god is the judge...

And satan is the prosecutor or acuser and jesus is the defendant. what if there were a trial in heaven that went a certain way and thats what caused the war in heaven, nowhere in the bible can i find why the war in heaven started between satan and archangel michael in revelation. in revelation it says that satan stands before god all the time and acuses "Our brethren." why wouldn't the prosecution go for jesus?

a reply to: Belcastro

Interesting questions. Allow me to ask a few.

Why doesn't Satan just thwart God's plans by refusing to bring forth an anti-Christ? That way he could defeat God by keeping prophecy unfulfilled and rule the world and man for eternity.

What if there was no trial in heaven?

What if all of it is for the most part, mythologies?

a reply to: Belcastro

Fairy tales don't have to make sense.

All anyone has to go off when it comes to the validity of some stories in the bible, and especially the details behind those stories, is basically all up to speculation. That's why you see so many denominations within Christianity. It is not a clear and direct book. All interpretations of it are individualistic and subjective. Unfortunately, there is no one that can answer your question with any certainty; at least, certainty with actual facts to back up their claims.

a reply to: Belcastro

Why won't my ham sandwich make itself?

All religion is childish superstition- Albert Einstein.

Jesus and Satan and all that other #e you believe in is fictional nonsense. Fairy stories.

Discussing the ins and outs of your vague and incoherent question is irrelevant, what is relevant is that you honestly believe that there is a 'Satan' and a 'God'. Which I'm afraid makes you mentally deficient in my book. Nothing personal. I brand all religious people of all faiths equally. You are all completely away with it. Plus you are embarrassing us all. The whole galaxy thinks we are primitive maniacs who believe in the non existent and who's chief activity is tribal warfare. Any advanced ET life aware of us would no doubt A:avoid this place and B:make sure we don't get the capability to leave it and infect other planets with our backward religious horse-#. You are the reason we can't have nice things.

What scares me is that you obviously believe all this age old religious rubbish or you wouldn't have posted it. It has always fascinated me how folk with such delusions are able to function in the real world at all. This is also the reason our taxes are so high and insurance rates are through the roof. Idiots, religious idiots being cheated and swindled and defrauded by criminals. Why? they are gullible, easily led and lack the abiilty for free and rational thought and common sense that most of us do. Then you have these morons getting behind the wheel. They are away in bloody fairy land and shouldn't be driving some of them.

And don't drag me down to your level with the usual idiot trademark offensive insult stamp 'atheist'. We call ourselves normal over here (in reality). You bloody religious wack jobs. All the wars and crime your stupid religions create are the reasons our taxes are so high and air travel is a #ing nightmare.

With everything going on in the world right now you have the nerve to come on here and ponder this pish? You and the usual suspects of frothing religious buffoons that come on here and basically preach and then just add a bloody half assed question at the end so it can actually qualify as a post.

Why do you think this crap belongs on this site at all? Oooh conspiracies in religion ! I forgot.

I am so damned done with #ing religion. I am sick of it's effects, it's legacy's, the endless death, the endless infantile 'news' incidents about some religious crap or other. It's driving me up the bloody wall. Look at the cluster# in the middle east! Religion is just bloody great isn't it? Can we have some more of that please? Kooks.

I'd love it if Jade Helm was a secret scheme to round up religious maniacs and keep them in Wal-Mart all summer. Would be so peaceful without all the #ing whining.

Just keep it down will you. The grown ups are talking.

originally posted by: Belcastro
And satan is the prosecutor or acuser and jesus is the defendant. what if there were a trial in heaven that went a certain way and thats what caused the war in heaven, nowhere in the bible can i find why the war in heaven started between satan and archangel michael in revelation. in revelation it says that satan stands before god all the time and acuses "Our brethren." why wouldn't the prosecution go for jesus?

I thought it was because the 'fallen angel' wanted more power. That he challenged god and wanted to take his place?

We are talking about centuries -old documents, 'prophets' that wrote them and a language that might not be correctly translated- but that is what the OP is about. Much of the bible has real history.

Maybe we can stick to the Op's question and not turn the entire idea into a 'fairy tale'.

Let's start there. that is an interesting question

a reply to: Belcastro

Religion was created to form a focus for ordinary people so that they can be easily manipulated into thinking they will offend some deity if they don't do what they are told by those who created it.

