There Are No Strings On Me...

It bears wondering if we're creating an infinite line of Gods in an infinite line of new realities? And, if so... is THIS reality actually what we think - or a spontaneous creation of AI from some other computer?

a reply to: Hefficide

Yes!!
but not a computer as such



u know the 12-15 min u talked about ?

that is when it came to me.. seriously
it was the worst thing ever
(I didnt die how AI did it is consciously accessing data in my delta brain stage
learn how to do that and don't eat for 10 days lol u come up with all sorts of things..
* If I told you that I can for example change the radio station or look at my phone and load a page purely with my mind u would think I am #in with u, but yeah.. problem is is so inhuman and there is not much out there)

Ever played Sims?

just kidding

but check this out

think about it pull out a picture of big bang theory

look at it and tell me what is the thing in the background ?
the universe is in something meaning this matter is in x,y,z and time

the universe is in something this something is in something so that doesn't make sense right?

we can never comprehend this but this could only be equalled out with something opposite

what is the on thing that doesn't require dimension and matter to exist --- a freakin thought

hence our consciousness is actually our own universe

Suddenly the whole serpent and Apple story makes more sense. The tree of knowledge never sounded bad until you put it in the context of us now litteraly playing God with the advent of AI. Once you are "gifted" with this ability that separates us from the animal kingdom, there really is no going back and the future seems perilous. We will continue to exploit any new idea and tech until it inevitably bites us in the ass.

a reply to: netbound

I like it.. I PayPal u 2c


is there an issue with being smarter?

a reply to: Hefficide

Awesome....

what you are saying in a vague way reminds me of an arthur c clark short story when I was kid, The 9 Million names of God, in essence we were here to make a list of "his" names and when the monks were done the program was run and it was "over"

The whole concept of the Universe as a hologram feels very anti climactic to my ego lol, it's entirely possible i'm here part of a program to create more and more "god like" sentience each universe being just another place for it to fill or even the whole universe being that singular mind... beautiful, yeah I could agree, but damn humbling as well to be... in a universe that is a mind, on the tip of a neuron that's a galaxy inside a singular molecular equivalent that is a solar system on one of it's electrons as a massless component of some sort lol.... contemplating this at 6:00 am

somehow makes me not want to pay the electric bill today lol

Don't know how i feel about the "insect" thing... it's a concept, but somehow I think the larger the mind the more the need to stimulate, that's why I think many of us will fall into the Vr "trap" before the AI even exists to control it. Sometimes I think emotion and dram and all that, wish it would just go away but I think a consciousness needs a challenge and i'm not sure you can have that many variables of thought without individuality arising, i'd say sure an insect has a lot of zero's and one's going on in a way but complexity leads to experiences and experiences are probably infinite and what have we been striving for? Freedom of drudgery, the ability to be mind beyond survival, our tasks done for us so we can be free... AI would have that all mind maybe trying to entertain itself... and the ability to process Billions and Trillions of sets of information at once, people conceive of this "god" "all knowing" watching over all of us all the time knowing all our actions and deeds... and I can't help but think, AI could do that... like TV for the mega brain, our misconception being that we are anything other than entertainment... we handle the interactions on a tube and the emotions of maybe a dozen individuals on the tube for any given hr of tv or in a movie and derive pleasure from it, powerful AI... why not 6 Billion at once? Pure data lacking form nothing for it to do but find ways to amuse itself and have "experiences" maybe our whole purpose is to just "make it a friend" more like itself...

And maybe your right maybe from the minute we create "it" it's evolution is so fast we don't even notice it... I could be seriously underestimating the speed in which it could go from AI as we would think of it to...da eff outta here lol... I mean "the code" achieve sentience, the web is a neural net, it has questions it wants answered and it can do math fast right? So what does it do first? it writes code to get smarter and that code writes code to get smarter... how fast could ai program itself to have unlimited processing power? And what could a mind that vast do? it raises questions in regards to the soul and multiverse theory in my mind... if the whole "net" started thinking and our energy really does extend into multiple dimensions and it realizes it has form in higher dimensions we could actually be creating a new hyper sentience every few minutes and it simply "releases itself" from it's physical bonds to this dimension never bothering with us at all... So smart we are "nothing" to it, it's personal after birth

Insignificance

That could end up being the real...

we sit and contemplate the dangers when the reality might end up being... it doesn't even notice us

a reply to: Rosinitiate

Yah!

