Aliens exist: Here is the proof

originally posted by: jidnum
Our ego tells us we are the only intelligent life form in the universe. Our egos are also the reason why we will never accept the fact that their are other life forms out there. There is. I've witnessed it. Whether you want to believe me or not is not my problem. They are also way more intelligent than us and won't even bother with us.

As of recent "Way more intelligent" than us has become a saying too frequently used. How do we measure our intelligence against there's if there do not exhibit it to us? If you don't know what a primate is, it may do something such as peel a banana and you're stupefied as to how it did this. However you, you currently just tear them. Essentially they aren't way ahead of you but have just learnt how to just do things a bit more.

If you have noticed, collectively as a nation we are pretty advanced, we have the ideas, just not the full know how. We could be just 1 equation away from basically evolving to what could be the greatest nation. You can look to artificial intelligence to get a better perspective, soon we should be able to build a machine that is smarter than ourselves and then it builds another that is smarter than it until we have essentially created a "God". We aren't far behind.

Keep in mind intelligence is measured merely by our capacity to understand.

originally posted by: 321Go
Archea did indeed live everywhere on this planet, and the evidence that they came from somewhere else can be compelling, depending on your interpretation of the data. However, archea don't fly spaceships or abduct people or draw shapes in corn. The jump from organelles to beings is infinitely large and takes billions of years of development. Yes, it could have happened elsewhere too, and I hope it has, but the chances of it happening in a near-identical or even remotely close way to ours is almost impossible.

Do you have any idea how many suitable planets (stars) are far older than Sol? Close by...is Tau Ceti...12 ly has 2 planets in the habitable zone...is 5.8 billion years...that's a billion years older than Sol/Earth.

Your estimation of the probability, obviously based on the "no other life" notion, doesn't really work well, and, is ultimately self-defeating. Current views are that life is ubiquitous, like planets.

One simply can't make a distinction between one "kind" of life and another, because there is no distinction. Thus the probability computation fails with this inappropriate view (data) of "no other life". Leaving the only other probability; life is ubiquitous.

If you see a star, it has planets in the habitable zone, one or more of those planets has life. You can think of this any way you want; fact or prediction.

originally posted by: UniFinity
Universe is a big place and if we exists on earth why would I think that this did not occur anywhere else in some form?

There are singular and unique things in the universe, and without solid evidence that life "developed" or "occurred" someplace else, there's no particular reason to assume that it did. If we had the faintest clue about how life started on Earth, it would be a big help. But we don't. "Put a bunch of non-living organic chemicals in water, flash with lightning and shake for a couple billion years until they self-organize into a living thing" is not a guaranteed recipe.

originally posted by: Xeven
a reply to: Emerys
I personally believe there is other life out there BUT and it's a BIG but. Of 8.7 million species on Earth, only ONE is know to have become intelligent enough to reach out to other ET species and that is a reach.

This statement might not be true. There were a lot of other hominid species alive when we were. We are the last remaining, however, we might not have been the most intelligent. Take the Baskops for example, they may have been much more intelligent than us. I have a feeling our species is the cause of the extinction of these other hominids, so sad we just cant live alongside anything..

discovermagazine.com...

originally posted by: Legman

originally posted by: WhateverYouSay
Polls suggest 1 in 3 Americans believe aliens have visited earth. What's with 4 out of 5 ATSers believing they haven't.

I'm not saying it's a conspiracy. BUT IT'S A CONSPIRACY! !

Probably means you should be proud to be a part of an Internet community that obviously has a higher collected intelligence than the average American.

Means that the good people here parse the fallacys, lies, and hogwash from the real and possible.... Just for you.

The evidence is literally overwhelming. What you call parsing fallacies is often ironically a massive fallacy - appeal to authority of its 'ridiculousness' with a good bit of shifting the goalposts. How much expert testimony is needed? If something is ultimately not proven to be a hoax your lot just assumes it is anyways because it's essentially impossible to prove it as being real short of them landing on your lawn (see shifting goalposts). Furthermore, you guys like to tout Occam's Razor when it's quite obvious that suggesting all these people, no matter how qualified to provide evidence and no matter how detailed the experience, must be wrong is not the most parsimonious explanation.

