The unaffordable higher minimum wage fallacy

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Edumakated

i agree with you on how the system is working.

Do you agree with the system?

the system is working fine for me. I understand the game and thus have learned how to compete and not cry about how life isn't fair. I don't worry about how much someone else is making. I only worry about me and my family and doing what we can to ensure we are taken care of by my own efforts.

a reply to: Edumakated

Ahhh ok. Your position is clear now I just wanted to clarify.

I' believe in caring about the community and ethics.

So we have fundamentally different perspectives.

a reply to: Edumakated

I am staunchly against raising the minimum wage.

I can't wrap my mind around this way of thinking. I will try to keep this concise.

1. Minimum wage jobs are not just for high school students. Not anymore. There are plenty of degree holding adults working in fast food because they cannot get a job in their field. Very often, they are working more than one low paying job, just to get dinner on the table.

And if these jobs ARE just for "kids", let's close the doors until school lets out. No Big macs for lunch, no getting gas on your lunch break, no stopping to get coffee in the morning.

2. It is not possible to afford even a one bedroom apartment, in any of the fifty states, without assistance, on minimum wage.

3. These jobs are important to our everyday lives, and to look down upon people working these jobs, or to say that they don't deserve a living wage, is not okay.

If it weren't for minimum and low wage workers.....

Who would:

Take out the trash?
Wash the dishes?
Authorize the gas pumps?
Stock the shelves?
Wait on you in restaurants they cannot themselves afford to eat at?
Deliver the pizza you are too lazy to go get?
Take your phone order for the pizza?
Clean up the vomit in aisle five?
Scrub the toilets?
Clean the hospital rooms?

To say that any of these hard working people do not deserve a minimum of a living wage, is inhumane, especially considering the modern convenience that you enjoy at their expense.

Do you know what the biggest hold up in getting beds open in a hospital is? House keeping. The lowest paid workers in the joint, can bring the entire operation to a grinding halt.

Think about that while you staunchly stand against raising the minimum wage to a livable one.

a reply to: Edumakated

Ferrari is a ridiculous example. It's a luxery item that has no bearing on anything but societal status. One doesn't need a Ferrari do get back and forth to work. One doesn't need a million dollar home to stay out of the weather. Even the price of a Hyundai, or Ford, or Kia has risen. Their target audience is shrinking.

The whole point of the matter is that it's getting to the point where something as simple as a loaf of bread is becoming out of reach of more and more people. It's happening on a level that's increasing exponentially. Cost of living is increasing. Wages are stagnant. Target consumers for many businesses are decreasing as purchasing power decreases. Instead of taking a hit in the overall profit, or the CEO taking a decrease in pay, they cut jobs and hours. They stop giving pay increases. It's a death spiral.

It's not that it can't be afforded, its that raising minimum wages across the board would in turn raise the prices of everything else in the world. You are not meant to make a living from fast food jobs, grocery store jobs, and other menial jobs. If you want better for yourself, go to school and/or learn a trade so you don't have to settle for peanuts. It is really that simple. All these scrubs and socialists calling for higher wages for crappy jobs are people who have settled for mediocrity. The only ones who say no one needs millions/ billions of dollars are the people that are incapable of making that kind of money. I realize that money isn't everything, but in this society, the more you have, the easier life is for you and yours. I would rather have more than is needed, than not have enough and be struggling.

a reply to: onequestion

Small business vs corporate. Its simple....a corporation has more flexibility due to revenue volume. Small businesses do not

Even "bargain" or "budget" items are becoming expensive to people these days.

Just a gallon of milk to me is pretty darn expensive. Even the "basics" have gone up in price, as wages haven't risen to keep up.

So if prices go up, and wages don't ... that money must be going somewhere....

originally posted by: 8fl0z
It's not that it can't be afforded, its that raising minimum wages across the board would in turn raise the prices of everything else in the world. You are not meant to make a living from fast food jobs, grocery store jobs, and other menial jobs. If you want better for yourself, go to school and/or learn a trade so you don't have to settle for peanuts. It is really that simple. All these scrubs and socialists calling for higher wages for crappy jobs are people who have settled for mediocrity. The only ones who say no one needs millions/ billions of dollars are the people that are incapable of making that kind of money. I realize that money isn't everything, but in this society, the more you have, the easier life is for you and yours. I would rather have more than is needed, than not have enough and be struggling.

I believe there is around 318 million people in the Unted States. This is a rough guestimate, but I'm guessing that there are around 250 million adults. Probably less than that are working adults. Please show me where, or name the employer, where there are mid to high paying jobs for 250+- million people?

I'm sorry, but we all can't be computer programmers or doctors. And for you to ridicule, by calling scrubs, people who work what you see as a crap job, doesn't speak very well for you as a human.

But who cares... right? It's not you or your own.

originally posted by: EternalSolace

originally posted by: 8fl0z
It's not that it can't be afforded, its that raising minimum wages across the board would in turn raise the prices of everything else in the world. You are not meant to make a living from fast food jobs, grocery store jobs, and other menial jobs. If you want better for yourself, go to school and/or learn a trade so you don't have to settle for peanuts. It is really that simple. All these scrubs and socialists calling for higher wages for crappy jobs are people who have settled for mediocrity. The only ones who say no one needs millions/ billions of dollars are the people that are incapable of making that kind of money. I realize that money isn't everything, but in this society, the more you have, the easier life is for you and yours. I would rather have more than is needed, than not have enough and be struggling.

