Minds So Infinitely Small.

a reply to: InTheLight

We are all naked and exposed, once we look beyond the physical.

This is true ... good point ... it takes courage to be completely honest with one self.
To remove the mask we are taught to wear and see the essence of who/what we truly are.
It takes courage to examine impartially our own thoughts and feelings ... our intentions and shake off the indoctrinations placed upon us from birth.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
a reply to: Itisnowagain
How soon is now?

How long is now? Have you ever experienced a time when it is not now?

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: TheLaughingGod
Of what?

The empirical evidence that utterly and completely disproves all mystical notions.

I suppose it's unfortunate that these mystics never got their mysticism validated, and only their science. I wonder why?

I suppose it's unfortunate that your mind is so small it has real problems imagining things that can not currently be explained and easily measured.

According to zero evidence and credulity.

According to reality. It is unfortunate that you persist in this delusion of yours. But it is alright, you may prefer your bubble of ignorance to the cold hard facts of reality - some people just can't cope with the larger complexities of life and may feel the need to hide and or convince themselves of certain things. Playing with words in lieu of the real thing when one is scared may be therapeutic and just right for the little ones so it's not really a problem. We leave the serious things to serious people, milk for the babes, meat for the adults. Let the "philosophers" mentally masturbate their lives away arrogant in their certainties, someone grown will do the real work.

I would refer you to a witch doctor for this mental delusion of yours, but I don't think you would be receptive to the treatment. What I would like to prescribe for you is a series of ontological shocks. We call it ontological shock therapy. Preferably something entirely sinister and terrifying because fear is good like that. Maybe then you'd learn some respect. You're probably too indecent though, not ready yet.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
a reply to: Itisnowagain
How soon is now?

How long is now? Have you ever experienced a time when it is not now?

Certainly; past remembering, future contemplations. I have to concentrate upon my actions performed in the "NOW" as it is happening by the micro second. Its very interesting to experience total focus; as when that happens all else falls away from body experience. Mind remembers, but time stops; 12 hours consumed not remembered. That is living in the now as I experience it. Thank you for your reply Itisnowagain.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
Certainly; past remembering, future contemplations.

Have you ever experienced a time when it is not now?

'Past remembering' and 'future contemplations' are experienced now.
Nothing can appear outside of now - you are now and 'past remembering and future contemplations' appear within what you are. Now is the aware space which everything is made of.
Can it be seen that nothing can appear to happen outside of now (what you really are)?

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

I've been pretty exposed to the practice of Mental quiescence, only to fall from it just by being attached to the act of curiosity and questioning it, like the Christian metaphor of biting into the fruit of knowledge, where one is no longer protected by God....Sort of speak.

If I hadn't experienced and learned from the practices of quiescence, I would be having a very bad eye twitch, intense blood pressure, as well as a host of mental apparitions probably representing the seven deadly sins and virtues . My problem is not so much seeking answers, but finding the right questions and the experience. Sensations are very fleeting, something I learned a long time ago, and the way science goes into the science of brain chemicals like being addicted to the sensation of rewards, ancient wisdom on the subject can seem much more relative today.

I've had some very big obstacles thrown in path, spiritually that is, which had been a blessing due to amazement, but a hefty curse on ones questioning, or let alone station in this life. I appreciate the reminder, my childish curiosity will pass soon in my young adult hood, but for now, I have been under, or put my on a lot pressure due to a few normal circumstances for that to stop.

a reply to: Specimen

Philosophicalitis... many experiencers of mental training develop this. When we abandon faith and rote concepts for direct experience... we make a lot of room to fill the void literally and figuratively where it once sat. So no longer being hounded by inner feelings of shame, guilt, immorality etc. garnered from moralistically rote concepts we get hounded by what these experiences we are having means... chasing mental quiescence away just as effectively.

The issue is trying to add subjectivity, when one should work on just being an observer of experience itself. When we get subjective with the experiences it leads to more thoughts about these experiences often in the form of good and bad... when an ego is attached it can also create delusions about these experiences.

Hopefully, that has helped show the trap is obvious. Experiences are neither good nor bad with objectivity, as an observer you are there just to watch and not interact. When we interact in any way? We lose all objectivity and start trying to reason, this simply covers reality the same as not even practicing does.

My advice is to stop trying to mentally interpret experiences on and off the cushion and just experience things as they are when they arise and also just letting them pass. If the mind grabs something or it keeps coming up? Take a look at it, deep as you possibly can at it's root cause for being there, instead of thinking about whatever it is... there isn't a solution that can be picked from growing thoughts about it... finding the root cause of whatever arising time and time again allows you to uproot the whole damn thing. Many times it is something programmed in, that can arise to torture us if we identify with it in some manner... like a former racist trying to not think slurs. It took time and training for those slurs to be automatic, and it takes looking at the root and experience to quiet them down.

