Aircraft of the RAF...

I am a big supporter of the Royal Air Force, and if you perhaps didnt know, we have 4 types of jet aircraft excluding the C-17's and Tristars etc, but I was thinking, and this is only a suggestion and to see what people on ATS think, about getting some more aircraft. So far the RAF have:
Tornado GR4
Tornado F-3
Harrier
Jaguar

Since we are getting rid of the Jaguars, and the Tornados are apperently to be took out of service by 2008, I am not sure about the Harrier, the Typhoon will be the main aircraft, or if you like, the only aircraft along with the F-35 JSF, and as good as they are, I do not entierly agree with it, an airforce consisting solely on 2 types of aircraft for defence and attack, I think that the RAF should invest in at least the following aircraft:
F-16's
F-15's
F'18s
What do you think??

Oh and one more thing - All of you have a merry christmas and a happy new year!

[edit on 23-12-2004 by VoyagerNX23]

Hasn't Blair just ordered a billion pounds (value might be wrong) worth of Euro fighters.

Not a real follower in military aquisition, believe it was mentioned on BBC R1 newscast Tuesday 21st, in the morning. (didn't want to sound like one of those, I heard from a bloke who had a friend whos mum, works with a fella types ... )

Why spend so much on F15's/16's/18's?
Why not go for something with a longer range and a bit more exotic?

How about some new Sukhois with a European avionics and weapons fit.
Just buy those gorgeous airframes and have a tinker. Gotta be cheaper

Flankers would be a very nice addition to the RAF, to be honest I actually forgot about them, F-16's happen to be good aircraft, there is a Jaguar at RAF Coltishall that went into a play dog-fight with an F-16, the pilot of the Jaguar bent the wing trying to escape, engineers said he was lucky to be able to land, and that Jaguar is now non-flyable, it is used to practice putting weapons on etc, I think the F-16 would be sutable replacing the Jaguar, even though I think the Jaguar should stay in longer, but thats moving of topic...

neither the F-16 or F-15 can do anything that the RAF wants them to better than the Typhoon can do it so what would be the point?

The Tornado will remain in service until FOAS replaces it around 2014.

If there were another front line type I would like to see us acquire then it would be maybe three sqns worth of Raptors, oh, and the same number of B-2 Spirits to join the RAF as the "Lancaster II"

The future RAF will consist of

Typhoon - Defence and Air supperiority (replaces F3 and Jaguar)
Tornado GR4 - Strike (remains the best strike option availible today)
F-35 - Carrier based strike and defence (replaces harrier and sea harrier)

The only thing missing is a heavy bomber.

I say bring back the vulcan

Jaguar is a close air support type as is the Harrier and the Typhoon and F-35K will operate in the same roles as well as the ones you mentioned.

(I only use F-35K in an alliterative sense, ie F-4K, F-111K and C-130K were all UK versions of those types - I have no idea whether the F-35 will follow the trend but I hope this makes it clear what I am on about as opposed to the three US versions:up

Well back in the cold war Britain would have been responsible for providing escort to convoys coming in from the US once they crossed past Iceland. Anyhow Britain needed a good long range interceptor for the job. They considered the F-14, which was perfect for the job but cost to much. They also considered the F-15 but that wasn't adequete for the job apparently. Eventually they setteled on the Tornado I believe. So the main problem in the MOD is idiots like Blair who keep making budget cuts.

Over all I think the F-35 will do the RAF and RN a lot of good. Still it's not as good as what F-14s would have done.

Well, the Netherlands is going to replace their F-16s (the only fighter/bomber in service in the DRAF) with the F-35, we have no bombers, we have no attack aircraft, no interceptors, we will just have the F-35As to replace the F-16

So what Brittain will have will be much better! cheer up

I thought I read / heard somewhere that the two "super-carriers" planned for had been cancelled. Anyone know if this is true?

Originally posted by cyberdude78
Over all I think the F-35 will do the RAF and RN a lot of good. Still it's not as good as what F-14s would have done.

