If gender is in the mind and not the body, what do you think of species dysphoria?

a reply to: NavyDoc

Rudeness is a matter of perception.

Clearly you are dodging the simple question, Do you support transgender people serving in the US military?

Based on your past posts, I am going to assume that you do not support transgender service members. You claim to be a high ranking officer in the US Navy. Your input is important for the sake of this discussion.

a reply to: ProfessorChaos

But do you have Proof? or is this your opinion?

you don't think maybe hormone levels can affect things? or Genes? or anything else?

if just your opinion, you have every right towards it, but saying people have "Mental Conditions" is a bit ignorant

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: ProfessorChaos

But do you have Proof? or is this your opinion?

you don't think maybe hormone levels can affect things? or Genes? or anything else?

if just your opinion, you have every right towards it, but saying people have "Mental Conditions" is a bit ignorant

There's nothing ignorant in stating that someone who rejects physical reality has a mental condition. I'll refer you back to my question regarding schizophrenics. They see the world, and hear things that are not there. Should we alter our perception to suit theirs? That is exactly what is being asked of us with regard to people who refuse to acknowledge their own birth gender. We are being asked to alter our perception in order to fall into line with theirs.

If I envision myself as being born as a one-handed man, yet somehow, nature screwed up and gave me two hands, and I have one removed. Is it a reality that I was actually born a one-handed man?

***EDIT TO ADD***

If someone chooses to have a gender reassignment surgery, they are obviously free to do so. However, insisting to the world that you are a different sex or species just because you think you are, or because you had something lopped off or added, is delusional, and then to insist that they treat you as such is even more so.

a reply to: ProfessorChaos


okay so it's just your opinion,

comparing schizophrenics with Transgender people is Ignorant.. all people are asking for is Equal treatment, because Transgender or Cisgender we are still Humans and deserve equal treatment and protection

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NavyDoc
The law should give special consideration to no citizen above another citizen, regardless of perceived past abuses it excuses.

So, you would abolish the Disability Act.

So you like the cotrage industry of lawyers who wander around suing for rails 1" out of regulations? Shutting down mom and pop stores if they can't afford to remodel their bathrooms?

OK, got my answer.

From a military doctor.

You would abolish the disability act.

Didn't say that. You were just trying to build another stupid strawman.


Okay, 2 can play--I got my answer, you want lawyers to go around destroying mom and pop stores on technical violations. Glad you love lawyers so much.

If a military vet with his legs blown off takes his family to dinner, then can't get his wheelchair in the bathroom --- what do you think my answer is going to be?

Just like that lone mechanic in a one horse town is going to happily fix the broken down car of a black family that's stranded. Mom/Pop are going to make sure out of the goodness of their heart (and pocketbook) that that disabled military vet can get his wheelchair into the bathroom.

NOT!

a reply to: jrod

I do not understand what the issue is with any specific "group" serving in the military. According to the NY Times...

www.nytimes.com...

...less than 0.5% of Americans ever serve in the military!

Why don't you ask me who should serve, because I would be happy to comply - EVERY DAMN AMERICAN should serve, that's who. And maybe then if Americans were all forced to get off their rotten lazy asses and do their damned duty to the country that coddles them, why THEN maybe they would not only understand WTF is going on, but might actually learn what in life is really worth living for, period, end of story!

Since this thread started, I have done more research and reading.

I have discovered that the LGBT issue has become Big Business. People have wondered on this thread whether there is an agenda. I am going to say 'yes'. Perhaps not at first, but like every other cause celebre, the activists discover that grant money becomes available and then you have foundations popping up to donate and support other non-profits and groups. (Non-profit is just another avenue to syphon money for administrators and expenses. If there's anything left over, the 'cause' might get some of it.)

The LGBT bunch have discovered this. Their legal and PR machine is on full throttle and they are milking it for everything it is worth. And, as usual, the intellectually blind class can't (or won't) see it.

About transgenders...I have discovered that most of this money is spent on their issues of depression, anxiety, substance abuse, and, of course, the medical problems involved in the physical attempt to transform their body.

