Hacked Emails Expose George Soros As Ukraine Puppet-Master

a reply to: dragonridr

He's to bias to ever admit the truth even when Putin tells him.

Call me names and then chill out again. Neither you or the other mainscreamer provided me with some decent info.
Stick to the facts and stop projecting your bias onto others. I'm still waiting for you to back up your claims, which will never happen I guess...

Occupation, really? You kids don't know what you are talking about.

Obey a nice day now!

We already know the USG pushed billions of dollars into Ukraine in order to "promote democracy". About 7 billion dollars went to various "democracy" promoting NGO's.

Old George might be sending some money of his own but I don't think he can overshadow what the USG had been sending. Perhaps millions in lieu of billions. George wouldn't "invest" that heavily without possible massive returns. Ukraine doesn't offer Soros that much incentive- unless you're one of the right wingers who thinks he's a communist working to build the "NWO". lol

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: dragonridr

He's to bias to ever admit the truth even when Putin tells him.

Call me names and then chill out again. Neither you or the other mainscreamer provided me with some decent info.
Stick to the facts and stop projecting your bias onto others. I'm still waiting for you to back up your claims, which will never happen I guess...

Occupation, really? You kids don't know what you are talking about.

Obey a nice day now!

Truth is you choose to ignore the information posted like Putin admitting he sent troops into Crimeach before the referendum. And you ignore the fact the Russian govt admitted that only 15 percent of people in crimea voted. Throw in the stuff I posted about how the referendum itself was a farce with lawmakers that didn't even vote. And armed Russians taking over the givernment. Heres an idea instead of putting your fingers in your ears why not show us if you can how Putin lied and he didn't send in troops.

originally posted by: JeanPaul
We already know the USG pushed billions of dollars into Ukraine in order to "promote democracy". About 7 billion dollars went to various "democracy" promoting NGO's.

Old George might be sending some money of his own but I don't think he can overshadow what the USG had been sending. Perhaps millions in lieu of billions. George wouldn't "invest" that heavily without possible massive returns. Ukraine doesn't offer Soros that much incentive- unless you're one of the right wingers who thinks he's a communist working to build the "NWO". lol

Your right soros would be a drop in the bucket compared to US and Russian expenditures. Realize through subsidies and cash incentives Russia spent way over the US. Diffrence us where the money went. Russia the money went to governmwnt officials US money went to programs.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: JeanPaul
We already know the USG pushed billions of dollars into Ukraine in order to "promote democracy". About 7 billion dollars went to various "democracy" promoting NGO's.

Old George might be sending some money of his own but I don't think he can overshadow what the USG had been sending. Perhaps millions in lieu of billions. George wouldn't "invest" that heavily without possible massive returns. Ukraine doesn't offer Soros that much incentive- unless you're one of the right wingers who thinks he's a communist working to build the "NWO". lol

Your right soros would be a drop in the bucket compared to US and Russian expenditures. Realize through subsidies and cash incentives Russia spent way over the US. Diffrence us where the money went. Russia the money went to governmwnt officials US money went to programs.

I think if the well being of Ukrainians is the goal people the world over should support an independent Ukraine with the ability to maximize their own productive capabilities free from both western/Russian influence/exploitation.

This means no predatory loans with austerity strings attached. It means no development largely for the benefit of foreign businessmen. It means Ukraine maximizing their productive capabilities/use of resources by the Ukrainian people for the Ukrainian people. Much in the same way Ghandi fought for an independent India.

I see this situation as an economic neocolonial project side by side with a new era of Russian containment. On the other side I see Russia reacting to this new era of containment with plans of their own, attempting to facilitate an expanding influence, economically and politically.

Ukrainians would be better off without the EU and their financial institutions. They'd also be better off developing without Russian strings attached. The world would probably be safer if both the US and Russia stopped acting like imperialist aggressors but I suppose this is just capitalism as it manifests on the nation state level. This sort of "competition" to expand influence/profits. To create military/economic "partnerships" which benefits one group over the other.

China seems to be an even bigger "competitor" with a creeping ability to perhaps marginalize US hegemony. The up and comming "pivot to Asia" should prove interesting. As China plans a "New Silk Road" and various development projects eastward and down into Africa. More proxy wars will probably manifest. Japan and South Korea might be used by the US in order to stall some of Chins's plans. Russia seems to be forming much closer ties with China than we saw during the old Cold War. Complicating things, even many EU nations are on board with much of China's development projects. Even the World Bank executive who is now president of Afghanistan is on board with China.

Most of this is above my pay grade, it's a complex web of economic/political activity with $ trillions on the line. Ukraine is perhaps just a part of an overall larger conflict or "New Cold War" between the US and Russia/China/Iran. Or maybe the USA is actually "spreading democracy"? lol

I'm not in any rush to pick sides. I just want to eat a sandwich, watch some TV and perhaps have sex from time to time. I suppose it would be nice if my tax dollars didn't go to all this "democracy promotion". Especially the sort we promoted in Iraq and Afghanistan.

a reply to: JeanPaul

There was never an attempt to encircle or contain Russia. First that just shows a lack of geography do you realize how large a border and how many countries are beside russia. If your NATO YOU Don't Contain A Country By Giving Them Offices In YOUR Headquarters. NATO allowed them to sit in on meetings help plan operations right up until they were expelled do to invading Ukraine.