Actually the nearest thing we will have in service to the F-14 mission will be the Typhoon not the F-35 which will replace trhe Harrier (see my post above).

Now much as I love the Tiffie I don't think this is a good idea as the Tornado F.3 we have now is an excellent long range interceptor and at least a couple of Sqns of this aircraft should be retained IMO.

Apparently its purely a financial decision as it is cheaper to have one common fighter in service than maintain a small force of different types.

For anyone not sure what I'm getting at with the Tornado F.3/Typhoon thing, its sort of like replacing the F-14 with the F-18. Great plane, but not quite right for that particular job. What? Oh, you have done!

Hows this for numbers?


Tornado GR4 - GR4A - Current plans are to maintain aircraft until 2018.
86 GR4 Combat aircraft in service (26 with the reserve squadron).
15 GR4A Reconnaissance aircraft in service.

Tornado F3 - Current plans to retire the aircraft between 2007 and 2010. Replacement is the Eurofighter.
88 F3 Combat aircraft in service (20 with the reserve squadron).

Jaguar GR 3/3A and T4 - Current plans to retire aircraft in 2008, no replacement as yet.
44 various types in service (8 with the reserve squadron).

Harrier GR7/7A GR9 GR9A T MARK 10 - No current plans to retire (reports to the contrary are overstated, its the navy thats loosing some Harriers and they will gain some of the RAFs).
167 various types in service w/RAF (15 with the reserve squadron).

Nimrod MR2 - Due to be replaced by the MRA4 in 2005.
23 various types in service (3 with reserve squadron).

Sentry AEW1 - No current plans to retire.
6 various types in service.

Hawk T1/T1A - Plans to retire current aircraft in 2010, BAe given contract this week to develop the Hawk NG replacement.
95 various types in service.

Eurofighter Typhoon - RAF currently receiving production models. 186 budgeted for purchase in initial batch.

C-130 Hercules - No current plans to retire.
49 aircraft in service (5 with reserve squadrons).

C-17 Globemaster - Current service aircraft.
4 aircraft in service.

VC 10 - No current plans to retire.
8 aircraft in service.

Tristar K1/KC1/C2/C2A - No current plans to retire.
8 aircraft in service.



[edit on 23/12/2004 by RichardPrice]

Originally posted by Britguy
I thought I read / heard somewhere that the two "super-carriers" planned for had been cancelled. Anyone know if this is true?

Not true. The plans were under threat of being revised to produce much smaller carriers than planned for, but the threat of major resignations from the upper levels of the Admiralty managed to keep Hoon at bay (for now). The news that the F-35 is currently overweight hasnt helped much tho :/

Oh, and incase anyone asks, the RNFAA (Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm) has this:

28 x Sea Harrier. Air Defence and Recce/Attack.
38 x Sea King and Merlin Helicopters. Anti-submarine warfare.
48 x Lynx Helicopters. Anti-submarine warfare and missile armed for surface ship attack.
8 x AEW Sea King Helicopters. Provide radar airborne early warning to fleet.
29 x Sea King Commando Helicopters. Royal Marine Commando operations.
6 x Lynx Helicopters. Anti Tank attack role. Part of Commando Force.
9 x Gazelle Helicopters. Reconnaissance duties.

If you want to see how defence cuts have hurt the UK compare those (accurate) figures with the actual numbers of each type first acquired for service.;

Tornado ADV (F.3) = 165
Tornado IDS (GR.1/1A/4/4A) = 220
Jaguar GR.1& T.2 = 165&37 = 202

Only the Harrier force has grown, but only a little.


I dispute some of your claims though Richard.

You say there are no current plans to retire the Harrier, whilst retirement is not imminent that is the reason we are in JSF. Also Typhoos IS slated to replace the Jaguar. Also the RN is not losing some Harriers it is losing them all, and with them their BVR air defence capability, the RAF will continue to operate GR.7's, and soon GR.9's, from the carriers as their commitment to JFH but its not really the same

Likewise you say trhere are no current plans to replace the VC-10 and Tristar when in fact the Airbus A330 is to be acquired for this.

Originally posted by waynos

I dispute some of your claims though Richard.

