You Have No Idea What Happened (We get many details wrong when recalling past memories)

a reply to: funbox

Perhaps it has happened to deaf / blind people also, there could be research about that somewhere.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

you would think it would be a major feature in the reports so far generated , a description of events from the perspective of one that cannot see or hear, someone who is paralysed etc etc,

im sure even the accounts taken by reporters and low level enthusiasts would surface eventually , the descriptions of the encounters being that unique, surely they would stick out like a bug in mash potatoes.

asides from a vague recollection previously mentioned , ive managed to find nothing


surely someone knows of a case... anyone ?

funbox

a reply to: funbox

have you ever heard of an abduction case involving the blind , deaf or disabled ?

No, but I have told my abduction accounts to a few skeptics that must have been blind and deaf.

I'm joking, but just slightly.

a reply to: Scdfa

well, if its true, to me it a disturbing abnormality in the human condition , even just looking at the disabled alone, statistically their should be a report made, the physically disabled are as mentally capable and subject to the same mental stimulus's as any abled bodied ,

fabrication should be a part of that statistic I think

haha btw

funbox

a reply to: funbox

it is unusual , but lets ascribe one of our favourite theories , sleep paralysis.. now , im no expert but im pretty sure the disabled, and the blind would still suffer from these ailments , yet there seems to be a hole in the data

As I understand it, SP wouldn't necessarily be the only cause. More like a possible ingredient. The links I provided earlier show how it would be the distortion of memory that is the culprit. In other words, an SP episode would just be a trigger or the source for the memory and there could be other triggers. That's how I understand the explanation. I have had bouts of Sleep Paralysis but never an abduction experience and I can attest to the bizarreness. Last one was a month or so ago which was an odd experience.

The more I think about it, I bet the reasoning that you don't hear about it would be biased sampling. Check the "Roper poll". Not sure if they excluded the populations that you are describing.

It also might be more fruitful to seek out clinical studies involving the deaf, blind and hallucinations, not alien abduction.

Also, the deaf and blind are likely going to already be under the care of a physician, so any complaints concerning weird # happening during sleep would be compared against the sequelae reported to be involved in sleep-disorders related to the temporal lobes, frontal lobes, and REM abnormalities.

Not alien abduction.

a reply to: Bybyots

well their physicians must have some unnerving grip upon there wills , if not a single story of a blind or deaf person being abducted by aliens is floating about in reality ....exceptionally unnerving grip, tantum out to a conspiracy of silence if this is the case


thrice the charm with auto suggestion btw, so its :- "not alien abduction" ,.. "not alien abduction" ,.. "not alien abduction" ... more and people start cottoning

funbox

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

I have an almost photographic memory of some events, even from my early childhood, I can recall and see details like the texture of a wall, often events of memory to me look like a photographic image, but live, like a video.

There are definitely some exceptions. Sounds almost like synesthesia which is memory related, I think...

Just because you cannot recall your dinner last Monday doesn't mean you didn't eat that dinner

If that were the case, I would be a lot thinner

Additionally, abduction experiences often involve missing time and memory loss during that time, it is a known phenomenon, there are plenty of credible reports. Perhaps there is something that has the ability for manipulating time, space and memory that you or current scientific comprehension isn't aware of yet.

The facts are, things have happened that are beyond he normal sphere of reality, either the stuff of dimensions or dimensional beings with powers beyond human capabilities. My own experiences are something I rarely even mention these days due to the attitudes of some. I don't need to talk about it, it isn't for attention but when there are others experiencing similar things, it is good to know. The human brain tries making sense of things, it is natural to look for validation.

I am definitely torn between the "science" and the "experience". Both are valid to me. does that make any sense?

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

but then if Sp is merely the trigger , wouldn't this category of people be subject to a nearly identical l array of other physiological , and physiological misfires, that lead down same path to the abduction scenario? surely this syndrome , if it is a combination of physiological effect
is not bound to the abled bodied alone.

and given your own experiences with sp , coupled with an interest in the phenomena, be suggestive that pre-knowledge of the abduction phenomena and it tenants, is unlikely to be part of the trigger during sp ?

have you tried forcing your mind to think , abduction, or used associative imagery to link with the abduction phenomena to try an induce? , say as the paralysis starts tipping gently into Rem , that's if you have controlled the panic by now , but then ide imagine your accustomed to it .. I say ..tinker

funbox

originally posted by: Bybyots
It also might be more fruitful to seek out clinical studies involving the deaf, blind and hallucinations, not alien abduction.

Also, the deaf and blind are likely going to already be under the care of a physician, so any complaints concerning weird # happening during sleep would be compared against the sequelae reported to be involved in sleep-disorders related to the temporal lobes, frontal lobes, and REM abnormalities.

Not alien abduction.

Good point. There is Charles Bonnet syndrome
en.wikipedia.org...

Visual release hallucinations, also known as Charles Bonnet syndrome (CBS), is the experience of complex visual hallucinations in a person with partial or severe blindness. First described by Charles Bonnet in 1760,[1][2] it was first introduced into English-speaking psychiatry in 1982.[3]
Sufferers, who are mentally healthy people with often significant vision loss, have vivid, complex recurrent visual hallucinations (fictive visual percepts). One characteristic of these hallucinations is that they usually are "lilliputian" (hallucinations in which the characters or objects are smaller than normal). The most common hallucination is of faces or cartoons.[4] Sufferers understand that the hallucinations are not real, and the hallucinations are only visual, that is, they do not occur in any other senses, e.g. hearing, smell or taste.[5][6] Among older adults (> 65 years) with significant vision loss, the prevalence of Charles Bonnet syndrome has been reported to be between 10% and 40%; a recent Australian study has found the prevalence to be 17.5%.[2] Two Asian studies, however, report a much lower prevalence.[7][8] The high incidence of non-reporting of this disorder is the greatest hindrance to determining the exact prevalence; non-reporting is thought to be a result of sufferers being afraid to discuss the symptoms out of fear that they will be labelled insane.[6]

People suffering from CBS may experience a wide variety of hallucinations. Images of complex colored patterns and images of people are most common, followed by animals, plants or trees and inanimate objects. The hallucinations also often fit into the person's surroundings.[2]

I also heard a recent show on NPR? about someone describing their hallucinations associated with their dementia. Even included insectoids. Thanks for reminding me to look it up...www.npr.org...

