Long Beach Police Officer Kills unarmed 20 year old college student

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

riots are the status quo we need to do things different if we are to learn from our mistakes.

originally posted by: diggindirt
a reply to: MoreBeer

I'm simply trying to sort out witness reports. We've yet to hear from any of the firefighters or paramedics on the scene.
The witnesses I saw interviewed stated that he had his hands over his head and was covered in blood.
I'm trying to imagine what must have been going through that cop's brain that made it misfire and make him loose all common sense and reason and freeze in fear, screaming at an unstable and bloody victim of a fall from a second story apartment.
All witness seem to agree that he was on the second story then he was on the ground without benefit of stairs. As a result of his hasty exit, he was covered in blood.
I want to see real evidence in the form of lab reports on what chemicals were coursing though the system of both men.
Only then will we know the real story.

logical? check. true? check. could make or break this case? check. bring what really happened to light? check. SO, for all the people saying COPS CAN DO NO WRONG, you should have no problem with mandatory drug tests for all officers involved in a shooting? well, i say take it a step further, and make it so ALL cops get drug tested AT LEAST once a month.

The most interesting part of this thread, to me, is the evolution of words and phrases and events. All done in the pursuit of being "right."

Using one witness and not the other. And vice versa.

Jumping out of a window has turned into fell from a window

Mushrooms has turned in to pcp.

Armchair diagnoses of both the "fall victim's" state of mind and the officer's state of mind.

Bringing up "the old west" as if it was somehow the paragon of virtue? Wyatt Earp's vendetta ride would say otherwise. And that's just one example.

Those of you espousing riots, protests, and other "actions," to you I say: put up or shut up. Same people constantly posting comments about how it's time for this or time for that, and that's all they ever do: post comments trying to sound like internet warriors. Laughable.

this keeps happening over and over, get use to it or do something about it

a reply to: game over man

Wait until Muslim cop kills someone. Then it will be ww3 according to most posts on ATS

originally posted by: diggindirt

There were firefighters and paramedics standing by---why not approach this as a medical emergency?

You've obviously only read the one source.

Medical personnel were trying to help the guy but they apparently couldn't get him to sit still. He was apparently told many times "calm down so they can help you" but he was running around or being violent or whatever the hell behavior escalated the whole incident.

Other sources go into more detail and one has the 911 transcripts from the incident. Google it. The 911 transcripts show that the person who called requested an ambulance and then said "we're going to need the police, too" and said that he was being violent.

The facts don't support the opinion that "he was just injured and needed some help but the cop shot him for no reason."

a reply to: Answer
Could you post your links for those sources please?
Could you also post your source for the last quote in your post?
If make these claims you really should post links for your claims as to added info.
Just for your information, there is a great deal of difference in, as you say, "running around" or "being violent" so which was it? When did "running around" become a capital offense?

Please tell me this: If this were your son would you feel that the cop had done everything possible to get this young man the help he needed? Or would you be okay with burying your son because he was "running around" covered in blood after having fallen several feet from a second floor?
What made the cop so fearful? What made him imagine that this young man could do him bodily harm? He didn't even have a water hose nozzle. articles.latimes.com...

originally posted by: LoverBoy
a reply to: diggindirt
Because even in a medical emergency, Fire and EMS have to wait for Police to clear the scene and make the scene safe before going in. This is because kids or adults high on drugs and aggressive do pose a much higher threat than other situations. Fire and EMS are not armed. Police are, therefore once the scene is secure, medical will come in.

As far as hearing what the fire and ems personnel say about this. The cop tried non lethal force first and still had the person coming at him in an aggressive manner. Most of us who see the violence caused by these people high on drugs or just crazy, understand lethal force was justified.

For me it is like the little boy who cried wolf. You see the same cop haters in every thread regardless of if the shooting was justified or not. When you get the ones that were NOT justified, then u get the point. Alot of people are skeptical because many here spout the same garbage everytime.

Most of us who see the violence caused by these people high on drugs or just crazy, understand lethal force was justified.