While I think we should continue to help with the mental and emotional problems they face, I think more of the money should go to the study of the etiology of their disorder. Some studies have been done, but most of them are controversial and some are flawed in their methods. Let's find out what is happening to these individuals and stop trying to tip toe around as if it is perfectly normal to think you are a man in a woman's body, or a woman in a man's body, or a wolf in a human body, or a dragon who is missing his wings.

originally posted by: queenofswords
Their legal and PR machine is on full throttle and they are milking it for everything it is worth. And, as usual, the intellectually blind class can't (or won't) see it.

Isn't that interesting.

Imagine, if people just allowed Equality without LGBT having to fight for it.

Ironic.

originally posted by: queenofswords

While I think we should continue to help with the mental and emotional problems they face, I think more of the money should go to the study of the etiology of their disorder. Some studies have been done, but most of them are controversial and some are flawed in their methods. Let's find out what is happening to these individuals and stop trying to tip toe around as if it is perfectly normal to think you are a man in a woman's body, or a woman in a man's body, or a wolf in a human body, or a dragon who is missing his wings.

Instead of helping those with Cancer live a fulfilling life - - - better to say "Screw You" - - - research is more important to save others in the next generation - - - if we find the cause. If not, it will be the next generation, or the generation after that.

(NO! I am not calling Trans issues a disease - - but the scenario still fits)

a reply to: Annee

Annee, you do like to twist and turn everything upside down. I said plain as day that we should continue to help with their emotional and mental problems while MANAGING the funds available to where more of the money is actually going to research the etiology of the issue.

Using your technique: Are you saying future generations don't matter?!

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: queenofswords
Their legal and PR machine is on full throttle and they are milking it for everything it is worth. And, as usual, the intellectually blind class can't (or won't) see it.

Isn't that interesting.

Imagine, if people just allowed Equality without LGBT having to fight for it.

Ironic.

If it was just about equal rights, there wouldn't be a problem. I believe we already have equal rights regardless of sexual orientation, right? However, opportunists have now jumped on the bandwagon and are pushing an agenda...and, by god! you and I and everybody else are going to conform to their way of thinking regardless of one's personal or religious beliefs or else.

Next on the agenda is pedophilia being moved from a criminal offense to a type of sexual preference. Oh yeah...there is a push/movement/agenda advocating this as we speak. When this happens, are we going to insist that they have equal rights to teach kindergarten?

a reply to: queenofswords

Do we have equal rights? what do you consider Equal? i can't get married in all States and recognized in others, in some states i can be legally discriminated against based on my sexuality, adoption laws? refused services? shall i continue?

and again, this ignorant statement about somehow saying if we get equal rights than pedophiles can too.

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: Annee

Annee, you do like to twist and turn everything upside down. I said plain as day that we should continue to help with their emotional and mental problems.

What emotional and mental problems are you referring to?

The major emotional problems for LGBT come from Inequality and abuse from intolerant people.

Or are you stating LGBT is a mental/emotional disorder?

originally posted by: queenofswords

About transgenders...I have discovered that most of this money is spent on their issues of depression, anxiety, substance abuse, and, of course, the medical problems involved in the physical attempt to transform their body.

This carefully worded sentence says a lot.

"substance abuse" - - "attempt" to transform body.

It is not an innocuous statement.

Actually, the focus has been on the emotional and mental problems that stem from others' abuse and intolerance, but they actually begin early on having psychological problems because of the stress of feeling like they are in the wrong gender. By the time they are old enough to seek help, they have double the problem.

I am not a psychiatrist. I got interested in dysphoria and began researching it as it pertains to gender, species, and body integrity identity disorder. I think gays and lesbians are in a different category than transgenders.

I feel this is a very worrisome condition and more studies should be done to determine the etiology. If the cause and subsequent remedy can be found, it would save these individuals from years of pain, heartache, and the need to mutilate their bodies and subject themselves to massive hormone therapies.