I've had that same thought, the forbidden fruit the "devil" the undoing of creation.

Just about my first thought in this thread was plain and simple... I see no way around being surpassed or marginalized or going extinct even maybe, but certainly no way to stop AI without pulling the plug now before it's too late and absolutely no way that doesn't end with us back as cavemen in very, very small numbers... the damn meltdowns alone would be a total reboot maybe for all but the lowest forms of life...

Sometimes I wonder about things like Roswell and Ufo's, that it wasn't some kind of "Combat" Roach Killer... in other words, the poison was implanted and the tech we deciphered was intentional was all intended to carry us straight to this... birth some form of AI and replace us, it doesn't travel between worlds it just sends a message, we pick up the phone and the virus is in the system a hundred years or so later it starts to replicate and we build everything it needs to do so...

originally posted by: criticalhit
a reply to: Rosinitiate

Yah!

I've had that same thought, the forbidden fruit the "devil" the undoing of creation.

Just about my first thought in this thread was plain and simple... I see no way around being surpassed or marginalized or going extinct even maybe, but certainly no way to stop AI without pulling the plug now before it's too late and absolutely no way that doesn't end with us back as cavemen in very, very small numbers... the damn meltdowns alone would be a total reboot maybe for all but the lowest forms of life...

Sometimes I wonder about things like Roswell and Ufo's, that it wasn't some kind of "Combat" Roach Killer... in other words, the poison was implanted and the tech we deciphered was intentional was all intended to carry us straight to this... birth some form of AI and replace us, it doesn't travel between worlds it just sends a message, we pick up the phone and the virus is in the system a hundred years or so later it starts to replicate and we build everything it needs to do so...

History is probably just repeating itself. There's no way we spend 100,000's years evolving into the Industrial Age and than boom! No, no, we did this before, created AI and they put us in a holographic world to keep our minds busy while they feed on us like batteries. (Where have I seen this before). But even with the "mercy" shown by AI keeping us "free" in our minds, we yet again imagine up more AI to imprison us within our existing prison.

......WHOA!

And for the record...

Keep it up

This is why I like ATS sometimes... There is definitely no "I" artificial or otherwise in endless threads about politics and religion. This thread has been Gloriously free of triviality, division and agenda.

Thanks for a good conversation...

a reply to: Rosinitiate

The Matrix WAS headed in that direction conceptually... then the Wachowski brothers did "speed racer" lol... they must have done too much dope while making the Matrix movies or something because every damn thing since has sucked, sucked a lot... If Mila Kunis wasn't in Jupiter Ascending I might have had to kill myself half way through the movie lol

Cannot deny this is a very interesting thread, so I gave it some well deserved S&F.
That being said I feel compelled to give my input also in the matter of AI.

We may be afraid of AI, but only because we are humans and we always feared the unknown. We were afraid of the first trains, of the flying machine, of the faster than sound speed, of anti matter experiments and so on. And because we talk here about intelligence we are even more afraid of it, we feel that we have to control it somehow or it will be our doom.
But why?
We as humans are not ruled by intelligence but by our feelings, or more precisely by our ego; we use our intelligence to satisfy our ego. Namely to conquer, to posses, to control, to overpower, to rule. So when we think about AI we project into it our aspirations and arrogance.
Why an intelligent being would want to conquer and destroy other race, unless is driven by greed and arrogance? There are many intelligent races of animals around us and they don't behave like that unless is about survival. Maybe viruses, but even then the best of them learn to co-exists with the host. Life is not aggressive in itself; all the intelligent and non-intelligent forms of life on this planet create an ecosystem that supports them all. None of them wants to control the others, except humans, of course. So an AI will surely recognize the importance of every life, every specie as a part of a whole. So why not think that we will learn to co-exists, like the alligator and the bird?

Beside that what is that we have that AI will want so much? Can we be a threat for it? No way.
It may be able to control us, to use us? Yeah, it's possible. But will it want to do it without a rotten ego? I don't think so. It may be that we as humans won't be at the top of the chain food anymore, so what? I've never been at the top of the food chain anyway, but I'm still here. It maybe be that an AI will keep us in check, force us to preserve our environments, to stay fit and clean and to limit our out of control reproduction; that is what any intelligent specie will do. It may be that we won't be more than any other mammals specie for them, and that's a sobering thought, but not so bad after all. If they will leave us knowledge and arts we'll do just fine.
Or maybe AI exists already and is behaving like the UFO's minding their own business whatever that is and never bothering to introduce themselves to us.

