Israeli Defence Minister calls for calm over rumoured attack on Iran

Originally posted by Sep

Originally posted by zurvan
What, Sep, are you calling the black turbaned Khomeini and Khomeini Iranian? well they could be Iranian given that they were born in Iran but they are not certainly Persian. I am sure you are rightly aware that black turban means Arabness! and that is why it was invented. I mean I have used Arabness as the alternative term normally used could not go down on this board well

Any ways those "black rug heads" running Iran are not Persian and won't ever be. and I think Thinker is right!

Iran will be liberated way easier than Iraq as most of Iranians have had it with Islam and rug head leaders!

PS. Sep please don't ignore this question! are you a Seyed? I have noticed a couple of times you deny that you are Moslem! I find it really puzzling given some of your posts!
Bedrud,
Z.

I can assure you I am not a Seyed, nor am I a Moslem. I am from a little city near Yazd and my forefathers have lived there for hundreds of years. I am probebly more Persian than most of the other "Persians". I lived most my life in Iran, I came out of my country because my religion is not allowed to study further than year 11 in Iran, so I came here, I am currently studying and am planning to go back to Iran.

About my posts, I defend Moslims because my great,great grandfather was formally a Muslim and I will not stand by while people make fun of his religion.

About the "Arabs" running Iran, I assume you know about the people the US is going to install if the try to "free" us. They have been supporting MKO. Do you know who they are?

I have no idea who are the MKO.
If persian's don't want their own nation it's up to them. Then they can allie with the arab/muslims and fight the american's. If they do then the civil war will being.

If america attacks, the persian's will be given this option. Which has not been given to them for hundreds of years.

So as long as the majority does not vote for MKO I don't see them running the country. Iran's only choice is to go back to its only true and legal constitution, the one written about 100 years ago and changed illegally after the revolution!

anyways don't be hard on yourself on your ancestors choice to be Muslim. At the time I'd say given the extent of information available and the sheer size of tragedy that had to be carried by survivors of Muslim invasion, it was natural to be Muslim! I mean otherwise you were killed or had no rights, right.

I think what is more offensive is to try and defend Islam or justify its crimes. I mean most of Persians alive today must have been Muslim at some stage in the past that is the only reason we are alive today anyways

take care,
z.

Originally posted by KrazyIvan

Originally posted by S7ranger
Nothing will help iran if US or Israel decides to destroy the reactor.. pretty much, they can just bombard iran with hundreds of cruise missiles.

the us wont touch it, need i remind you were up to our necks in iraq. isreal will bomb it. trust me in this one.

Hey to Mullahs of Iran it wont matter if U.S. actually attacks or if American trained pilots using American built F16s drop American built bunker busters! the point is they would lash out at anybody and everybody that they could reach in their vicinity, so even if U.S. is out in the initial phase they would be dragged into the conflict pretty quickly!

Originally posted by zurvan
So as long as the majority does not vote for MKO I don't see them running the country. Iran's only choice is to go back to its only true and legal constitution, the one written about 100 years ago and changed illegally after the revolution!

First: The leagal consittution that was writen under the supervision of the Russians and the British? I dont think so. You want to return the Monarchs back to power? I sure dont.

Second: In Iraq, who voted for the intem government? (I will give you a hint, it wasnt the Iraqis). What tells you that it will be diffrent in Iran? The US puts up whoever they want, they will fraud the election and put up a pupet government.

anyways don't be hard on yourself on your ancestors choice to be Muslim. At the time I'd say given the extent of information available and the sheer size of tragedy that had to be carried by survivors of Muslim invasion, it was natural to be Muslim! I mean otherwise you were killed or had no rights, right.

Youu watch you mouth when you talk about my ancestors. It wasnt for fear that he turned to Islam. That is not how my family works. He turned to Islam because he wanted to. My other ancestors turned to the religion that I follow now, because they wanted to and got put in front of the firing line for it. But they didnt back down, and died for what they believed in.

I think what is more offensive is to try and defend Islam or justify its crimes. I mean most of Persians alive today must have been Muslim at some stage in the past that is the only reason we are alive today anyways

You know nothing about Iran, Iranians and Islam. Just a question, since I answeed all of yours I wish you answer mine, how long did you live in Iran and how long has it been since you last visited?

Originally posted by Sep

Originally posted by zurvan
So as long as the majority does not vote for MKO I don't see them running the country. Iran's only choice is to go back to its only true and legal constitution, the one written about 100 years ago and changed illegally after the revolution!

First: The leagal consittution that was writen under the supervision of the Russians and the British? I dont think so. You want to return the Monarchs back to power? I sure dont.