So in your world anyone who is high on drugs or just crazy should be shot. I understand your position but I do not agree. Furthermore I doubt if many juries would agree and I'm pretty sure the friends and relatives of the victims would find fault for just randomly shooting intoxicated or crazy people. If a cop can't take down an unarmed intoxicated person without lethal force, the cop is incompetent. At least that's what my cop friends tell me.
I'm really quite weary of being called a cop hater because I don't automatically jump in and defend senseless loss of life because the taker of life wears a badge.

originally posted by: diggindirt
a reply to: Answer
Could you post your links for those sources please?
Could you also post your source for the last quote in your post?
If make these claims you really should post links for your claims as to added info.
Just for your information, there is a great deal of difference in, as you say, "running around" or "being violent" so which was it? When did "running around" become a capital offense?

Please tell me this: If this were your son would you feel that the cop had done everything possible to get this young man the help he needed? Or would you be okay with burying your son because he was "running around" covered in blood after having fallen several feet from a second floor?
What made the cop so fearful? What made him imagine that this young man could do him bodily harm? He didn't even have a water hose nozzle. articles.latimes.com...

Are you incapable of using Google?

S ource

LBFD Dispatcher: Long Beach fire and paramedics. What’s the address of the emergency?
Caller: Hi, I’m calling, my address is (Silenced.) East 15th Street.
*SNIPPED FOR SPACE*
Dispatcher: OK, and what’s the emergency there?
Caller: I think one of our neighbors might be intoxicated and they fell out of a window
Dispatcher: (Unclear)
Caller: And they’re bloody.
Dispatcher: OK. Where are they right now?
Caller: He’s kind of irate. They’re walking around. Some friends are trying to get him back. He fell out of a second story window, or jumped out. I don’t really know. But he’s walking around, but he’s very intoxicated and bloody.
Dispatcher: OK. Do you know where he’s bleeding from?
Caller: Not the head, I don’t believe. It’s the arm, torso.
Dispatcher: (Unclear) And you said he’s kind of (Unclear.)
Caller: (Unclear, possibly “He’s bad with it.”)
Dispatcher: Is he violent at all?
Caller: I think he is a little bit violent.
Dispatcher: OK. How old is does he look? We’re going to send the paramedics, OK?
Caller: He’s got to be in his 20s.
Dispatcher: In his 20s? And you think he was drinking?
Caller: Yeah. I think we need police also, yeah.
Dispatcher: I’ll send the police. We do have help on the way, OK. Do you see him right now?
Caller: (Unclear, possibly “Thank you.”)
Caller: OK. Thank you.
Dispatcher: You’re welcome. Bye bye.

Source

According to police, Morad was bloody and behaving aggressively when a responding police officer told Morad he was there to provide medical assistance. Police said Morad refused a command to stop approaching the police officer and could not be subdued despite the officer’s use of less-lethal weapons, including a Taser, and physical force, identified Tuesday as a flashlight. Police said the officer fired after Morad threatened to attack him.

Unfortunately, it's very difficult to find actual facts about this case because 99% of the articles on Google lead in with "Unarmed Muslim debate-team leader national superstar angel child who was going to change the world and rescued babies on the weekends falls out of window and is shot by police."

originally posted by: Shamrock6 blah blah blah

you are transparent. i see through you.

originally posted by: Answer 99% of the articles on Google lead in with "Unarmed Muslim debate-team leader national superstar angel child who was going to change the world and rescued babies on the weekends falls out of window and is shot by police."

link to

1

article that says this? i'll wait.

originally posted by: RoScoLaz4

originally posted by: Answer 99% of the articles on Google lead in with "Unarmed Muslim debate-team leader national superstar angel child who was going to change the world and rescued babies on the weekends falls out of window and is shot by police."

link to

1

article that says this? i'll wait.

Oh shut up. You know what exaggeration is.

It's very telling that you chose THAT to quote from my post.

originally posted by: RoScoLaz4

originally posted by: Shamrock6 blah blah blah

you are transparent. i see through you.

