Wage Required to Afford a 2-Bedroom Rental in Every State

originally posted by: Aazadan
I don't know precisely how they did it since I haven't read the methodology paper, but I can tell you how to do it.

For each county in the US take an average of advertised rents.

Already wrong. That would include rental properties that are worth millions, and has nothing to do with the number you are looking for.

What I did was look at how much rent is in areas I KNOW are good safe neighborhoods, and then x3. That's already a horrible way to do it since food is not 1/3 of your income, but even using that method the numbers used here are WAY OFF and 2 people living in a 2br apt. at minimum wage can afford it.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

By doing more than living paycheck to paycheck? How well do your supposed duo survive a crisis?

I saw earlier in the thread someone had actually suggested that a person working minimum wage 40 hours a week doesn't deserve to live independently. I wonder, why don't they deserve to live independently? What makes them less deserving than you?

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
I saw earlier in the thread someone had actually suggested that a person working minimum wage 40 hours a week doesn't deserve to live independently. I wonder, why don't they deserve to live independently? What makes them less deserving than you?

The world is far too lost. It's to late for humanity.

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
I saw earlier in the thread someone had actually suggested that a person working minimum wage 40 hours a week doesn't deserve to live independently. I wonder, why don't they deserve to live independently? What makes them less deserving than you?

The world is far too lost. It's to late for humanity.

I still have hope. We're slowly, but surely, evolving into a post-scarcity society. With automation, artificial intelligence, driverless cars, and all the innovations that science brings us, less and less jobs are around for people to actually work. Couple that with the U.S. outsourcing boatloads of jobs, and you have 55 year old people with a Master's degree serving you fries at the drive thru, wondering what the hell happened.

It's a painful process, but I feel a basic income will probably be on the table in the next decade, if not, the next 20 years for certain.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
I saw earlier in the thread someone had actually suggested that a person working minimum wage 40 hours a week doesn't deserve to live independently. I wonder, why don't they deserve to live independently? What makes them less deserving than you?

Because those who feel they worked harder have to be able to feel superior in some way. Despite their usual 'dependence on government is evil' rhetoric they still secretly delight in believing that those who didn't have the same opportunities as them are suffering.

originally posted by: corvuscorrax

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
I saw earlier in the thread someone had actually suggested that a person working minimum wage 40 hours a week doesn't deserve to live independently. I wonder, why don't they deserve to live independently? What makes them less deserving than you?

Because those who feel they worked harder have to be able to feel superior in some way. Despite their usual 'dependence on government is evil' rhetoric they still secretly delight in believing that those who didn't have the same opportunities as them are suffering.

I think it's mainly due to differences in upbringing, and the problem of talent.

Not everyone is talented, not everyone was brought up in an environment that fostered education and bettering yourself. I count myself among the lucky few who despite being brought in rather poor environment, I had talent that sparked my desire to learn. Because of this, I'm able to learn and have a career that's rewarding and well compensating. People can only view things in the scope of their own experience. If they see someone making minimum wage at 35 they immediately think "I did it, why can't they? They must be lazy." when that isn't necessarily true. Some people just lack the talent, or the drive, or the intelligence, or the upbringing to truly succeed in life. Does that make them less valuable humans?

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: corvuscorrax

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
I saw earlier in the thread someone had actually suggested that a person working minimum wage 40 hours a week doesn't deserve to live independently. I wonder, why don't they deserve to live independently? What makes them less deserving than you?

Because those who feel they worked harder have to be able to feel superior in some way. Despite their usual 'dependence on government is evil' rhetoric they still secretly delight in believing that those who didn't have the same opportunities as them are suffering.

I think it's mainly due to differences in upbringing, and the problem of talent.

Not everyone is talented, not everyone was brought up in an environment that fostered education and bettering yourself. I count myself among the lucky few who despite being brought in rather poor environment, I had talent that sparked my desire to learn. Because of this, I'm able to learn and have a career that's rewarding and well compensating. People can only view things in the scope of their own experience. If they see someone making minimum wage at 35 they immediately think "I did it, why can't they? They must be lazy." when that isn't necessarily true. Some people just lack the talent, or the drive, or the intelligence, or the upbringing to truly succeed in life. Does that make them less valuable humans?

To those who say people working 40 hrs on minimum wage don't deserve to be independent? Yes they believe that makes them less valuable as humans.

I feel for what you're saying. I have the talent and the intelligence. I lack the drive and ambition.

Thank god or godlike figure I have a family that adores me for who I am and see value in me beyond the amount of money I have.

a reply to: corvuscorrax

I understand, I really do. When I was growing up, I had a lot of hurdles. When I saw one of those hurdles all I could think about was how to overcome it and move on to the next one. My friends, though... Some of them got those hurdles and they just froze up. Either afraid to jump for fear of failure, or simply unable to through lack of talent.

I can't look down on those people who freeze at those hurdles. Just because I did it, doesn't mean everyone can. That doesn't decrease their worth. It's what makes them part of who they are.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Here's the reason. Most people judge themselves relative to the others in their life. If everyone they know is making $7.45/hour but they're making $10 they believe themselves to be doing well. Similarly, if they're making $25 but the company they keep makes $50 they don't think of themselves as doing well.

