also the opinion of most people here.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

And since few if any ATS members have been arrested for venting their wrath on public figures or calling for armed insurrection, it looks safe to suppose that there is no such "data mining" going on here.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

And since few if any ATS members have been arrested for venting their wrath on public figures or calling for armed insurrection, it looks safe to suppose that there is no such "data mining" going on here.

My hopes also...but I'm still shocked that something like this would be worthy of millions of dollars worth of investigation, legal actions, etc. Unless, you simply have to comment about the right person to get this level of attention.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

And since few if any ATS members have been arrested for venting their wrath on public figures or calling for armed insurrection, it looks safe to suppose that there is no such "data mining" going on here.

My hopes also...but I'm still shocked that something like this would be worthy of millions of dollars worth of investigation, legal actions, etc. Unless, you simply have to comment about the right person to get this level of attention.

As a high profile public servant, a judge is a credible assassination target. It's a pity that some hothead is wasting taxpayer money by threatening someone who needs to be protected by law. But, I guess if he needs to vent, it's worth it.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

If they can control what you learn from day one through to day zero, they can control what you think as there will be little incentive or latitude to do otherwise. Total control is their goal. You can daily see the efforts to press you toward the desired goals. Such goals are not all bad. From a certain perspective, from an alien view, for example, they could be seen as a final awakening of the human being, away from subtle, natural instincts.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

So you have conducted a thorough investigation and know for a fact whether more comments like that were issued by this person ?