I agree with your methodology as well as your metrics. If a civilization was just 100,000 years ahead of us they could be VERY mobile within their local group of solar systems. People...Well, scientists are always shooting FTL travel down in the name of Einstein and relativity but we are literally just getting started. Who really knows what is possible? Our narrow view could be a symptom of our nascence. I believe there are civilizations way out there at the edge of the observable universe and possibly much closer. I also believe that the universe is huge and spread-out SO THAT WE WILL YEARN TO TRAVEL. One thing humans are great at is exploration. We see this expansive cosmos and our hearts literally cry out to travel towards what we see...

a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

And mariners once thought no one could POSSIBLY travel faster than the standard 12 knots of a 16th century sailing vessel.

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance
Your argument supports there being a high likelihood that aliens exist, but in no way does it constitute "proof".

And this is good isn't it? I never understood those who believe in the likelyhood of organisms to exist elsewhere in the universe and yet don't consider it likely any of the cases - mostly from distant past to be such visitors. Could be more incredible to think of advanced civ able to reach this planet but some people like to exclude that by all means, that baffles me.

originally posted by: Emerys

originally posted by: Xeven
a reply to: Emerys
I personally believe there is other life out there BUT and it's a BIG but. Of 8.7 million species on Earth, only ONE is know to have become intelligent enough to reach out to other ET species and that is a reach.

This statement might not be true. There were a lot of other hominid species alive when we were. We are the last remaining, however, we might not have been the most intelligent. Take the Baskops for example, they may have been much more intelligent than us. I have a feeling our species is the cause of the extinction of these other hominids, so sad we just cant live alongside anything..

discovermagazine.com...

I agree with this. I wouldn't be surprised if there were hyper-intelligent species before hominids, too. I've often joked with family that there were dinosaur species that thought they were the center of the universe, created bamboo buildings, etc. And maybe their extinctions were used as a massive reset to cleanse the world of their similarly destructive civilizations.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Personally, I think they should say "life or technology as we know it".

I would say "reality as we know it". Think about it. If there are "interdimensional" beings or beings with advanced technology that all our known science can't detect, we are really talking about our concept of reality. If science can't detect it or measure it or define it then it really doesn't conform to our understanding of reality. so can we really have evidence of something that is not defined or known? There is definitely evidence of something with all this I suppose. Could it be evidence of something purely psychological? Is there anyone qualified to answer that? I have not seen anything to eliminate that possibility nor any reason to think that is all there is to it. Certainly not something physically"real" as we know it.

Great point! If we could prove there are things such as parallel universes or parallel dimensions, that would change everything. And once again, we wouldn't even know how to begin to look for them, either.

On the other hand, would it really be good for us to get in contact with them? I've thought of Angels, jinn, demons, youkai, ghosts, etc as being completely possible if they were simply creatures from other dimensions. But that would open up a completely different can of worms. Like is "Heaven" really just an advanced "positive" dimension? And is "Hell" really a "prison dimension" that is used to contain every galaxy's "bad guys"?

I actually lean towards this as being my explanation of hominid life on Earth. That the being I call God is the creator of these dimensions, like a programmer who created multiple virtual realities. But like I said, that opens up another can of worms.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Emerys

originally posted by: Xeven
a reply to: Emerys
I personally believe there is other life out there BUT and it's a BIG but. Of 8.7 million species on Earth, only ONE is know to have become intelligent enough to reach out to other ET species and that is a reach.

This statement might not be true. There were a lot of other hominid species alive when we were. We are the last remaining, however, we might not have been the most intelligent. Take the Baskops for example, they may have been much more intelligent than us. I have a feeling our species is the cause of the extinction of these other hominids, so sad we just cant live alongside anything..

discovermagazine.com...

