Turkey and the E.U...

it seems as though tony blair is with turkey all the way on them joining the E.U and more so than any of the other E.U priministers. could this, letting a muslim country join the E.U, just be a way of maybe healing old wounds? Not having such a division between our beliefs and that of muslims. like the saying keep you friends close but your enemies closer...well how about make your enemies your friends. america one day were close friends with bin laden, so if the u.k and the rest of the e.u are allies with a muslim country prehaps they are hoping that muslims will see us in a different way.

I agree 100%. By allowing Turkey into the EU Europe can show the world they arent against moderate Islam. At the moment there is alot of bad blood between muslims and the west. Muslim feel they are being targeted by the west, and the west feel muslims all support terrorism. By allowing Turkey in the EU would show the Islamiic world they have no beef with Islam as a religion or Islamic countries.

I htink it is vital to include turkey as it would affect the way the whole world see's Europe.

Turkey shouldn't join. I am against it due to a, highly likely, mass immigration to the UK to live of our benfit system. There was a huge protest in Italy against the joining of Turkey, ill try and find the link for you guys

Originally posted by infinite
Italy against the joining of Turkey, ill try and find the link for you guys

BBC - Country Stance on EU Membership for Turkey

Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has said that he wants talks with Turkey to begin as soon as possible, although the Northern League - an anti-immigration, right-wing party that belongs to Mr Berlusconi's government - wants the country's membership put to a national referendum. Italy is not holding a popular vote on the constitution, and would be unlikely to hold one on Turkey.

Yes i want Turkey to join, they are a proud people, so that means their not going to take crap from the EU. Which will lead to friction and arguements....and hopefully the downfall of the un-democratic EU

Originally posted by UK Wizard
Yes i want Turkey to join, they are a proud people, so that means their not going to take crap from the EU. Which will lead to friction and arguements....and hopefully the downfall of the un-democratic EU

- Just as with the eastern European countries that joined the EU recently there will be controls put in place to ensure that there will not be a mass movement of people even if Turkey does end up joining the EU (but if that previous scare story is anything to go by that seems very unlikely).

I'm interested in your claims that the EU is "undemocratic" Wizard.

Which national powers would you be happy to cede to the EU to make up this 'democratic deficit'?

How would you 'correct' this?
(Beyond destroying the institution and negating all the good it does us......or are you now denying all that?)

You do realise that the reason for the EU's so-called 'democratic deficit' is, contrary to the ludicrous anti-EU 'euro-sceptic' myth in the UK, exactly because the national govs do not wish to pass controls out of their hands to the EU, don't you?
They have no intention giving the EU further powers backed by an independant mandate.

How would you 'correct' this?

By giving the British people a vote on whether they wish to remain members of the EU or whether they wish to leave.

Originally posted by UK Wizard
By giving the British people a vote on whether they wish to remain members of the EU or whether they wish to leave.

There should be a European Vote on Turkeys membership, plus there should be a vote on our stay in the EU.

I thought so. You'd refrom the EU by wreaking it. Except you wouldn't, they'd carry on regardless and we'd be stuck on the outside having to follow their rules with no input in forming them if we wished to sell to them.

You might read up on the story of the how and the why we joined (and why we were so desparate to join). We tried all sorts even a Euro 'trading only' club and it didn't work.

But great. Really.

Personally I'm all for an 'in or out' vote.

It'll shut the sceptic mob up for a long while.

Naturally - as has been evident by the proposed 'constitution' vote - they actually don't want an 'in or out' vote.

Cos they know they'd lose.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
You might read up on the story of the how and the why we joined (and why we were so desparate to join). We tried all sorts even a Euro 'trading only' club and it didn't work.

That was then...this is now....

It'll shut the sceptic mob up for a long while.

We'll see....

Originally posted by UK Wizard
That was then...this is now....

- Making a living in the world is not something you dismiss lightly Wizard.

Yes indeed that was then and our 'now' is one where we have spent over 30yrs getting our economy into synch with Europes......not forgeting the two decades before we joined where we were anticipating joining and manoeuvering the UK economy towards being able to join.

We'll see....

- Oh I have no doubt some will belly-ache on forever but it'll take the issue right off of the political landscape.

By rights it shouldn't be on it now anyway.

We did this one last time we had a general election.
William Hague and his tory mates tried it with their focus on 'Save the �' nonsense in the 2001 UK general election and were thrashed out of sight.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- Making a living in the world is not something you dismiss lightly Wizard.

I know, but the economy isn't the sole purpose for living

We did this one last time we had a general election.
William Hague and his tory mates tried it with their focus on 'Save the �' nonsense in the 2001 UK general election and were thrashed out of sight.

I some how doubt they lost because of that single reason....

But if we were to leave the EU we would loose alot of helpful or potentially helpful allies.

But we'd still have America.

Originally posted by shorty
But if we were to leave the EU we would loose alot of helpful or potentially helpful allies.

Don't see why

But we'd still have America.

Don't worry Bush will be gone in 4 years (a very long 4 years) and America will return to being sane.

Originally posted by UK Wizard

Don't see why

The more allies the stronger our country will eventualy become. As i see it anyway.

Originally posted by shorty
The more allies the stronger our country will eventualy become. As i see it anyway.

But why would they stop being our allies?

I guess they might not but they would be more compelled to help if we were in the EU. Otherwise they may just stay neutral in any confilct we may be involved in.

Originally posted by UK Wizard
I know, but the economy isn't the sole purpose for living

- Well of course that is true.
Nevertheless the likely drop in the standard of living is something you would have to be honest about when asking your fellow countrymen to take this step, no?

I some how doubt they lost because of that single reason....

- Well that single reason was certainly not considered sufficiently - or as sceptic would have it vitally! - important enough to give them the win, was it?

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Nevertheless the likely drop in the standard of living is something you would have to be honest about when asking your fellow countrymen to take this step, no?

I'd like to replace the word 'likely' with 'potential'.
It all depends on how we withdraw from the EU and what the EU's reaction is.

- Well that single reason was certainly not considered sufficiently - or as sceptic would have it vitally! - important enough to give them the win, was it?

Its my personal opinion that there are more euro-skeptics now than in 2001.
I also believe that a main stream party who really takes up a sensible and serious position of a national referendum on the EU will gain both euro-skeptic and euro-phile votes.

Originally posted by shorty
But if we were to leave the EU we would loose alot of helpful or potentially helpful allies.

But we'd still have America.

Thats not true,
EU fears that if any of the major three nations (UK,France and Germany) leave, the Union would fall apart.

Originally posted by infinite

Thats not true,
EU fears that if any of the major three nations (UK,France and Germany) leave, the Union would fall apart.

But then surely we would be in the smae situation. If it were to fall apart the EU wouldn't be able to help us.