You don't realize the cooperation between NATO and Russia. It was Putin's actions that changed that in fact the US and Russia were good friends until Ukraine they assisted on thr transfer of supplies and troops into afganistan. Helped in the Iraq conflict as well but Russians currently are attempting to rewrite history. Why simple Russia needs a bad guy it's the only way Putin can continue his plans. To the US Russia was considered an important ally in the world until Putin needed his fall guy.

This is why billions were spent rebuilding Russia turns out Putin was funneling a large portion of this money for his private use bit as they say hindsight is 20 20.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: JeanPaul

There was never an attempt to encircle or contain Russia.

Of course there is. Denying this is just silly.

originally posted by: JeanPaul

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: JeanPaul

There was never an attempt to encircle or contain Russia.

Of course there is. Denying this is just silly.

Really take NATO along time to pull this miracle off. But I guess you believe Europe is the only border Russia has. Here you also might want to learn about the special relationship Russia had with NATO. No other non member was given the ability to help make decisions on NATO actions. Russia had a level of cooperation that went far beyond even some of the member states. There was even cooperation on balistic missile defense. And an early warning system staffed by NATO and Russia. I know you knew none of this right?? Even better here read about the unique relationship that Russia had until they invaded Ukraine.

www.nato.int...

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: JeanPaul

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: JeanPaul

There was never an attempt to encircle or contain Russia.

Of course there is. Denying this is just silly.

Really take NATO along time to pull this miracle off. But I guess you believe Europe is the only border Russia has. Here you also might want to learn about the special relationship Russia had with NATO. No other non member was given the ability to help make decisions on NATO actions. Russia had a level of cooperation that went far beyond even some of the member states. There was even cooperation on balistic missile defense. And an early warning system staffed by NATO and Russia. I know you knew none of this right?? Even better here read about the unique relationship that Russia had until they invaded Ukraine.

www.nato.int...

Yes, under the guise of securing the Eursaian continent from terrorist attacks.

In reality, why do you think the west pushed so many of the old Warsaw nations into NATO? I've read "The Grand Chessboard" and it's abundantly obvious what the US/west has been doing. I've also read an endless stream of publications from various think tanks which have been advocating containment since the mid 1990's after the USSR dissolved.

Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Estonia, Albania, Slovokia, Lithuania...basically all the old Warsaw Pact nations have been pushed into NATO. Soon Georgia.

The goal is to prevent Russia from ever having the ability to challenge US/western hegemony again. Ukraine, as explained by various US advisers, is a "pivotal" nation which would give Russia too much political/economic power on the Eurasian continent.

NATO has absolutely pushed up right to Russia's doorstep. They finally put their foot down in Ukraine. This is the Pentagons "long war". Geopolitical strategy meant to contain Russia after the fall of the USSR. To place and keep them in a subservient role.

China, Russia and Iran aren't playing along. Welcome to the real world.

a reply to: JeanPaul

I'd love to hear how those former Warsaw Pact countries were "pushed" into NATO. Considering that among the NATO countries calling for a stronger line against Russia, they are the most vocal. If anyone "pushed" them into NATO, it was Russia.

Please don't post information from NATO's website and expect me to take it or you seriously. You're either naive and don't understand how all this works or you're collecting a paycheck from the State Department.

Next you're going to deny that the US made the first move in Ukraine. Right? Lets just ignore the generated protest movements crafted by the billions in US funding for NGO activities. For "promoting democracy". Never happened right? Of course not!

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: JeanPaul

I'd love to hear how those former Warsaw Pact countries were "pushed" into NATO. Considering that among the NATO countries calling for a stronger line against Russia, they are the most vocal. If anyone "pushed" them into NATO, it was Russia.

They can't answer it because their is no answer their argument can produce. The USSR was a failure and they are incapable of accepting that occupied countries want nothing to do with the USSR / Russia.

Just like their argument that the US stands alone and no one likes the US yet every ounce of evidence shows that to be untrue. If it were the US would be in Russians position and Russia would have no issues finding friends as opposed to countries they think they can control thru brute intimidation.

Like the USSR, Putin is a failure and is too arrogant to see it.

Also has anyone else noticed we seem to be missing our former pro Russian contingent while we all of a sudden have an influx of green names picking up where they left off?

It's bizarre to imagine a player like George looking at the world like a casino to be gamed. World events play out like a deck being shuffled, he sits with a hand, looks at the pot, and carefully calculates an amount to put for a chance to win it all.

What a weirdo.

originally posted by: JeanPaul
Please don't post information from NATO's website and expect me to take it or you seriously. You're either naive and don't understand how all this works or you're collecting a paycheck from the State Department.

