Melbourne mother crippled by flu jab

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: Dark Ghost

and WHOOOSH - the goal posts moved .

didnt expect that in an anti vax thread

ok - using your new definition - is pennecillin safe ?

Um, how exactly did the goal posts move?

I can see the game you are trying to play and I have no desire to participate.

If you believe that vaccines are relatively safe and the risk they pose is of minor significance compared to potential net gain, then you are free to believe so.

Conspiracies are notoriously difficult to prove but they are not as difficult to research. Time to put aside your scepticism and utilise those critical thinking skills.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

you rewrote your definition of " safe "

that was dishonest

running away and spitting your dummy out - is predictable

originally posted by: Bedlam
EVERYTHING is risky, to some extent.

Except that you ignore how many "incidents happen with vaccines.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Question is what are the odds of having a more serious reaction from Influenza if you are not vaccinated. Which is more likely?

I personally wouldn't trust you to tell me the sky is blue.

originally posted by: BentBone

originally posted by: Bedlam
EVERYTHING is risky, to some extent.

Except that you ignore how many "incidents happen with vaccines.

Except most of the alleged incidents that "happen with vaccines" aren't anything to do with the vaccines.
That's one of the issues isn't it?

a reply to: BentBone

ok - i will bite - now many inncidents happen with vaccines ?????

a reply to: Dark Ghost
Other sources describe this as Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS). This is a known complication of both influenza and the influenza vaccine. A large study (N=4.8 million) found an increased risk of GBS after influenza hospitalization, but no increased risk after vaccination. Another study found no significant correlation between vaccine coverage and GBS incidence. A meta-analysis did find a slightly increased risk of GBS occurring after influenza vaccination.

So this kind of thing is possible, maybe, but so rare it tends to disappear into the background noise. Preventable illness and death due to influenza are many orders of magnitude greater than the worst-case interpretation of the vaccine-GBS link.

For a 33 BILLION dollar industry, one paralyzed women is small potatoes. Come on down, folks! Your kids first!

originally posted by: Pardon?

originally posted by: BentBone

originally posted by: Bedlam
EVERYTHING is risky, to some extent.

Except that you ignore how many "incidents happen with vaccines.

Except most of the alleged incidents that "happen with vaccines" aren't anything to do with the vaccines.
That's one of the issues isn't it?

Really now ?? Care to offer any proof that the vaccines have nothing to do with anything ???

Of course not, every OTHER thing people consume must be the problem, it could never be the INJECTED cocktails causing all sorts of adverse reactions that mimic and conflagrate other conditions.

In your eyes, those who have side effects are all liars, schizos, etc

The issues are clear, no ACTUAL consensus can be reached, because the bodies systems are insanely complicated.

Millions of people in North America alone have all manner of conditions that are NOT being cured, and you want to tell us that these vaccines in no way have contributed to NEW and MISUNDERSTOOD PROBLEMS ???

Not to mention, someone like me who was able to identify my throbbing arm and immediate hospitalization for TWO MONTHS with all manner of breathing problems and immune disfunctions, which have now disappeared because I DO NOT do what doctors tell me is good for me, is thriving now and can connect the dots better than the crazies on the net, better than the crazies calling themselves doctors, and can actually read scientific reports on all kinds of weird unsolvable diseases and get people treatments that WORK when no one else will ??

Frankly, I think vaccines can work, I just do not buy the overall rush to use them, and certainly am shocked at the total denial that is STILL going on, people suffering brutally cause no one is even BOTHERING to find out about these reactions, cause they would rather be lazy, ignorant and trust Trillionaire corporations with every facet of their lives.

originally posted by: Flesh699
For a 33 BILLION dollar industry, one paralyzed women is small potatoes. Come on down, folks! Your kids first!

The important number is not the dollar value but out of hundreds of millions of vaccinations a tiny number have had adverse effects.
And I emphasise the word "tiny". In the hundreds of thousandths of 1%
That's extremely unfortunate for the people who do react and research is continual to understand what the cause is and how to prevent further isolated incidents.
They are still safer than virtually any other medicine on the planet.
It also doesn't help that time and money is being spent on wild goose chases which are driven by anti-vax paranoia.

So it's easy to make a glib comment like yours but what is your solution?
If it's stop vaccinating will you and your ilk take responsibility for the increase in mortality rates from the flu and the massive increase of medical care costs for treating those who don't die?

