Ukraine stepping up attacks on separatists BECAUSE voting to remove sanctions happening soon.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Nowornevertill

It's gonna take the US a long time to catch up to Russia's body count. What was it? 20 million Russians under Stalin alone?

The USA is doing its best to catch up. After taking out a few million yellow faces it's turned to the brown faces now and the tally is ratcheting up. Also they seem to be stampeeding on the home bound straight with the towel head tally mounting fast

European countries should work with Russia and Ukraine to solve this mess, we need to get the truth out, so why not act like adults and ehm leaders finally, stop violence for a moment and put your best effort to expose the real truth, then we can move on from there.
Ppl should also grow bit, stop the blame game already, its only work to create rivalry and more fire for that sort of things, ppl sure do not act like they do not want to see another world war, because its too late when the shyt hits the fan..

a reply to: Greathouse

The us meddled and overthrew the ukranian government and Russia responded. Russia does t benefit from this war , the us does. Its pretty simple to see who is doing what.

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

That's ridiculous Russia benefited greatly from these actions. They seized the Crimea peninsula, along with all the established and newfound gas and oil fields . Putin is making out like a ( pardon the pun ) gangster .

a reply to: Greathouse

Lol so Russia now has the Crimean peninsula, except it already had the Crimean peninsula.... and they got Ukraine natural resources, except Russia has plenty of its own resources and Ukraine doesn't even have enough to sustain itself for half a year(was their llan to kill everyone in Ukraine so they could get a little oil?).. so Russia lost a bunch of money and went into recession for assets they already has and resources they didn't need. Brilliant stuff.

a reply to: Greathouse

Don't forget that the instability also means Ukraine won't be joining NATO for a long time. Not to mention with their economy crippled Ukraine won't be making any trade agreements with the EU anytime soon.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Well the us has killed over 20 million since ww2 and the 20 million that died in Russia mostly died as a result of Germany.... and Germany was being financed by western interests. Sooo

originally posted by: Nowornevertill
There is going to be a voting within Europe to resume normal trade relationship with Russia, all parties want it, Germany, France even UK.

Do you have a source for this? Europe and the constituent nation states wants an end to sanctions, but Russia needs to stop interferring in Ukraine and defuse the situation. The annexation of Crimea is a bit of blockage.

europa.eu...

Otherwise, the OP is a bit (ahem) pro Russian in the narrative, and reflcets a preemptive "blame game" that seems to be ramping up from the Russian (controlled) media. 'nuff said.

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

Russia did not own The Crimea peninsula . The former government of Russia ( USSR)gave it away 1954. It was recognized by Russia again when they guaranteed boundaries in the Budapest memorandum .

It's obvious to anyone that looks Putin went to war for oil .

When Russia seized Crimea in March, it acquired not just the Crimean landmass but also a maritime zone more than three times its size with the rights to underwater resources potentially worth trillions of dollars.

Russia portrayed the takeover as reclamation of its rightful territory, drawing no attention to the oil and gas rush that had recently been heating up in the Black Sea. But the move also extended Russia’s maritime boundaries, quietly giving Russia dominion over vast oil and gas reserves while dealing a crippling blow to Ukraine’s hopes for energy independence.

Russia did so under an international accord that gives nations sovereignty over areas up to 230 miles from their shorelines. It had tried, unsuccessfully, to gain access to energy resources in the same territory in a pact with Ukraine less than two years earlier.

“It’s a big deal,” said Carol R. Saivetz, a Eurasian expert in the Security Studies Program of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. “It deprives Ukraine of the possibility of developing these resources and gives them to Russia. It makes Ukraine more vulnerable to Russian pressure.”

Gilles Lericolais, the director of European and international affairs at France’s state oceanographic group, called Russia’s annexation of Crimea “so obvious” as a play for offshore riches.

source

Then after he seized most of the resources for the Ukraine. In true gangster fashion he sent them a bill for gas . Lol

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

It's true that 20 million Soviet soldiers and civilians died in WWII. In 1989 Roy Medvedev published a paper stating that Stalin was responsible for 20 million non-wartime deaths. And when one looks at other researchers of the topic Medvedev's number is conservative. Most place the actual number somewhere between 20 and 60 million non-wartime deaths directly attributable to Stalin.

a reply to: Greathouse

Russia was leasing the Crimean peninsula, if not for the us they still would have been. Giving it up to the eu was not an option so they annexed it. And what oil?! Ukraine barely has enough oil for itself, actually it has less oil than it needs.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Cool story. Anyway keep bringing up Stalin when you can't find anything relevant to say. Its gross.

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Greathouse

Russia was leasing the Crimean peninsula, if not for the us they still would have been. Giving it up to the eu was not an option so they annexed it. And what oil?! Ukraine barely has enough oil for itself, actually it has less oil than it needs.

That is an incorrect statement .

Russia was leasing bases from the Ukraine in the Crimea peninsula .

The Crimea Peninsula was given to the Ukraine in 1954 .

The transfer of Crimea in 1954 was an administrative action of the Supreme Soviet which transferred the government of the Crimean peninsula from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic to the Ukrainian SSR.

source


As for your stance on oil . Read the previous link there are new found gas/oil fields not yet tapped Estimated in the trillions of dollars .

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
somewhere between 20 and 60 million non-wartime deaths directly attributable to Stalin.

Yes, Stalin ran a particularly vile dictatorship. As this thread is about Russia and Ukraine, it is worthwhile to point out that millions of Ukrainians were killed by Soviet-engineered famines, forced deportations (e.g. to de-populate Crimea) and other atrocities. No wonder the Ukrainians distrust the increasingly autocratic Russians - many of whom revere Stalin.

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
Russia was leasing the Crimean peninsula, if not for the us they still would have been. Giving it up to the eu was not an option so they annexed it. And what oil?! Ukraine barely has enough oil for itself, actually it has less oil than it needs.

Not sure where you are getting your facts from, but... Russia was leasing naval bases on Crimea territory, owned by Ukraine. It was not leasing the peninsular. Is this what they are teaching you in school?

a reply to: Greathouse

Yeah but they had what they needed there either way, a presence in the black sea. You can pretend Russia for some reason need more oil reserves all you like.

a reply to: paraphi

Yea no #. thanks for reinforcing my statement. Russia had what they needed in Crimea, their assets were threatened so they reacted.

a reply to: paraphi

Is it also worthwhile to point out that many Ukrainians were fighting on the side of the Nazis then too?

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Greathouse

Yeah but they had what they needed there either way, a presence in the black sea. You can pretend Russia for some reason need more oil reserves all you like.

Yes of course how could I be so wrong. No country ever wanted more oil , how foolish of me to even make such an outlandish statement.

a reply to: Greathouse

It is very outlandish since Russia is one of the most oil rich countries. You don't attack someone for the promise of something you don't even need in the first place. Especially when it causes you instability and hardship.