I agree with this. I wouldn't be surprised if there were hyper-intelligent species before hominids, too. I've often joked with family that there were dinosaur species that thought they were the center of the universe, created bamboo buildings, etc. And maybe their extinctions were used as a massive reset to cleanse the world of their similarly destructive civilizations.

But it would be no surprise, would it? From time to time, I like to think of us as 'perfected genetic mutations' of a past civilization that had reset themselves. But other than that you can see our ancestors were smart in their time and the pyramids tend to prove this, they are an absolute work of art followed by the mayans. Still of our kind but simply says that intelligence isn't something new. I believe we have possibly degenerated from a time where people were more inquisitive. Some of us are and then the rest of us don't give a damn, if you tell us an apple is an apple we believe it 100% of the time with a few others.

The interesting thing is evolution came from the Big Bang. So is evolution all over the Universe too? I agree with one of the earlier posts the OP did not present proof that aliens exist. However well presented...Imagine human type beings on a planet with no corruption? Or maybe a different solar system that naturally encouraged space travel? Or a species with a different brain that maybe thinks like one of the 80 million species on our planet? Or maybe with different senses?

The possibilities are endless of what could be out there, so really a very bizarre human type race of beings could be visiting us, because the rate of evolution probably varies from planet to planet. What we did in 200 years, could be 5 minutes on another planet. In addition there could be a very identical earth with similar life, similar rate of evolution, and homo sapiens that we might not be able to detect for another 5, 10, 20, 100 years.

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: 321Go
Archea did indeed live everywhere on this planet, and the evidence that they came from somewhere else can be compelling, depending on your interpretation of the data. However, archea don't fly spaceships or abduct people or draw shapes in corn. The jump from organelles to beings is infinitely large and takes billions of years of development. Yes, it could have happened elsewhere too, and I hope it has, but the chances of it happening in a near-identical or even remotely close way to ours is almost impossible.

Do you have any idea how many suitable planets (stars) are far older than Sol? Close by...is Tau Ceti...12 ly has 2 planets in the habitable zone...is 5.8 billion years...that's a billion years older than Sol/Earth.

Your estimation of the probability, obviously based on the "no other life" notion, doesn't really work well, and, is ultimately self-defeating. Current views are that life is ubiquitous, like planets.

One simply can't make a distinction between one "kind" of life and another, because there is no distinction. Thus the probability computation fails with this inappropriate view (data) of "no other life". Leaving the only other probability; life is ubiquitous.

If you see a star, it has planets in the habitable zone, one or more of those planets has life. You can think of this any way you want; fact or prediction.

I agree totally – life outside our system is probably rife in the right conditions. I have no problem with that at all. However, the definition of 'life' is what the question is here. What I'm saying is, life in microbial form is almost certainly widespread. Life in larger creatures inordinately less so. Life in an advanced social form less still. Life that has the intelligence, will and ability to come see us is almost zero.

Life exists, but that doesn't automatically mean it drives spaceships.

a reply to: 321Go

Life exists, but that doesn't automatically mean it drives spaceships.

Agreed - but then WHO or WHAT then is driving all those ships in our skies? Are they ALL just Black Ops planes? And the rest, SwampGas-Venus-Birdmoths-Optical-Illusions?

Perhaps some - but ALL?

Maybe it is US from the Future (or Past) - if the technical/physical law hurdles can ever be overcome.

Angels?

Our imagination?

So many similar-looking Alien critters, so many similar-looking ships...

How do we explain it?

My explanation is that there aren't any. None. Not one single 'alien' encounter, ever.

The 'U' in UFO is exactly that; unidentified.

originally posted by: Outrageo
a reply to: 321Go

Life exists, but that doesn't automatically mean it drives spaceships.

Agreed - but then WHO or WHAT then is driving all those ships in our skies? Are they ALL just Black Ops planes? And the rest, SwampGas-Venus-Birdmoths-Optical-Illusions?