Personally I believe anti-vaxxers to be the real shills for the medical industry.
After all, it cost thousands more to treat someone for an illness than it does to vaccinate them against it.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Speaking of contradictory..

A Melbourne mother believes

In addition to the fact that an otherwise normal, happy and healthy woman has now been left paralysed after having a regular flu shot

Sorry, her belief is not a fact.

originally posted by: ParasuvO

originally posted by: Pardon?

originally posted by: BentBone

originally posted by: Bedlam
EVERYTHING is risky, to some extent.

Except that you ignore how many "incidents happen with vaccines.

Except most of the alleged incidents that "happen with vaccines" aren't anything to do with the vaccines.
That's one of the issues isn't it?

Really now ?? Care to offer any proof that the vaccines have nothing to do with anything ???

Of course not, every OTHER thing people consume must be the problem, it could never be the INJECTED cocktails causing all sorts of adverse reactions that mimic and conflagrate other conditions.

In your eyes, those who have side effects are all liars, schizos, etc

The issues are clear, no ACTUAL consensus can be reached, because the bodies systems are insanely complicated.

Millions of people in North America alone have all manner of conditions that are NOT being cured, and you want to tell us that these vaccines in no way have contributed to NEW and MISUNDERSTOOD PROBLEMS ???

Not to mention, someone like me who was able to identify my throbbing arm and immediate hospitalization for TWO MONTHS with all manner of breathing problems and immune disfunctions, which have now disappeared because I DO NOT do what doctors tell me is good for me, is thriving now and can connect the dots better than the crazies on the net, better than the crazies calling themselves doctors, and can actually read scientific reports on all kinds of weird unsolvable diseases and get people treatments that WORK when no one else will ??

Frankly, I think vaccines can work, I just do not buy the overall rush to use them, and certainly am shocked at the total denial that is STILL going on, people suffering brutally cause no one is even BOTHERING to find out about these reactions, cause they would rather be lazy, ignorant and trust Trillionaire corporations with every facet of their lives.

Surely those who make the allegations need to offer proof other than testimonials on anti-vax sites.
Proof of causation that is.
And not some bizarre Dunning-Kruger fuelled one either.

There are very rare severe adverse events caused by vaccines (I'm sure I've mentioned that before...) but certainly not in the frequency some people would have you think.

I've said it numerous times in other threads but if you can show me scientific proof of reproducible harm caused by vaccines other than allergic reactions I'll quite happily change what I know.
As yet, that proof hasn't been provided.
Simply saying "I know they cause harm because I know better than than everyone else" doesn't really hold much sway.
In fact, saying that makes me believe you think you know much more than you do and therefore your words are pretty much meaningless.

originally posted by: Dark Ghost

A Melbourne mother believes a routine flu shot left her crippled and trapped in her own body.

Once a happy and loving mother of three, Kathy Watson Jones was left paralysed by a rare condition, where the body's immune system attacks the nervous system.

"I can't even feed myself," she told 7News.

"I can't wipe my face, can't blow my nose, I can't do anything."

The 45-year-old claims her body started to shut down the day she was given a flu shot at her work.

(Story)

In addition to the fact that an otherwise normal, happy and healthy woman has now been left paralysed after having a regular flu shot, what concerns me about this story are the following two seemingly contradictory sentences:

Medical experts say there is no evidence to suggest her condition was caused by the vaccine.

They say it does happen to 'one in a million' who have the influenza jab but it should not deter anyone from being vaccinated.

WTF!

There is a risk that you may become paralysed as a result of taking a flu jab, but you should still have it anyway?

REALLY?

IF vaccines are not 100% safe then they should not be commercially available.

Cue the hard-line pro-vaccine crowd, telling me how "I don't understand science" and how "the minuscule risk is worth it for the amount of lives (supposedly) saved".

One thing I should have mentioned earlier is that the reason a story like this makes the papers is because of its rarity.
If this happened more it wouldn't be a news-worthy story.

I mean, how many stories do you get of individuals dying from the 'flu and it's complications...?

a reply to: Pardon?

Yeah, it's just MSM fear mongering.

I found this study which I think is on topic:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

I don't trust vaccines! Every year my Doctor tells me I should have the Flu Vaccine as I'm an Asthma sufferer. Every year I tell him no way in hell! And every Flu season I never get Flu.

My Brother get's the Flu Vaccine every year and tells me I'm an idiot for not getting it. And guess what? He get's the Flu and or Glandular Fever every year and is off work for 2 - 3 weeks every time.