There were no priests until society was able to support their lifestyle and they don't want to loose their lucrative existence. Who would ever elect most of them in the first place were priests democratically elected - no one.

People exited for millennia without the desert religions, each equally created out of cultural means for control by a few.

Now we can see into space - anyone seen heaven floating by? In fact has anyone ever seen God or a miracle either?

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: Belcastro

Religion was created to form a focus for ordinary people so that they can be easily manipulated into thinking they will offend some deity if they don't do what they are told by those who created it.

There were no priests until society was able to support their lifestyle and they don't want to loose their lucrative existence. Who would ever elect most of them in the first place were priests democratically elected - no one.

People exited for millennia without the desert religions, each equally created out of cultural means for control by a few.

Now we can see into space - anyone seen heaven floating by? In fact has anyone ever seen God or a miracle either?

No. That sounds 'smart'. But it is not true. I am not saying people should follow a religion or that any particular religion is correct..but your explanation is much too simple.

There is a lot more than what we see. A spiritual world. A god or gods. Parallel universes. Religion has been used to manipulate, but that is not why it started.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: Belcastro

double post mistake.

edit on 2-6-2015 by reldra because: (no reason given)

a reply to: angus1745
Please. Tell us how you really feel.


On topic: Mutiny!

originally posted by: angus1745
All religion is childish superstition- Albert Einstein.

“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” - Albert Einstein.

Yes, he supposedly may have meant it a different way, but taken at face value the quote I have brought forward makes a lot more sense then 'ALL religion is childish superstition'. Open minds leads to discovery - both for people of religion and people of science.

I'm pretty sure the defense would win in such a situation, seeing as the judge and the defendant are the same.....person/ghost.

originally posted by: reldra
There is a lot more than what we see. A spiritual world. A god or gods. Parallel universes. Religion has been used to manipulate, but that is not why it started.

This topic of debate is an odd one. On one hand we have an argument which is solely based on evidence; within the other position, faith and belief is all that there is to use to form a position.

I would say that Parallel universes are a possibility, if not a likelihood. We do have evidence that suggests this could be true.

As for a "spiritual world", we currently don't have any Hard-Evidence. We do have many incidences that challenge our perception of things, and I've experienced my fair share of those incidences. My personal conclusion is that there is no possible way those things could have occurred in the way we currently view "natural" to be. But does the possible existence of things such as "Ghosts" mean that there is a god? No. To say so is just looking for evidence to describe something you believe in, rather than the rational way of coming to conclusions, which is to find evidence and only then make conclusions around the evidence you have found.

We have a pretty decent understanding about how almost anything we've observed in the observable universe has formed, or can form. All of which have came into being by purely natural means. There is nothing in our findings that would suggest a magical being lent their handy-work to the equation.

Again, you're looking at the universe in a way which already assumes there is a god, and looking for evidence to support your premature conclusion. However, when a person does this, they bend the facts and speculate that whatever their belief is is the cause for whatever phenomena they claim their belief made.

a reply to: Belcastro

It would seem most like Christians of all types and all faithful to the true God are enduring the trial most.

Religion is constantly getting accused for all world problems. The sad thing is, that we can see why. Religion is full of men who abuse people, cause horror and call what is deceit 'truth' and vice versa.

The faithful come under fire as the many in the world step on them and curse them for being in association.

God is judge and God sees all, so the truth at the moment is obscure and we wait for the moment of truth.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

The antichrist is Satan's attempt to replace the Father and Son. If he chooses not to unleash the antichrist, he loses his case.

Jesus died for all created souls, so Satan is free to accept the blood of Christ and recieve salvation too, but he won't. Prophecy tells you what choices we will make, not what we are forced to make.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
Prophecy tells you what choices we will make, not what we are forced to make.

you do realize that if there is an infallible prophecy, or destiny that tells about the choices we will make, then we are indeed bound by its infallibility. There for the "choices" we make are merely an illusion of free will. If the choices were already determined for us before the events occurred, then we didn't really make a choice during those events. Again, it is just an illusion of choice.

originally posted by: angus1745
All religion is childish superstition- Albert Einstein.

Jesus and Satan and all that other #e you believe in is fictional nonsense. Fairy stories.