Perhaps some - but ALL?

Maybe it is US from the Future (or Past) - if the technical/physical law hurdles can ever be overcome.

Angels?

Our imagination?

So many similar-looking Alien critters, so many similar-looking ships...

How do we explain it?

Media... and impressionable people.

Next question?

originally posted by: Outrageo
a reply to: 321Go

Life exists, but that doesn't automatically mean it drives spaceships.

Agreed - but then WHO or WHAT then is driving all those ships in our skies? Are they ALL just Black Ops planes? And the rest, SwampGas-Venus-Birdmoths-Optical-Illusions?

Perhaps some - but ALL?

Maybe it is US from the Future (or Past) - if the technical/physical law hurdles can ever be overcome.

Angels?

Our imagination?

So many similar-looking Alien critters, so many similar-looking ships...

How do we explain it?

The incredible and boundless imagination of the human mind. That is how I explain beliefs without hard evidence and non-repeatable experiences.

originally posted by: SuspiciousTom

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Emerys

originally posted by: Xeven
a reply to: Emerys
I personally believe there is other life out there BUT and it's a BIG but. Of 8.7 million species on Earth, only ONE is know to have become intelligent enough to reach out to other ET species and that is a reach.

This statement might not be true. There were a lot of other hominid species alive when we were. We are the last remaining, however, we might not have been the most intelligent. Take the Baskops for example, they may have been much more intelligent than us. I have a feeling our species is the cause of the extinction of these other hominids, so sad we just cant live alongside anything..

discovermagazine.com...

I agree with this. I wouldn't be surprised if there were hyper-intelligent species before hominids, too. I've often joked with family that there were dinosaur species that thought they were the center of the universe, created bamboo buildings, etc. And maybe their extinctions were used as a massive reset to cleanse the world of their similarly destructive civilizations.

But it would be no surprise, would it? From time to time, I like to think of us as 'perfected genetic mutations' of a past civilization that had reset themselves. But other than that you can see our ancestors were smart in their time and the pyramids tend to prove this, they are an absolute work of art followed by the mayans. Still of our kind but simply says that intelligence isn't something new. I believe we have possibly degenerated from a time where people were more inquisitive. Some of us are and then the rest of us don't give a damn, if you tell us an apple is an apple we believe it 100% of the time with a few others.

I agree. I also think some of the reasons we haven't found nearly as much "proof" of our former glory are:

1. We don't account for civilizations that may have used natural materials or biodegradable materials. We assume their technology would be as polluting as ours. I actually think our current technology will drift more towards biodegradable materials, which would prevent future civilizations from understanding our technology too (since the important components would dissolve away).

2. Pillaging. New groups almost always pillage from the sites of previous groups. Sometimes it's from greed like grave robbers. Other times it's from necessity ("Oh no! We need more gravel! Hey, there's a dilapidated pillar over there...")

3. We simple don't know what we're looking at. If we went back in time 500 years & gave someone a blu-ray disc, they wouldn't even know where to begin with identifying it. If we went 500 years in the future & gave them the same blu-ray disc, most people still wouldn't know what it was. Yet we assume we'd understand other forms of technology if we encountered them.

For what it's worth, I think many common interpretations for past civilizations are wrong. If people 2,000 years from now came across most things from our cultures, they'd think we worshiped Spider-Man, that our pop stars were our political or religious leaders, etc. Just imagine future humans discovering a partially petrified wax museum, some of our cereal boxes, or some of our movie posters! lol

99.99999999999999% of all logic says our alien visitors will look more like




than the grey aliens you guys are all suckers for...


lol..

All of you abductees or witnesses..... and not one REAL cell phone image. Robots will likely visit us first and more than likely annihilate us. Occams Razor rules people.

originally posted by: 321Go
My explanation is that there aren't any. None. Not one single 'alien' encounter, ever.

The 'U' in UFO is exactly that; unidentified.

That's not an explanation, that's merely an opinion, and apparently an uninformed one.