The mind gets bored with objective thought, so it will play subjective games to occupy itself... that resembles an internal tourettes of sorts. The more you try to ignore it the more it lays the game... until you seriously look into the root cause of it's arising and undo all the branches holding it firmly in place. It didn't get that way over night unless it was through trauma of some sort... no one claims such mental burdens to be rational in nature. If they were rational, then they wouldn't have any power to upset our mentality. Some rationalize the irrational with cognitive dissonance or with excuses, instead of taking responsibility they know they should.

The reason I'm stressing objectivity to you... is eventually, there will be no questions or things that demand answers. The whole problem solves itself in the end. Getting subjective and trying to draw conclusions until then is one of the largest hurdles in practice. I was guilty of it myself, for many years... then I noticed the behavior in someone else, the abhorrence I felt from that behavior stopped mine in my tracks, and I shut up about practice for several years and stayed objective. Until it all came undone and solved itself, leaving reality laid completely bare.

The task wasn't completely done, when I started speaking about practice again? People started attaching a reverence to my words and advice on the subject. Sure reality was lay clear and open, but the ego was still attempting to add a significance to this phenomena of reverence... the ego's root job is self preservation, in today's society that can mean wanting monetize or capitalize on this influence in some way. I decided to withdraw back into silence and see it clearly in perspective, so it wouldn't go to my head. I didn't understand why the Buddha stayed in the grove a few weeks after his full awakening, until then.

There is a lot of responsibility that comes with seeing reality directly, knowing the keys to all drives, needs, wants, and desires, not to mention the vast storehouse of knowledge available at any time... can be very tempting to the ego to turn to exploitation, if it is not seen for what it is and uprooted... this is seeing Mara directly face to face, the lord of death and the cycle of suffering that keeps the wheel of samsara turning within oneself, to rebuild the house so to speak.

I was there before where you are now, but the ego or Mara's face was too obscured to see it for what it was... it was only after reality was lain bare, and I started helping people over come their own obstacles in practice that the ego's face was clearly seen... it truly is a last temptation, that if grasped bonds one back to the wheel. But with reality finally lain bare, it's face was crystal clear. Fortunately, I didn't start biting the ego bait so hard to set the hook, and was able to put it in check. It was then that the last ember of the burning house extinguished and complete freedom manifested.

On one hand, people think i'm an idiot for turning down millions of dollars and lucrative job offers, that were arising around the time... and on the other great respect in doing so, because if people felt they needed validation of my awakening that gave it to them. In other words it all solved itself, without any help as many things often do.

I urge you towards being objective in your practice if you decide to continue, and stop subjectively grasping after transient experiences looking for kernels of truth by trying to form questions based on mere reflections of reality. Reality is always there, as clear as the day is separate from night at 12 noon; it needs no help to be reality, it just is... and I sincerely hope your first glimpse of it, certainly isn't your last.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
Certainly; past remembering, future contemplations.

Have you ever experienced a time when it is not now?

'Past remembering' and 'future contemplations' are experienced now.
Nothing can appear outside of now - you are now and 'past remembering and future contemplations' appear within what you are. Now is the aware space which everything is made of.
Can it be seen that nothing can appear to happen outside of now (what you really are)?

Probably not; ('now)' focus excluded? Every event past or present or in foresight/future has purpose in expressing a meaning for the souls progression.

How can a mind be infinitely small??? I can understand a mind being infinitely big - the mind would exist and be, well, big. But if infinitely small it would soon get so small as not to exist and hence no mind to be big or snall.

originally posted by: taoistguy
How can a mind be infinitely small??? I can understand a mind being infinitely big - the mind would exist and be, well, big. But if infinitely small it would soon get so small as not to exist and hence no mind to be big or snall.

It is infinitely LARGE. It is awesomely HUGE taoistguy. It is ridiculous as to its not only achievements so far; but those to come. The human mind is perfect in its imperfection; its ability to create (even when thrown in a chaotic bodily state of being that is linear time) is unprecedented; never happened ever before this experiment,

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: taoistguy
How can a mind be infinitely small??? I can understand a mind being infinitely big - the mind would exist and be, well, big. But if infinitely small it would soon get so small as not to exist and hence no mind to be big or snall.

It is infinitely LARGE. It is awesomely HUGE taoistguy. It is ridiculous as to its not only achievements so far; but those to come. The human mind is perfect in its imperfection; its ability to create (even when thrown in a chaotic bodily state of being that is linear time) is unprecedented; never happened ever before this experiment,

So you agree it can be big? But not small?

originally posted by: taoistguy
originally posted by: vethumanbeing
originally posted by: taoistguy

taoistguy: How can a mind be infinitely small??? I can understand a mind being infinitely big - the mind would exist and be, well, big. But if infinitely small it would soon get so small as not to exist and hence no mind to be big or snall.