He just doesn't get it. The Flu Vaccine does not stop you getting Flu. But not having the Vaccine does stop you getting Flu.

And the ingredients in that vaccine and all vaccines are scary. Taking a Vaccine is like playing Russian Roulette. A 1 in 6 chance of blowing your head off!

There are so many independent reports of babies dying and or being mentally damaged after receiving their shots. But you will notice none of these stories make it to the Mainstream Media! I wonder why!

a reply to: Nova937

But not having the Vaccine does stop you getting Flu.

Uhh, I don't think you get it either..

Do you really think that people who DON'T get a flu vaccine, don't get the flu???

I've never had a flu vaccine and I caught the flu last year.

How does that work, using your logic?

a reply to: Chadwickus

Well based on my experience of not having the Vaccine and my family's experience we never get the Flu Vaccine and also never get the Flu. Maybe you have a compromised immune system. I don't know!

I just know that my siblings and my Mother get the vaccine every year and they get the Flu every year.

You never know. I just know my family and I are safer not taking the vaccine!

a reply to: Nova937

So your basing your opinion on a handful of people?

Extremely unscientific I must say..

That does explain the Russian roulette comments though, I guess.

There is a risk with every medication, vaccines included, even with over the counter painkillers: Paracetamol, for example, in very rare cases can produce side effects such as blood disorders (thrombocytopenia, leucopenia, et) and tachycardia (from my own BNF, the British Pharmaceutical reference book published by the British Medical Association and used by doctors and nurses to prescribe/administer medication).

However, this lady developed Guillain-Barre Syndrome which has been found not to have a link with vaccines:

In a retrospective study spanning 13 years and more than 30 million person-years, researchers found no evidence of an increased risk for Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) after vaccinations of any type, including influenza vaccination.
"GBS is an acute inflammatory polyradiculoneuropathy affecting primarily motor neurons, which in severe cases can progress to complete paralysis and even death," write Dr. Baxter and colleagues in an article published online April 11 and in the July 15 issue of Clinical Infectious Diseases.

Estimates of GBS incidence are in the range of 1-2 cases per 100,000 person-years worldwide and increase with age," cite the authors. Causes of the syndrome are unknown, but are thought to involve an autoimmune process triggered by antigenic stimulation that results in demyelination and destruction of peripheral nerves, the authors explain.

About two thirds of cases are preceded by a gastrointestinal or respiratory infection, with Campylobacter enteritis being the most common trigger. Also implicated are influenza, cytomegalovirus, Epstein-Barr virus, HIV, and Mycoplasma pneumonia.

Case reports have linked a variety of vaccine types to GBS. The only clear association, however, has been with the 1976 A/New Jersey swine influenza vaccine, when a small but significant increase in the number of GBS cases was seen 6 weeks after vaccination. Since that time, investigations have shown either no risk or a very small attributable risk of GBS in roughly 1 case per million doses. More recently, studies assessing the risk of GBS after the 2009 H1N1 monovalent influenza vaccines in the United States found a slightly higher attributable risk ranging from 1 to 5 per million doses.

The researchers also found no cases of GBS resulting from vaccines given mainly in childhood, despite the large number of doses given. These included the oral polio vaccine (1.2 million doses), measles-mumps-rubella (1.6 million), conjugated pneumococcal (1.3 million), live attenuated influenza (69,000), diphtheria-tetanus-acellular pertussis (1.9 million), varicella (764,000), Haemophilus-diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis (525,000), and Haemophilus B vaccines (1.2 million).

Here is the link to the article: cid.oxfordjournals.org...

originally posted by: Nova937
I don't trust vaccines! Every year my Doctor tells me I should have the Flu Vaccine as I'm an Asthma sufferer. Every year I tell him no way in hell! And every Flu season I never get Flu.

My Brother get's the Flu Vaccine every year and tells me I'm an idiot for not getting it. And guess what? He get's the Flu and or Glandular Fever every year and is off work for 2 - 3 weeks every time.

He just doesn't get it. The Flu Vaccine does not stop you getting Flu. But not having the Vaccine does stop you getting Flu.

And the ingredients in that vaccine and all vaccines are scary. Taking a Vaccine is like playing Russian Roulette. A 1 in 6 chance of blowing your head off!

There are so many independent reports of babies dying and or being mentally damaged after receiving their shots. But you will notice none of these stories make it to the Mainstream Media! I wonder why!

Just because you're scared of something means absolutely nothing to anyone else

Because they're false?