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: TeaAndStrumpets
And here we are, 50 years later, with a whole new generation of fearful people arguing that there is STILL NO NEED to "get on to something much better" with our study of UFOs.

Who is arguing that? Certainly not me. If anything I agree with McDonald that something better than anecdotes is needed, which is one of the points of this thread, to point out one of many reasons why that is so.

If there isn't anything better for the scientists to look at than anecdotes, they aren't going to be able to do anything scientific with anecdotes.

The huge amount of witness testimony does produce more than anecdotes. Yea but if someone needs a tailfin to start thats another ball game.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

Gregs 'insectoids' turned out to be spiders , is this the nearest were going to get ? someone with Alzheimer's whose seen a few too many Harry potter films

not really the kind of case I was hoping to hear

funbox

a reply to: funbox

but then if Sp is merely the trigger , wouldn't this category of people be subject to a nearly identical l array of other physiological , and physiological misfires, that lead down same path to the abduction scenario, and top the ears of others?

I don't see why not.

and given your own experiences with sp , coupled with an interest in the phenomena, be suggestive that pre-knowledge of the abduction phenomena and it tenants, is unlikely to be part of the trigger during sp ?

I think I understand what you are saying. I had my first episode when I was around 19 or 20 and I had been already well indoctrinated into the world of psychology. The idea is that someone who has an SP episode for the first time and doesn't know what to make of it and due to whatever pre existing beliefs or whatever would come to believe they were abducted. For me though, and I was well aware of abduction accounts at an early age, I thought I was having a seizure. It was this loud electrical noise and the feeling of being paralyzed that was really disturbing. My job at the time was, in fact, working with mentally disabled children and I was working particularly close with one person who would stiffen up like a board and drop and turn blue on me on a weekly basis. There is no doubt that that is why I thought I was having a seizure. I even recall having that image in my mind. I was also in college taking random pych courses and I know I came across the sp info. In later years I had sleep studies...etc., so abductions were not really associated with the sp.

have you tried forcing your mind to think , abduction, or used associative imagery to link with the abduction phenomena to try an induce? ,

You Bet! it was an absolute failure though. a few years back, prior to joining here, I was really into the whole abduction phenomenon, this was even prior to my "Jacobs distain". I was binge watching every abduction show and reading about as many accounts as I could. I was waiting for my next episode of sp to happen and I was absolutely positive I would have an abduction experience...well one night the buzzing started and all and...I totally freaked out and snapped out of it!
I pretty much stopped having them since then. The last one I had, I wrote up recently and it included some "experiments".

say as the paralysis starts tipping gently into Rem , that's if you have controlled the panic by now , but then ide imagine your accustomed to it .. I say ..tinker

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: funbox

Gregs 'insectoids' turned out to be spiders

He was going into more detail in the show...maybe I only "remembered" insectoids...

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

ah well at least you tried, o btw I edited my post , 'topping the ears of others' makes no sense , unless its a metaphor I've unconsciously ingested

funbox

just like to add ,*before I step into the darkness* thanks for being so hospitable to the derailment Arbitrageur, and do you know of any cases made by the aforementioned?


funbox

originally posted by: funbox

thanks for being so hospitable to the derailment Arbitrageur,

Same. more on topic...

I found this today: Alterations in Recollection of Unusual and Unexpected Events

One of the authors, Elizabeth F. Loftus, has for some years been investigating the circumstances under which information received subsequent to a complex natural event, such as an accident or a crime, causes systematic and predictable changes in witnesses' recollections of the event (seeLoftus, 1979, for a review of this research). Sightings of unidentified flying objects (UFOs) and of unknown or rare animal species (the topic of cryptozoology) are in some ways very similar to the witnessing of a crime or of an accident. In particular, crimes, accidents, UFOs, and unidentifiable animals are all phenomena that present considerable challenges to accurate perception, interpretation, and recall.
In the present paper, we first very briefly review some recent findings on the alteration of human recollection. This review is necessarily less than comprehensive, but we hope that it gives at least the flavor of recent research. Next, we suggest some applications of recent recollection change research to the evaluation of reports from persons who claim to have witnessed anomalous events, such as the appearance of UFOs.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian
Thanks for posting that very relevant paper!

It mentions that the three years which elapsed from Betty Hill's "abduction experience" to her first recollection of the event is probably too long a time period for her memory to be reliable, and also discusses the problems with the use of hypnosis to recall such memories. The paper goes on to suggest that to get the most accurate recollections, interviewing the witness within 30 minutes of the event would be preferred.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

The paper goes on to suggest that to get the most accurate recollections, interviewing the witness within 30 minutes of the event would be preferred.

I would even suggest that witnesses not wait at all. We all have cell phones and they can do all kinds of things. Even if you cant get a picture, why not record yourself and the surrounding area as soon as possible after a sighting?

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

That's a great suggestion! Cell phones are wonderful tech and now that they are ubiquitous, there's no reason to not use them as you suggest, though I think there are a handful of monks in Tibet who don't have a cell phone yet. But for everyone else who has one, put it to good use as you suggest. Unfortunately the cameras often leave something to be desired for taking UFO pictures with typically no real telephoto lens, but they could certainly record your surroundings as you suggest.