You say there are no current plans to retire the Harrier, whilst retirement is not imminent that is the reason we are in JSF. Also Typhoos IS slated to replace the Jaguar. Also the RN is not losing some Harriers it is losing them all, and with them their BVR air defence capability, the RAF will continue to operate GR.7's, and soon GR.9's, from the carriers as their commitment to JFH but its not really the same

Likewise you say trhere are no current plans to replace the VC-10 and Tristar when in fact the Airbus A330 is to be acquired for this.

There may be replacement options in the works, but no retirement plans have been approved by the MoD as of yet, which is why I state so against some of the aircraft types above. Intentions do not mean that such replacements will happen.

Also the RAF Harrier is undergoing updates to bring GR7s up to GR9s and GR9As, as well as updating the T10s to T12 capability. (Basically, the GR9s will receive strengthened rear fuselages, while the GR9As will receive uprated engines and weapons systems, in a �500million project over the next 3 - 4 years).

The RN will retain 18 F/A2 rated Harriers which entered service since 1998, although these will be under the command of the RAF, they will still be Naval Harriers tho

The Eurofighter may take on the jaguars role, but its not a direct operational replacement.

Originally posted by RichardPrice
VC 10 - No current plans to retire.
8 aircraft in service.

Tristar K1/KC1/C2/C2A - No current plans to retire.
8 aircraft in service.

I thought that these two types comprised the bulk of thier AA refuling fleet. I thought they had an Airbus contract to replace them with an A330 tanker or something?
?



[edit on 12/23/04 by FredT]

Originally posted by FredT

I thought that these two types comprised the bulk of thier AA refuling fleet. I thought they had an Airbus contract to replace them with an A330 tanker or something?
?

[edit on 12/23/04 by FredT]

There is an Airbus contract to build an Arial Tanker - the FSTA (FUTURE STRATEGIC TANKER AIRCRAFT), the projected inservice date of which is between 2008 and 2012. As such there have been no retirement plans for the current refueling tankers, and its likely that the current fleet will gradually be phased out as the aircraft get older, rather than going for a straight fleet replacement.

Good points, again, as most of my topics wind down to, it is all revolving around money, I like to agree with all your points, Lucretius made a nice point about bringing the Vulcans back, they were took out of service due to wing stress, aparently the wings were cracking where they were joined underneath to the aircraft fuselage and were unable to repair them, and it was getting costly so they were retiered - so i was told. I am just worried as well, that the F-3 can be taken down by most aircraft, Flankers would be better at their job as good as the F-3s are, dont get me wrong, but the Flankers were desinged to take out Harriers, but it turns out it can nail an F-3 too, bonus to the Russians. The Typhoon will be a great replacement for all the fighting aircraft of the RAF today, but it is still better to have some variety so we dont over use that type of aircraft or to put it simpilar, so we are not relying on just the one type of aircraft to do every job we need doing, even though we have the F-35 aswell (Dont know much about the F-35, how good it is in comabt etc) I dont know if you agree or not, but thats my thoughts....

Todays RAF,

Tornado GR4/A Excellent low level strike
Tornado F3 Good long range BVR interceptor
Harrier OK good cas and strike
Jag nice but getting a little old
Nimrod MR2 excellent anti-sub

Tommorrows RAF:

Tornado GR900 (Or what ever the next upgrade is called maybe the Eurojet 200 engines and some new toys :-)
The FOAS some time after 2012 long range strike multiple platforms
The F35K
Hawk 128 / NG More than likely a trainer and light attack platform
Nimrod MR4 World beater anti-sub and electronic spying

The MOD will put the remaining Tornado F3's into strorage for a good few years as it makes a good anti-radition attack plane.

Sadly I think the time has come for the Jag by about 2008 :-(

The FOAS long range strike will possably a mixed force of UCAV's and a single strike aircarft BAE's Replica program

www.lowobservable.com...

Also lot's of fun new cruise missiles is some talk for the following a hypersonic mach 5-8 2000 range CALCM nice!

O sod it use some tridents!