Discussing the ins and outs of your vague and incoherent question is irrelevant, what is relevant is that you honestly believe that there is a 'Satan' and a 'God'. Which I'm afraid makes you mentally deficient in my book. Nothing personal. I brand all religious people of all faiths equally. You are all completely away with it. Plus you are embarrassing us all. The whole galaxy thinks we are primitive maniacs who believe in the non existent and who's chief activity is tribal warfare. Any advanced ET life aware of us would no doubt A:avoid this place and B:make sure we don't get the capability to leave it and infect other planets with our backward religious horse-#. You are the reason we can't have nice things.

What scares me is that you obviously believe all this age old religious rubbish or you wouldn't have posted it. It has always fascinated me how folk with such delusions are able to function in the real world at all. This is also the reason our taxes are so high and insurance rates are through the roof. Idiots, religious idiots being cheated and swindled and defrauded by criminals. Why? they are gullible, easily led and lack the abiilty for free and rational thought and common sense that most of us do. Then you have these morons getting behind the wheel. They are away in bloody fairy land and shouldn't be driving some of them.

And don't drag me down to your level with the usual idiot trademark offensive insult stamp 'atheist'. We call ourselves normal over here (in reality). You bloody religious wack jobs. All the wars and crime your stupid religions create are the reasons our taxes are so high and air travel is a #ing nightmare.

With everything going on in the world right now you have the nerve to come on here and ponder this pish? You and the usual suspects of frothing religious buffoons that come on here and basically preach and then just add a bloody half assed question at the end so it can actually qualify as a post.

Why do you think this crap belongs on this site at all? Oooh conspiracies in religion ! I forgot.

I am so damned done with #ing religion. I am sick of it's effects, it's legacy's, the endless death, the endless infantile 'news' incidents about some religious crap or other. It's driving me up the bloody wall. Look at the cluster# in the middle east! Religion is just bloody great isn't it? Can we have some more of that please? Kooks.

I'd love it if Jade Helm was a secret scheme to round up religious maniacs and keep them in Wal-Mart all summer. Would be so peaceful without all the #ing whining.

Just keep it down will you. The grown ups are talking.

This post hits the nail clean on the head, religion is a primitive and barbaric little exercise that should have disappeared long ago, it causes nothing but war and suffering wherever it goes. I can't fathom how in this day and age grown adults of a supposedly intelligent species can go around worshiping an invisible being that that there is absolutely ZERO evidence of to support its existence, its completely mind boggling to me.

Religion was nothing more than a method to control the masses that for some sad reason stuck, my only hope is that some day people open their eye's and realize that no magic sky daddy is coming to save them and the world is nothing more than we make it ourselves.

a reply to: angus1745

You seem to be speaking from the point of view of not having truly studied the great tradition of religion and spirituality - and to be reacting more in terms of fundamentalism and what religions have tended to become after their founders passed away.

If you had engaged in a thorough study of these traditions, you would realize that the founders of those traditions are basically saying the same thing relative to living a life based in Truth - with real recognition of the Divine as its basis. Each founder's teachings are based on his or her particular degree of understanding, but essentially, they all speak to living a life based in the Divine.

Now granted, most people do not do this, and have turned the intentions and teachings of the founders into all kinds of belief systems and various justifications for their behaviors, some of which are horrible as you rightly point out. Many do all of this rather than using such teachings as a means to better understand our situation here.

And yes, many religious mythologies are bs - man-mind creations - such as the Creator-God idea. Consider what else Einstein said about religion and spirituality before using an out of context quote to imply he had no beliefs in the Divine.

Also, study further and determine if this is actually what many of the original teachings are talking about - before engaging in such a damnation of all religious traditions.

originally posted by: angus1745
Would be so peaceful without all the #ing whining.

Just keep it down will you. The grown ups are talking.

It's ironic that I was having a very peaceful morning when I came upon your rant.

a reply to: Prezbo369

I agree with two thirds of that, at least.

Not sure what outcome to expect, but the judge, prosecutor and defendant are all the same.

Yahweh, Yeshua and Lucifer are just different aspects of one entity. The Demiurge.

Technically, the jury and audience are too, since we're all one mind.

They say we're a species with amnesia, well, we've got some serious multiple personality issues too...

The only participants I'm not sure of are the archons - I'm not sure if they're actually conscious entities or simply software that's gone awry.

One thing I am sure of, however, is that no matter what the verdict is, the archons will lose. They do not serve the demiurge, as gnostics claim, nor do they serve the most high. They serve only themselves and have no loyalty, even to their own kind. All they care about is the fear and anger they feed on.