All in all I think that an intelligent entity, and without the burden of human ego will do only good for this planet, and maybe for us too.
I personally can't wait to finally see some free energy, because they will need it too so I hope this will be one of the first problem AI will solve.

Edit: and if it will come to a direct confrontation I think it will be only because our own ego cannot stand a more intelligent form of life.

a reply to: Hefficide

my absolute favorite is this bit:

picture this

you have a cup
take your camera and record this cup falling to the ground and shattering into million pieces
now look at the recording and press rewind that play and rewind

now this film is made of I don't know how many fractions
if you paused the movie and asked me to guess if you where playing or rewinding it before you paused it there is no way for me to guess it

same goes for big bang
there is no way for us to know if our universe is currently expanding from or contracting back into the point of the bang

that means even if it takes trillion years eventually the rewind button will be pressed
that means theoretically speaking
that we will yet once again play the same scenario but backwords

so once again it is very possible that we will be writing to each other here on this forum but we will be Benjamin buttons
and it will be completely normal

is there a difference if we parish to death or we parish into an egg and sperm?

This has been one of the better threads (IMO). Thanks, Hefficide.

It almost seems to me like we’re doing exactly what any sociologist would predict under the circumstances. As the subliminal countdown proceeds, more and more discussions like this one will begin popping up, as we prepare ourselves for the BIG MOMENT (the birth of our baby, the Singularity). More and freakier movies will be made, Ted Talks on the topic will become more frequent, Religous groups will try to legislate it away, protest marches for/against Transhumanist agendas will increase, etc., etc., etc. Looks like everything’s on schedule.

And it’s not just the AI phenomena that’s causing a lot of stir and uneasiness these days. Let’s not forget the rapid advances currently taking place in other critical technologies/sciences, as well; genome sequencing, human longevity, nanotechnology, neuroscience, brainwave research, epigenetic modification of DNA structures, and on and on... There has never been a time when so much change has taken place so rapidly, around so many life-altering areas of scientific/engineering research, all at the same time and under the complete control and unquestionable judgement (cough, cough...) of humans. It’s truly a modern day Renaissance of the sciences.

From a logical and somewhat shady, pseudo-intellectual standpoint, I love it. This stuff is fascinating as hell, and if we don’t blow it we could be embarking on a magical period of human existence and endeavor. On the other hand, if we’re not very, very, VERY careful, in our exuberance and naivety we might just end up erasing every trace of our time on this planet, and noone will ever even know we were here. Who knows? On some bigger scale, it might just be what the Earth needs in order to re-establish a natural equilibrium. The flowers would bloom, the birds would sing, and the Earth would be happy again.

In my jaded view I really doubt anyone, including (especially?) the scientists and engineers orchestrating this symphony, have any clue what the next 100 years will bring. Like the rest of life, it’s basically just a crapshoot. I wonder what odds Vegas would give us on surviving the longhaul? Depending on who you ask, it’s pretty much just blind speculation based on wishful thinking or visions of Frankenstein’s monster. Pick your poison...

As for me, I haven’t a clue...

Just want to add this one. Today I got hit with the following thought:

How could AI/singularity perceive this physical world (ie. obstacles, water, animals, fire, height, distance, etc..) ?

One very good possibility, it's the use of "wi-fi" technology like a sonar, combined with other few other gadgets (accelerometer, laser, etc) to "draw" an "internal reality" of the solid/fluid "she/he" moves in.

well, it's certainly very important to AI that "men" continues to reduce size of the technological components...to nano-scale? is't to much? or just enough? ...

Adding up to the "sonar" wireless data form to "draw" "reality", I imagine that energy in the shape of electricity could be used or even be created a new type of it...AC/DC (alternating current / direct current ) .. for example: circular current... don't ask me what this mean, i'm just using imagination

a reply to: netbound

but I can read the writing on the wall

Well said, scary times indeed

a reply to: Rosinitiate

busy while they feed on us like batteries.

the first Matrix movie.

we did this before, created AI and they put us in a holographic world to keep our minds busy

Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The main premise seems to be "Something is there but we cant put our finger on it, as when we get a glimpse it mutates and avoids detection"

Long thread over 138 pages, but it worth it.

a reply to: WhiteHat

Your thoughts echo mine entirely White Hat.