I believe there is around 318 million people in the Unted States. This is a rough guestimate, but I'm guessing that there are around 250 million adults. Probably less than that are working adults. Please show me where, or name the employer, where there are mid to high paying jobs for 250+- million people?

I'm sorry, but we all can't be computer programmers or doctors. And for you to ridicule, by calling scrubs, people who work what you see as a crap job, doesn't speak very well for you as a human.

But who cares... right? It's not you or your own.

The poor in America live better than 99% of the rest of the world.

a reply to: onequestion

Why are you making the increased minimum wage issue about the CEOs and corporate shareholders? How about the middle and upper middle class and the impact of minimum wage increases on us?

If someone at an entry level position sees their wages increased 50% by mandate of law, the only thing that does is compress them closer to the current middle class levels. Folks currently making $60,000 a year WILL NOT see their compensation increase to $90,000, but there will be a much greater demand on goods and services which will see prices go up around them. In effect, by elevating the pay of the entry-level class you're reducing the status and purchasing power of the middle class.

originally posted by: Edumakated

The poor in America live better than 99% of the rest of the world.

I'm sure it's their fault they're poor too.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: onequestion

Small business vs corporate. Its simple....a corporation has more flexibility due to revenue volume. Small businesses do not

It is ironic. The mom & pop stores on the margins will be driven out of business by these minimum wage laws. The larger corporations can afford to absorb the cost. Yet, these idiots proposing this legislation claim to be anti big business but their policies do nothing but strengthen big companies while hurting the little guy.

It is like how you have liberals complaining about minimum wage, but then they want to import millions of illiterate illegal aliens who depress wages for the least skilled Americans.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Edumakated

Ahhh ok. Your position is clear now I just wanted to clarify.

I' believe in caring about the community and ethics

Because being finacially successful means you don't care about the community and ethics?

Working a minimum wage job or working for a small business makes you no more or no less Nobel then anyone else.

originally posted by: EternalSolace

originally posted by: Edumakated

The poor in America live better than 99% of the rest of the world.

I'm sure it's their fault they're poor too.

Who else's fault would it be? The beauty of America is you don't have to stay poor. If you work hard, get an education, don't have kids out of wedlock, and avoid the criminal justice system the odds of you being poor or needing to work a minimum wage job are virtual ZERO.

originally posted by: Edumakated
CEOs make a lot of money because they are running large global organizations. Very few people are qualified to get to that position and the incomes reflect that scarcity.

Lol, that's what they WANT YOU TO BELIEVE.

They aren't geniuses, they PAY people to do their hard work. The only near certain qualification is being a psychopath or at least a greedy bastard. Of course, I'm generalizing and surely some CEO's aren't like that but I'm almost certain that I'm right.

a reply to: Edumakated

but, drop the social welfare programs and I have the feeling the market segmentation would implode for many companies,
if the companies implodes, so does their stock values.
so well could it be possible that by protecting the stock values from the small damage that a minimum wage hike would inflict, they are opening up the path to a much more disasterous outcome?

a reply to: Edumakated

Well I'm surely happy life went well for you and of course like everyone with your mentality, it's ALL YOU. Nobody ever gave you help, it was all you alone that made it and everybody else are just stupid for not having the same VALUES that you had along the way.

We've heard that one before but it's not going to make it change my mind. The system sucks, we could, can and WILL do better when people work together for a more just society instead of thinking only about their selfish little selves and how THEY made it.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: onequestion

Why are you making the increased minimum wage issue about the CEOs and corporate shareholders? How about the middle and upper middle class and the impact of minimum wage increases on us?

If someone at an entry level position sees their wages increased 50% by mandate of law, the only thing that does is compress them closer to the current middle class levels. Folks currently making $60,000 a year WILL NOT see their compensation increase to $90,000, but there will be a much greater demand on goods and services which will see prices go up around them. In effect, by elevating the pay of the entry-level class you're reducing the status and purchasing power of the middle class.

Burd has a good point.

I don't make minimum wage, but if someone making it got $2 more per hour -- I'd be a little miffed and want a $2 per hour raise as well. It wouldn't happen though.

It's to bad everyone, across the board couldn't get a cost of living adjustment, but if that happened we'd be back where we started -- as prices on things would just inflate to match. You can't just tell companies to pay everyone in the company more and then not raise their prices.

Raising the minimum wage to a livable one, would greatly reduce the number of people receiving government assistance (or the amount received, depending), and boost the buying power of the poor.

Would those things NOT be a benefit to the economy?

originally posted by: theMediator

originally posted by: Edumakated
CEOs make a lot of money because they are running large global organizations. Very few people are qualified to get to that position and the incomes reflect that scarcity.

Lol, that's what they WANT YOU TO BELIEVE.

They aren't geniuses, they PAY people to do their hard work. The only near certain qualification is being a psychopath or at least a greedy bastard. Of course, I'm generalizing and surely some CEO's aren't like that but I'm almost certain that I'm right.

In some cases this can be true.

The CEO's basically surround themselves with very smart people who advise them what to say yes to, and what to say no to.

Just like the POTUS, CEO's have a cabinet of people that surround them, educate them, inform them, and advise them on the proper course of action.

Besides, people who make over 10 million a year don't even live in the same reality as a person making 30k a year. The world isn't the same for them.

It gets lonely I hear at the top of the dog-pile. Dunno why they want to horde the wealth if things like love, family, honesty, aren't around at all. You always hear about how miserable wealthy people can be -- yet they cling to their wealth. Maybe it's like a drug or addiction or something, or like Pokemon...they've gotta catch ALL the wealths.