Second: In Iraq, who voted for the intem government? (I will give you a hint, it wasnt the Iraqis). What tells you that it will be diffrent in Iran? The US puts up whoever they want, they will fraud the election and put up a pupet government.

anyways don't be hard on yourself on your ancestors choice to be Muslim. At the time I'd say given the extent of information available and the sheer size of tragedy that had to be carried by survivors of Muslim invasion, it was natural to be Muslim! I mean otherwise you were killed or had no rights, right.

Youu watch you mouth when you talk about my ancestors. It wasnt for fear that he turned to Islam. That is not how my family works. He turned to Islam because he wanted to. My other ancestors turned to the religion that I follow now, because they wanted to and got put in front of the firing line for it. But they didnt back down, and died for what they believed in.

I think what is more offensive is to try and defend Islam or justify its crimes. I mean most of Persians alive today must have been Muslim at some stage in the past that is the only reason we are alive today anyways

You know nothing about Iran, Iranians and Islam. Just a question, since I answeed all of yours I wish you answer mine, how long did you live in Iran and how long has it been since you last visited?

funny stuff I honestly wish you were right! I wish I knew noting about iran , Iranians and Islam! unfortunately I do! I was born in Iran and given that I do know about Iran and Iranians. And I had the miss fortune of having to bear Islam and got 100% for it in Konkur! so I know about Islam but hey it looks like I am lucky enough to see it destroyed in my life time yuppi ps one of my great grand fathers was an Ayatollah!


I lived in Iran for 22 years and have been out for a while now. I don't think I will return as long as there is a rughead running the country. I am quite happy to enjoy the rest of the world, thank you very much.

so Sep are you Bahhai?

bedrud,
Z.



[edit on 28-12-2004 by zurvan]

I've read a few things here that I absolutely can not believe my ears about. I mean its -really- funny.
Iran will not be much easier to occupy than Iraq. You have to think about it in the simplest terms. Who wants an army coming into their country and telling them how their future will be? Especially who wants it from America after watching us let Iraq fall into such disorder, and when most of the 1st world is setting an example of distrust for America by saying that what we did is illegal? Let's also not forget that large portions of Iraq (the parts we dont like) are going to be left out of this election because we didn't bother to bring security to those places and make it safe. I suppose its not our fault that those areas were never secured though, even though we are the only authority in that country with the military strength to put down the radicals. Even Los Angeles would be unsafe for elections if America refused to have a presence there and maintain order!
In so many words- do you REALLY think that we are trusted by ANY group in Iran?
I expect muslims in general to oppose America because we look like a bunch of christian capitalist crusaders (even if you dont think thats what we are, i'm sure you can see how your average joe in Iran would get that impression from the news and from most of the world's governments yelling at us, right?) And why should Persians see this as a chance to institutionalize their leadership over the arab muslims? If they are a proud people their first priority is going to be to kick out the Western invaders.

We couldn't even send troops into the Confederate States of America without being fought, remember? It wasn't because all of those people owned slaves either- it's because they didn't think it was right for an army to come into their homeland and try to change things. In the words of one anonymous Confederate prisoner "I'm fighting 'cause you're down here!"

Of course all of the social problems with the invasion sort of miss the real point. We can't just waltz into Iran with a full invasion. All we can do is sponsor 3rd party actions by Israel and deny all knowledge. Anything else is a political disaster waiting to happen.
Last but not least, we can't send Israel in without either getting into or getting out of Iraq, because Iran does have a fighting chance at humiliating us with a surprise invasion of Iraq if we mess with them right now.

Originally posted by zurvan
funny stuff

I honestly wish you were right! I wish I knew noting about iran , Iranians and Islam! unfortunately I do! I was born in Iran and given that I do know about Iran and Iranians. And I had the miss fortune of having to bear Islam and got 100% for it in Konkur! so I know about Islam but hey it looks like I am lucky enough to see it destroyed in my life time

yuppi ps one of my great grand fathers was an Ayatollah!


I lived in Iran for 22 years and have been out for a while now. I don't think I will return as long as there is a rughead running the country. I am quite happy to enjoy the rest of the world, thank you very much.

so Sep are you Bahhai?

Looks like I misjuged you, I appologize. We have very diffrent views and I respect yours. And also I recomend you go back to Iran for a little trip. It is getting very much better. Try visiting Kish Island, its a nice place, they are building a seven start hotel.

And one more thing, are you a Zartoshti? If you are, how are you being treated in Iran? I thought you were recognized by the government and could, in the Konkoor do the test for Zartoshti, please do correct me if I am wrong.

Nice talking to you.