Typical response - "you're a paid shill!"

originally posted by: JeanPaul
Next you're going to deny that the US made the first move in Ukraine. Right? Lets just ignore the generated protest movements crafted by the billions in US funding for NGO activities. For "promoting democracy". Never happened right? Of course not!

I really do not see why this is even a valid argument. So what if NGO's were in Ukraine promoting better Government, fighting corruption and promoting democratic values - why is that a bad thing?

Ukraine has a rampant corruption problem and has suffered for years under poor Governance, mainly as a result of 70 years of Russian domination under the USSR.

They required help in building a modern, democratic state and if anyone has issues with that, then I think they need to take a long, hard look in the mirror.

NGO's are active the world over, for a variety of reasons and are usually in the worst run places in an effort to either fill in for the Governments lack of provision (education or health) or to promote better Governance.

The only reason this NGO charade is being promoted by the pro-Russian lot is because Putin started the whole "NGO's are bad, Mkay" thing in Russia, because they dared to try and promote values that ran counter to what he had envisaged for his resurgent Soviet Empire. You can't be a dictator if everyone is being told of their rights and being offered something better, can you?

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: JeanPaul

I'd love to hear how those former Warsaw Pact countries were "pushed" into NATO. Considering that among the NATO countries calling for a stronger line against Russia, they are the most vocal. If anyone "pushed" them into NATO, it was Russia.

lol.

That's what happens when you're promised western Europian prosperity and when the US sends billions of dollars into the countries in so buying out their political process. The best "democracy" money (bribery) can buy.

Lets not even begin to touch upon the subversive programs the US has been funding all around Russia's periphery. If you can't see this containment policy then you're lost in space. Ah, space! The other region the USA is seeking to dominate. Lets not forget about the Internet as well.

Why are there so many apologists for US imperialism on this site? I'm certainly not siding with team Russia but I can at least be honest about the almost two decades long process that brought us to this point.

The US wants to keep Russia from ever achieving the status the USSR once held. Denying this is absurd. The fall of the Soviet Union gave them the opportunity to expand NATO up to Russia's front door.

Of course Russia's nuclear arsenal prevents an out in the open agenda...so, NATO is just there to help Russia out! To be friends! Next you'll try to sell me Sara Palins bridge in Alaska.

originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: JeanPaul
Please don't post information from NATO's website and expect me to take it or you seriously. You're either naive and don't understand how all this works or you're collecting a paycheck from the State Department.

Typical response - "you're a paid shill!"

originally posted by: JeanPaul
Next you're going to deny that the US made the first move in Ukraine. Right? Lets just ignore the generated protest movements crafted by the billions in US funding for NGO activities. For "promoting democracy". Never happened right? Of course not!

I really do not see why this is even a valid argument. So what if NGO's were in Ukraine promoting better Government, fighting corruption and promoting democratic values - why is that a bad thing?

Ukraine has a rampant corruption problem and has suffered for years under poor Governance, mainly as a result of 70 years of Russian domination under the USSR.

They required help in building a modern, democratic state and if anyone has issues with that, then I think they need to take a long, hard look in the mirror.

NGO's are active the world over, for a variety of reasons and are usually in the worst run places in an effort to either fill in for the Governments lack of provision (education or health) or to promote better Governance.

The only reason this NGO charade is being promoted by the pro-Russian lot is because Putin started the whole "NGO's are bad, Mkay" thing in Russia, because they dared to try and promote values that ran counter to what he had envisaged for his resurgent Soviet Empire. You can't be a dictator if everyone is being told of their rights and being offered something better, can you?

This is real? You really think this way?

a reply to: JeanPaul

You didn't answer his question.

Russia will never attain the status the USSR did, unless you are referring to its failures.

a reply to: JeanPaul

Oh, those evil Americans, they just control everything don't they?

Even if what you say is true - and I don't doubt for one minute that there is probably an element of truth in that - the people of Eastern Europe have never had it so good.

Economies have boomed since joining with the West (EU), markets have opened up, they are able to travel anywhere they please to find work, they have rights, they aren't subject to Secret Police arresting them and making them vanish, they can vote, standards of living have rocketed, healthcare provision is far better etc etc..

Life in Eastern Europe is a damned site better than it was under the Soviet yoke and I challenge you to prove otherwise - regardless if what you say about NGO's is 100% true.

Washington has also been pushing for Bosnia, Montenegro and Macedonia to join NATO. Take off the intentionally placed blinders.

originally posted by: JeanPaul
This is real? You really think this way?

It's not a matter of "thinking" - these are the facts of the matter.

The people of Ukraine - even if "educated" by foreign NGO's - wanted a better life than that offered by Russia and desired closer ties with the most liberal and economically successful continent on the planet, Europe. Russia cajoled and bribed the then Ukraine leadership into reneging on that deal and offered them a "customs Union" which offered nothing close to what the EU did.

Just look at life in Russia compared to the EU. Basic Human rights being trampled on, opposition being suppressed, an economy in the toilet with rampant corruption and nepotism everywhere. Sounds lovely, I can't see why the people of Ukraine rejected it......