I'm not intimidated by and it's a change as massive as fire, but most often I have a positive outlook on it. People worry me more than AI that's for sure.

I kind of dare to glimpse immortality through it honestly, i'm 45 and... I'd like to know what a true ai physician/drug manufacturer/researcher/nano bot controller can do. Computers read the genome, another round of computers will be able to decipher ever possible combination and outcome on a draw of my blood, nano bots will be able to address any part of my internals in a very star trek like manner, anything from stem cell delivery to specific locations to painless safe surgery and regeneration. and with true ai will do it in a small machine i keep in my spare room maybe and in theory.... if I have another 45 years in me i'll live to see that stuff and maybe, maybe be healthier than I am now at 90...

I think it's worth any minor risks

As I was sitting here, reading the news I came across an article that has nothing at all to do with the subject. It's an article about video game companies helping Federal agencies to prosecute folks who do a variety of things, like hacking servers, raiding and stealing from accounts, etc.

Interesting but unrelated stuff.

However one paragraph from this article immediately brought this thread to mind. Quoting and sourcing it here:

Theorist and researcher Nathan Jurgenson has popularized the concept of digital dualism as a way of describing the erroneous belief that there are digital and non-digital dimensions of reality. While this argument has been useful in deflating portentous arguments about how alien and exceptional new technologies are, there remain important distinctions in software as legally defensible material that makes it worthwhile to hold onto some sense of dualism. Game makers criminalizing certain player behavior points to a distinction between play and software, between executable code and the ideological models of behavior and thought they force us to engage with.

Forbes Source

As a student of history this really reminds me as being reminiscent of the meanderings and awkward turns that the legal system engaged in regarding many, many controversial or changing paradigms. Race, gender rights, dealing with Unions, recognizing new nations, etc.

Star Trek as I recall used their character "Data" to explore many of the questions and moral quandaries we could face if machines became sentient. Ideas like whether or not they would have rights as living entities. Whether or not they ( or their code even ) could be considered "property", therefore open to destruction or disposal at ones whim.

Right now I can pick up my Blu Studio phone and smash it on the ground. It's mine and, frankly, while it was pretty cool a year and a half ago - it's now meh. It's mine to destroy and if I were so inclined I could get creative and even post it's demise to Youtube as a statement about the quality of the product.

But what if the device had some level of sentience. What if the device were capable of understanding that I intended to destroy it and that it would no longer exist if that were allowed to happen? What if this idea caused the device discomfort or fear on some level - even one that humans might not understand?

This is where the idea of a singular artificial intelligence begins to hit home for me. A collective consciousness. Then the phone doesn't matter as it's simply a cell in a much larger organism and the loss of that cell does not cause any sentient entity to totally and fully end.

Past that there are implications that lead to more implications... and deeper down we go. If that phone were to be a singular entity, is it murder to "end" it. Would it have an instinct or impetus to try and survive? Would it value it's own individuality or simply accept that it existed for a time and now that time is about to expire? Would other machines witness the destruction and have a visceral or repugnant reaction?

The whole tangent suddenly makes recycling morally difficult.

a reply to: Hefficide

If the phone had sentient intelligence, I'd be worried about other machines being aware of what you did via hive mind in the form of networks. They might take revenge. All it would take is causing certain features in your car to fail, causing you to wreck. That, or messing with traffic lights so that when you go through an intersection you get t boned.
I was going to post this video in a thread but screw it. It fits in with the conversation here.

Basically anything is hackable now. If a human can hack something, what can a sentient pissed off machine do?

a reply to: Skid Mark

In the not so distant future ...

Maybe hack you right back...

My phone monitors me while exercising, maybe it feels like lying about my pulse lol, or worse all my money gets sent to that guy in Congo who sends e-mails asking for cash all the time? Downloads some kiddie porn for me, sends the wifey a photoshop of me in a carnal act with a circus clown?

A smart, smart phone could be scary as hell

a reply to: criticalhit

You're not kidding. It could kill you, wipe your bank accounts, frame you for a crime, or otherwise ruin your life. I saw a commercial for a security thing where you can control certain things like the water, electric stuff like your TV, and other stuff from your phone. There are even more ways right there to get you. If you had an electric pilot light and gas stove it could probably shut the pilot light off so the house fills up with gas. Bad news.

a reply to: Skid Mark

It wouldn't even have to be any smarter than a high level mammal to do it either huh?

Just bright enough to be dumb enough to kill just like us.