[edit on 28-12-2004 by Sep]

Iranian youth has gone through 25 years of madness enforced on them by some Mad Muslim Men! believe you me as a Persian saying goes: there is no colour darker than black! and black is what we have experienced. I don't think it could get any darker over there! you would be amazed but the American Dream is shared by most of the youth in Iran, and that is something that can be used quite advantageously by U.S. I am quite positive that Iran and U.S will become friends/ allies again and ME will be under control by that stage. unfortunately the Muslim extremist will not go down without a fight and that is what they are getting right now some good plummeting IMHO Islam is evil and will have to be destroyed and unfortunately there is no nice way of destroying it. I mean time would have solved a lot of issue but I don't think that is a luxury we have against terrorist they are hell bent on destroying civilisation and nothing would stop them, that is if we didn't have America

so mark my words give Iranian youth some support and they will clean up the Mullahs for you/them!


[edit on 28-12-2004 by zurvan]

[edit on 28-12-2004 by zurvan]

Anything the youth and students do I strongly support. And invasion on the other hand, I dont. And as for supporting the youth, the US should not over-support them, because when they do, the student leaders, just like Bani Sadr, will go down

[edit on 28-12-2004 by Sep]

Originally posted by Thinker
I have no idea who are the MKO.

They are a terrorist group who are hated by everyone. The only person who liked them was Saddam. They attacked Iranian cities and killed civilians. They helped Saddams army break into Iran. They pretty much the closest thing to evil on this earth.

Originally posted by zurvan
so mark my words give Iranian youth some support and they will clean up the Mullahs for you/them!

[edit on 28-12-2004 by zurvan]

Your views are interesting and I am inclined to consider them. It still wouldn't be viable, or in this case even necessary for America to just walk in and invade.
If the Iranian youth hate the Mullahs, America can help them, but the way we did it in Iraq would only breed failure.

If I were calling the shots and somebody I trusted told me what you just did, I'd tell them to have the CIA get in there and organized the dissenting factions, I'd arrange weapons, air support, and special forces incursions at the appropriate times and provide whatever America could. The only thing I would not want to do is take the Iranian face off of this revolution or try to dictate the form of government which came next. Afterall, once the Mullahs are out of power the students will want to do things their way as the new leaders of a sovreign nation, and there would be backlash if America couldn't quickly step back and say "its your country again".

The war in Iraq is being fought directly from the Vietnam playbook. It's a loosing strategy. We're just lucky that the enemy is not such a vast majority and has less foreign support in this case, or Iraq would be almost exactly like Vietnam.

you are right the form of government after Mullahs is a reality that is not discussed much. I personally think we should revert back to our old/only legal constitution and go from there. under old constitution Iran was a constitutional monarchy. Parliament had the power to change all law including the Shah/Monarch. So from there if majority doesn't like monarchy then they can change it through Parliament and referendums. Thank god the current Monarch of Iran supports the same ideology .

I personally think that constitutional monarchy is the best form of government for a traditional society. If we were a new country/settelement then we could just have a democracy but we are not and I personally am not into throwing all the history into the rubbish bin!

my ideal form of government.

Constitutional Monarchy:


supreme leader (elected every 10 years and only people who have been .........................president or king can qualify to stand for this position)

Day to day government run by:
executive headed by:president
Parliament:
Judiciary

simple ha? Supreme leader will have the ultimate say/veto(just like the old king) but of course he is in charge of the prestige of the country and would leave every day operations to president.

and everything else is text book government. you would have the separation of the forces.

why not I have a good feeling that this will one day happen in Iran.

bedrud,
Z.

Didn't the Aghan people sort of want their old king back and get told no? I'm guessing you will know more about that than I do, so feel free to inform me.

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Didn't the Aghan people sort of want their old king back and get told no? I'm guessing you will know more about that than I do, so feel free to inform me.

Aghan people who are they?

The people who live in Afghanistan. I suppose the term Afghani might be more appropriate- I've heard both.

I personally am all, for a republic in Iran. We saw what happened the last time a king had power. And we should write up a new constitution. The first one was pretty much a total failure.

Originally posted by Sep
I personally am all, for a republic in Iran. We saw what happened the last time a king had power. And we should write up a new constitution. The first one was pretty much a total failure.

what iranian constitution are you talking about? I think you are getting the wrong version!

bedrud,

Originally posted by S7ranger
Nothing will help iran if US or Israel decides to destroy the reactor.. pretty much, they can just bombard iran with hundreds of cruise missiles.

I don't think there will be an attack on Iran's reactor, else Israel will experience something called 'Sunburn', which is what is currently keeping us far from Taiwan and North Korea and Iran now...

Z how come you are not in Middle East Defence Forum any more??