Pot, meet kettle.

originally posted by: RoScoLaz4

originally posted by: Shamrock6 blah blah blah

you are transparent. i see through you.

That's cute, really. In the immortal words of John Cena: you can't see me bro.

Truth hurts does it?

originally posted by: Shamrock6
Bringing up "the old west" as if it was somehow the paragon of virtue? Wyatt Earp's vendetta ride would say otherwise. And that's just one example.

No doubt a jab at me. I'll bite. My statement in no way inferred that those times were the pinnacle of virtue. I raised the point as it's definitely accurate. The further you go back in history, the less accounts you hear of unarmed men being killed by law enforcement. Also, claiming that one man's "wild ride" is some how representative of all law enforcement during that time period is akin to saying that one dirty cop is is representative of all cops.

As for everything else in your post, I've no idea if it was directed at me or not. I don't know if he was on mushrooms or pcp. I dont know the mental state of the manor the cop. Who even knows if he really did jump out of the window or if he fell out.

What I do know is there seems to be an abundance of clues that the man was not in the correct mental state. Less lethal measures failed, fine.

The problem with the situation I see is, if the officer had help on scene, could they really not subdue him without shooting him?

a reply to: diggindirt
No, I think someone high on drugs / crazy, coming at you aggressively after instructions to stop, after using non lethal force methods, should.

Senseless loss of life? It's rather simple dont you think? Person doesnt try and attack someone after multiple warnings and non lethal force, and person lives.

originally posted by: LoverBoy
a reply to: diggindirt
No, I think someone high on drugs / crazy, coming at you aggressively after instructions to stop, after using non lethal force methods, should.

As the only officer on scene, I can understand that. Do you think that stance should apply to two or more officers?

a reply to: EternalSolace
Good question. This I can really see both views. Even if the person was solo, most woukd be singing the same tune as you can see here on multiple occasions. If the person was solo then absolutely.

I would THINK that multiple people would be able to subdue him before it reached the point of lethal force. Without a video it is hard to see. He was apparently already hit with a flashlight and tased while still attacking. At what point did the other officer show up?

Ive seen on one occasion a big man severely beat 3 police officers while high on adrenaline and a few drinks. He was not shot but it would have been justified. He did however die from injuries he sustained.

I think the Use of force continuum in this case is textbook. Verbal commands, non lethal force multiple ways, and as last resort, lethal force. I think their are many other cases going on right now and in the recent past where the same can not be said.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: abe froman

Shouldn't you be looking through this kid's social media for character assassination material and memorizing his height and weight?

But wait, the kid wasn't black, so in this case he can't possibly be made out to be a "gangsta".

As already said, it seems most US cops spend their entire career with their fingers on the trigger just peeing their pants, maybe waiting for that perfect moment where they can finally fire that gun and claim "I WAS SCARED!"

I think someone needs to start a new program in Police Academy, where all new recruits are told repeatedly for three days "you know this is a dangerous job. Do you still want to do it?" Maybe then they won't be recruiting all these wannabe heroes scared of their own shadows.

a reply to: EternalSolace

A problem many people have is understanding that cops are not all cage fighters. And many cops that have extensive martial arts training are cautioned against using it on the job. Why? Because if they use a technique that isn't department approved and it results in injury or death, that officer is responsible for it. Put a guy in a rear naked choke and he collapses and dies, that's on you. Or should be (not trying to go down that rabbit hole)

Cops aren't there to trade blows with people. People seem to think that if you go empty handed against an officer, he has to respond in kind. He absolutely categorically does NOT have to.

1) as I said, he is not there to demonstrate boxing techniques because both parties can sustain significant injuries the longer a fight progresses

2) force is used to RESOLVE a situation, not prolong it. Getting into a boxing match isn't resolving anything.

Officers also are not required to attempt every level of the use of force continuum. From the sound of it, this particular officer tried at least two different levels before moving to lethal force, and possibly more. Time will tell whether that's actually true or not, though.

I think it's far too early to say what was right or wrong in this specific incident. The witness statements are wildly different from each other. There's far too much gray in the air right now to have a definitive take on it, I think.