Because if this, if a person sees someone at a lower level of income being independent, being able to buy something, afford food, or anything else it detracts from that persons sense of self worth because the gap between them and the lowest class has shrunk. That gap reassures a person that they've made the right choices in life, and that they're productive and living the American dream.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Xtrozero

What giant corp pays minimum wage

Xtro, are you serious? McDonalds, Walmart, Target, Macy's/Bloomingdale's, Wendy's, KenTacoHut (KFC/Taco Bell/Pizza Hut - YUM! Foods), Sears/K-mart, Olive Garden/Red Lobster/Longhorn Steakhouse (Darden Restaurants), IHOP/Applebee's (DineEquity), Burger King, Penney's, Starbucks and not in that order.Salaries in $ (USD)

I agree Walmart sucks and I do not even shop there though I know people who work there and think it is great, but the average floor worker there is paid over 9 bucks an hour...that is a good chunk above minimum wage, as example...

Also do you see a place like a taco bell down the street from where you live as a big corp or small business?

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Xtrozero

Most small businesses have tight margins, do you know what that means?

Yes, I do. Thanks for asking.

So what happens to business that can not pay higher without losing its little margin that it does maintain when it is forced to do it by a large mandatory increase to minimum wage?

originally posted by: Xtrozero
I agree Walmart sucks and I do not even shop there though I know people who work there and think it is great, but the average floor worker there is paid over 9 bucks an hour...that is a good chunk above minimum wage, as example...

Also do you see a place like a taco bell down the street from where you live as a big corp or small business?

Going by the pricing data here, even $9/hour doesn't purchase a 1 bedroom, or even a shared 2 bedroom within the 30% of income threshold.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
So what happens to business that can not pay higher without losing its little margin that it does maintain when it is forced to do it by a large mandatory increase to minimum wage?

They go out of business, which is precisely why you can't raise minimum wage in large increments, you need to limit it to a small percentage above the rate of inflation annually over a long period of time.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I agree Walmart sucks and I do not even shop there though I know people who work there and think it is great,

Good. They're happy to have a job.

but the average floor worker there is paid over 9 bucks an hour...that is a good chunk above minimum wage, as example...

OMG! A whole almost $2 more?

Also do you see a place like a taco bell down the street from where you live as a big corp or small business?

Depends on whether it's a franchisee or a 'corporate' store. Recently, the McDonalds 'corporate store' employees got raises. The workers at franchise shops did not.

BTW, I applied online for a job at my LOCAL taco bell -
only response I got was "oh, sorry, yeah, you don't meet our needs."

ok, I should not even have posted this....
goodnight, you folks!!!!!

a reply to: Aazadan

I won't cry or lose any of my sleep if a Taco Bell franchise goes out of business.

Oh it's local right?

Well the store owner can get involved in owning a local Italian restauraunt where e actually has to actively participate in providing a quality product that the community appreciates. Tons of those around town and they are flourishing. Seems like the managers and most of the staff does ok too.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Aazadan

I won't cry or lose any of my sleep if a Taco Bell franchise goes out of business.

Oh it's local right?

Well the store owner can get involved in owning a local Italian restauraunt where e actually has to actively participate in providing a quality product that the community appreciates. Tons of those around town and they are flourishing. Seems like the managers and most of the staff does ok too.

So we pick and choose for them, sorry don't like your restaurant so you can go bankrupt, Also don't bet that local restaurant can afford much more.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

BTW, I applied online for a job at my LOCAL taco bell -
only response I got was "oh, sorry, yeah, you don't meet our needs."

ok, I should not even have posted this....
goodnight, you folks!!!!!

Where do you live?

When I retired from the military people asked me "where are you going to retire to" I said any place a job takes me, and many seemed puzzled by that reply. I think there are a lot of places in America that either have no jobs or the competition is extremely steep, I went where there was neither these issues.

originally posted by: Aazadan
Going by the pricing data here, even $9/hour doesn't purchase a 1 bedroom, or even a shared 2 bedroom within the 30% of income threshold.

I think many here have kind of raised the BS flag on the pricing, but why are you and others suggesting that minimum wage should be a wage where a person can live totally independently when the rest of the world is not like that. Total independent living is a desire not a right. It is the point you realize you are finally getting to a level of employment point that you start control your life, and I'm sorry but to think it can be economically feasible day one on your first job is not something that has ever happened.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
but why are you and others suggesting that minimum wage should be a wage where a person can live totally independently when the rest of the world is not like that.

It has to start somewhere. The world has to have a starting place.

It really strikes at my heart knowing that the world could be cured of poverty, homelessness, and hunger in less than five months...

If only greed and control was abandoned.

originally posted by: EternalSolace

If only greed and control was abandoned.

Kind of like an any colony, never mind, lots of control there, though maybe no greed. There is a reason why we humans who are slow, soft and weak are where we are, and it is not all brain power. We are one truly mean ass animal no matter how we try to act.

Nothing like 7 billion people, more than rats and mice combine....People pop out babies without a thought and expect the system to take care of them. Well hopefully in a 100 years we fix that part and get the population on this earth to a level where your Utopia can take form.