But, I do think that if you think you are a man in a woman's body or a woman in a man's body, or a wolf in a girl's body, or a cheetah in a boy's body, or a dragon whose wings are missing, you have a psychological problem. You may be able to function in most aspects of your life, even excel in some, but the dysphoria will be debilitating on some level.

Shame on others who bully or abuse this group. But, shame on society if they treat it as if it is perfectly normal and not worthy of indepth medical and neurological research.

a reply to: queenofswords

It is a precarious line that should not be crossed.

That's part of the issue about legally calling people another gender when the genetically aren't. It is like opening a gateway to crazy.

People mutilating the bodies they were given into looking like that which they want is not the same as actually being that which they want. Gender is more than skin deep, it is genetic.

Technically in the legal world people thinking themselves as all sorts of things could use the same ''but I think it so you just agree okay'' mentality of law. Humanity does not want to go there.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: queenofswords

About transgenders...I have discovered that most of this money is spent on their issues of depression, anxiety, substance abuse, and, of course, the medical problems involved in the physical attempt to transform their body.

This carefully worded sentence says a lot.

"substance abuse" - - "attempt" to transform body.

It is not an innocuous statement.

Substance abuse is prevalent among transgenders. Do some research, Annee. What word would you prefer?

I used the words "attempt to transform their body" because no amount of body mutilation, makeup, hormone injections, nips and tucks, is going to make a man a woman nor a woman a man. They may look like it, convince themselves and others, but they will never be the opposite sex from their birth sex physically.

Now, being an ATSer, I can accept that one day science may be able to help a transgender woman grow a penis or a transgender man develop a uterus and ovaries, but, for now, it is all cosmetic and painful body mutilation.

originally posted by: queenofswords
I got interested in dysphoria and began researching it as it pertains to gender, species, and body integrity identity disorder.

You've researched it? Awesome. I bet that means you understand it enough to not compare it to people thinking they are animals then, right?

originally posted by: queenofswords
But, I do think that if you think you are a man in a woman's body or a woman in a man's body, or a wolf in a girl's body, or a cheetah in a boy's body, or a dragon whose wings are missing, you have a psychological problem. You may be able to function in most aspects of your life, even excel in some, but the dysphoria will be debilitating on some level.

Oh...

Look, anybody who still thinks in those terms obviously has more research to do. You have demonstrated several times that you have no interest in the physiological evidence behind the fact that this is not a solely psychological issue. Your brain has a gender and distinctive sex traits therefore it can have a gender that your body didn't match. NONE of our brains have distinctive dragon or cheetah traits. You should know this by now.

It is an area neuroscience, psychology and psychiatry researching.

The law should not be going down a path that is contrary to the science.

There are better solutions being sought than mutilation, and it is proven that mutilation is not successful in curing the issue, as it hasn't altered the actual mind or genetics. The brain's reactions to hormones is most often the cause of the issue and if there is ever a solution it is most likely in correcting the brains reactions.

Society patting itself on the back for allowing mutilation is macabre.

Shame on others who bully or abuse this group. But, shame on society if they treat it as if it is perfectly normal and not worthy of indepth medical and neurological research.

a reply to: queenofswords

This certainly is an "interesting" subject to say the least. My experience with my lovely wife and as a father of four daughters has led me to wonder why anyone in their right mind would willfully choose to go there that was not born that way in the first place. On the other hand, having lived through 61 years dragging my "pocket pal" around with me and having to deal with all of the pains, trials and tribulations that is involved being a man, I cannot comprehend why a human born as a woman would want to cross over into this particular clusterflock of problems either. People who are unhappy with their lot in life and look to those that tout their abilities to bring happiness to them at a price, and usually a BIG price, are IMHO fools that are soon to be parted with their money and made to realize the truth in the saying that the grass is always greener..... In in the case of Obamacare, it would be OUR money of course and I would rather not pay for such frivolities. If someone out there can cite me any instances where man and his "technologies" have stepped in to make things better rather than screw them up even more then please enlighten me for I cannot see it that way.