VHB: It is infinitely LARGE. It is awesomely HUGE taoistguy. It is ridiculous as to its not only achievements so far; but those to come. The human mind is perfect in its imperfection; its ability to create (even when thrown in a chaotic bodily state of being that is linear time) is unprecedented; never happened ever before this experiment,

taoistguy: So you agree it can be big? But not small?

Its both, the infinitely HUGE and infinitely SMALL express the same thing *god particle*.

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: InTheLight

We are all naked and exposed, once we look beyond the physical.

This is true ... good point ... it takes courage to be completely honest with one self.
To remove the mask we are taught to wear and see the essence of who/what we truly are.
It takes courage to examine impartially our own thoughts and feelings ... our intentions and shake off the indoctrinations placed upon us from birth.

Thank you for seeing beyond and giving such wise ramblings.

a reply to: taoistguy

It seems the physical mind is small, in that, is has cells, connections and such, but when consciousness is formed, it may be within a quantum realm that we little understand...really big stuff.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

A thoughtful post.

What is "Mara"?

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

A thoughtful post.

What is "Mara"?

Mara is the personification of the lower self in Buddhist cosmology, also called Yama in the Vedic tradition, Satan or Devil in Abrahamic traditions. Mara/Yama/Satan no matter the name it's the same thing; the lower self that covers the higher self and reality through the three poisons of life; greed, hate, and ignorance which keeps one bound in the cycle of death and rebirth. Many externalize Mara, Yama, Satan as an entity. When it is simply all ones thoughts, actions, and deeds perpetuating; greed, hate, and ignorance we are born into over and over again until fully enlightened.

Unfortunately, someone can point or speak directly at reality all day long, and no one would be able to see it or understand it by their words, because it takes direct experience to have the experience. All, one can hope to do if someone is curious or stuck in practice is inspire them to practice, or point directly at the persons hurdle to help shorten their struggle. Which is all I did with my reply to Specimen

Specimen has touched the void in practice opening the first gate of enlightenment, many think their task is done at this point and teach and point falsely, denying they have the same patterns and habits of greed, hate, and ignorance... they're still there just more refined and hard to see. Specimen is not ignorant enough to deny there was a slip back into Mara's grasp, so I pointed at the hurdle which I am sure Specimen sees clearly and related my experience of the same thing.

My apology for throwing out dogmatic specialized terms; the reply was meant specifically for Specimen. The path to awakening is the basis of every religion, some paths are more obscured or perverted than others, by what I mentioned about those thinking they are done before they are done. They bring a lot of people to the path with inspiration, but their tongue is still forked with duality baiting people with fruit even they haven't yet swallowed. I can appreciate Specimen sees that and isn't taking the initial glimpse of reality as full enlightenment.

Hopefully, the reply about my experience and what set me rightly back on the path made sense to Specimen and if not, Specimen you are welcome to inquire further if and when you need to or feel stuck in practice.


TheConstruKctionofLight, if you desire a further explanation of the lower self other than what it is? I'll be happy to explain my experience of it further when time permits it. The Bhavacakra depicts Mara/Yama/Satan pretty well in relation to the hold the lower self has over the higher self manifesting. In duality the lower self is the negative path in body, speech, and mind and the higher self the positive path of body, speech, and mind... beyond the two they are inseparability one, unfortunately the concept is easy to grasp in the rote sense of understanding, but it is not as simple or as easy as it may sound in direct experience in the arising and manifestations of either higher and lower self; much less when they are a singular whole indistinguishable... as that makes it appear as nothing at all has changed, in the grasp of rote understanding.

a reply to: InTheLight

From small acorns mighty oaks grow

originally posted by: taoistguy
How can a mind be infinitely small??? I can understand a mind being infinitely big - the mind would exist and be, well, big. But if infinitely small it would soon get so small as not to exist and hence no mind to be big or snall.

Such concepts of large and small don't mean anything when speaking of infinity - just like there is no number that is infinite. To even say that such a number must be very very large is meaningless because there is no such number as infinity.

In other words, infinity is an idea beyond any such limits, large or small.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

thank you

originally posted by: bb23108
In other words, infinity is an idea beyond any such limits, large or small.

I am also surprised that LesMis titled this thread "Minds So Infinitely Small" given it is not logical to speak in terms of infinitely large or infinitely small.

If something were actually infinitely small, it would simply be infinite - just like if something were infinitely large, it would also simply be infinite.

So after all this back and forth, it seems that LesMis was simply praising all of us for having infinite minds!