How can any American be a proud, patriotic citizen?

USA USA. USA. USA. USA. USA. USA

I will not participate in your subtle and insidious hatred of my Country.

We're America....We are 12-2

🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

a reply to: Greathouse

Why does a question need to have some kind of cynical taste behind it to you? Again, it was a question. Both regarding some cultural differences in which I don't understand. Am I not allowed to ask questions here?

a reply to: Ghost147

However, America and it's American people are very well known for their absolute love for their country (generally speaking of course).

Here is where you need to learn the difference...

I as an American am proud of my country and take pride in being an American...but when it comes to those who are running this country there is no pride there.

There is a difference.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I see. The way I viewed Patriotism was in the country as a whole. Thank you for addressing my question without insulting me for asking it

a reply to: Ghost147

I tend to noticed when people are myopic and fixed on certain issues . Add a dash of denial and we have the substance for most of your anti-American threads .

a reply to: Ghost147

It's just that some Americans make it excessively apparent that they would do anything and accept anything that their country has to offer.

And doesn't that happen in every country on Earth...I bet it does, even in the Great White North of Canada.

Speaking as a brit. i think the Americans patriotic spirit is a good thing if a touch OTT now and then.
there is a great deal for Americans to be justly proud of in the USA.
Problem is there is also a lot to be ashamed of as well racism and poverty being Two of the worse
there is absolutely no justifiable excuse for them any more.
still i think most other countries are just as patriotic they just dont wear it as openly as American people.

Most of the 'questionable' acts committed against people now trace back to one source 'profit'
whether by government or corporation it all traces back to some person or group manipulating things
to create expand or exploit a market defence and pharma im looking at you.

a reply to: Greathouse

Think whatever you wish, I had no ill intent in the thread. Nevertheless, someone more respectful than you has actually addressed my question in the OP.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Actually, I don't really see any of it here in Canada. Perhaps it's just a lack of personal experience. I don't know anyone that owns a Canadian flag, and we don't sing the anthem or pledge allegiance in the schools I've been to. Not to say it doesn't happen at all, I just haven't witnessed it at any particular scale.

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

But arguably, the US is doing many of the most empire like, colonial actions NOW.

First of all most of the claims in the OP referred to the past not NOW. If you want to look at the past American actions pale in comparison to the British Empire .

You missed my point. I stated that many countries have done all manners of bad things in the past. Take the Roman Empire and Italy. Take the USSR.

However, much worse is when a country is doing really horrible things NOW. The US takes the cake for negative actions NOW.

My point stands actually stronger than the past comments. We are speaking to whether someone can be nationalist or prideful NOW.

It's just like, there is a big difference between judging someone who stole as a heroin addict 30 years ago but cleaned up and made amends versus someone who is stealing from you NOW.

a reply to: Ghost147

I see. The way I viewed Patriotism was in the country as a whole. Thank you for addressing my question without insulting me for asking it

That is how most who don't live here see things, because they see us as being proud Americans they think we agree with what our government says and does.

And that is far from being the truth. I have no reason to insult you, as this is just a misnomer that has been put on the American people.

Don't get me wrong we are a proud country...we just aren't always proud of those who run it.

originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: Greathouse

Perhaps you didn't read my post. But I clearly stated that I understand every country has their issues. It's just that some Americans make it excessively apparent that they would do anything and accept anything that their country has to offer.

please be more careful before you respond.

look, I agree with you that there are some Americans like that. but, everyone needs to live somewhere in some country, and it is usually where they were born. outside of the scenario of tens of millions of Americans picking up a gun, and collectively marching on Washington D.C. to force political change, it's pretty much the wealthy and corporate that control, or at least influence, the outcomes of a countries treatment to it's own people, and those that are outside of the associated country.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I did not miss your point. What you failed to address is the moves we are making now to correct things we did in the past. But it seems American haters only want to focus on the past .

a reply to: Ghost147

I get the disrespectful claim pretty often when I point out actual facts don't worry I'm used to it .

a reply to: Ghost147

I don't know anyone that owns a Canadian flag, and we don't sing the anthem or pledge allegiance in the schools I've been to.

Those are just things that are there to show others that you have pride...Real pride comes from inside and doesn't always have to be shown.

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: Greathouse

Perhaps you didn't read my post. But I clearly stated that I understand every country has their issues. It's just that some Americans make it excessively apparent that they would do anything and accept anything that their country has to offer.

please be more careful before you respond.

look, I agree with you that there are some Americans like that. but, everyone needs to live somewhere in some country, and it is usually where they were born. outside of the scenario of tens of millions of Americans picking up a gun, and collectively marching on Washington D.C. to force political change, it's pretty much the wealthy and corporate that control, or at least influence, the outcomes of a countries treatment to it's own people, and those that are outside of the associated country.

I agree with you that a misconception that both many Americans and foreigners have is that Americans are actually still in control, that we have a functioning democracy, and so on. In reality, we don't. Hence, we aren't really choosing these actions by the government.

I certainly have been protesting such things as endless wars and the NSA. Hasn't done much.

So yes, it is wrong to judge all Americans based on the government.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Yes, I understand.

My misunderstanding came from a woman I dated in Chicago for a while. Perhaps it's just the vicinity of where she lived, but many people had American flags everywhere and once they knew that I was Canadian tended to drill me on my perspective of America and state their own patriotism. So those personal incidences and the way America is generally viewed as from a media-based perspective only reassured me of that misnomer.

Fortunately, there are those who will readily correct misinformation

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: Ghost147

I get the disrespectful claim pretty often when I point out actual facts don't worry I'm used to it .

Congratulations on your success for incorrectly assuming everyone who questions any part of anything secretly hates it.

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I did not miss your point. What you failed to address is the moves we are making now to correct things we did in the past. But it seems American haters only want to focus on the past .

We are NOT making moves to correct the foreign policy excesses we made in the past, period. No government official has apologized for removing democratically elected officials in Iran and Latin America, then installing iron-fisted puppet dictators for the benefit of US corporations...

Nobody has held Bush accountable nor apologized for the Iraq War and 200,000 civilian dead and almost 10,000 American soldiers dead. Nobody has held the CIA nor Bush admin accountable for the war crime of torture, which is fully admitted.

Nobody has been held accountable nor given reparations to the scores of foreign citizens held without trial for years, and also often tortured.

In fact, it is the opposite, the US gov under Obama is fully engaging in covert ops in such places as Libya and SYria, trying to regime change our opponents.

I do agree that some efforts have been made to remedy the past of racism here in the US, and a few other domestic sins.

With all due respect, you fit into what the op is talking about, patriotism and sticking one's head in the sand about what one's country is doing.

I hold, and invite you to think on this, that a true patriot educates themselves on these realities and then will hold their government accountable for violations of ethics, human rights, universal freedoms, and American principles. Our foreign policy violates all of those.

a reply to: Ghost147

Yes my claims about your position are baseless as apparent in another one of your threads .

ATS thread


I really don't have a problem with people to disapprove of America. My problem lays with people that have a track record of it and are incapable of being honest about their opinions .