Minds So Infinitely Small.

a reply to: TzarChasm

for someone who so staunchly declares spirituality a waste of time, you sure do like to post about it. which is, in my opinion, the most interesting take-away observation here. the amount of threads you make concerning something that isnt worth your time. ironically.

I've never said spirituality is a waste of time. What the majority of people think is worth my time. Are we in the habit of making things up, throwing it at the wall, and seeing what sticks? But I will say your posts are a waste of time—not only my time, but everyone's.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I've never said spirituality is a waste of time.

thats a recurring idea that you dont come right out and say, but you might as well. like that thread about how we are just meat bodies doomed to decompose and be forever forgotten. how else can that be taken? according to you and your previous threads, the labels we use to describe spirituality arent good enough. the systems we use to provide structure for spirituality arent good enough. spirituality as a concept isnt good enough. im not sure i have seen a thread from you (and yes i have visited your profile out of curiosity) that wasnt trying to rip religion and spirituality and metaphysics a new a-hole, to a greater or lesser degree, with your expansive vocabulary and razor wit. of course you wont agree, but i were to ask at all, i would rather ask ATS in general for their opinion on the matter.

Are we in the habit of making things up, throwing it at the wall, and seeing what sticks? But I will say your posts are a waste of time—not only my time, but everyone's.

thats what a hypothesis is, generally. you just described (albeit sloppily) the "test" phase of the scientific method. but lets not forget the rest of the method.

well, clearly your lack of spirituality has done absolute wonders for your personality. you are sharp as a whip, lesmisanthrope, but your outlook comes across as woefully bitter and cold. dont think you can hide that with your advanced linguistics, and every thread you post deriding spiritualists for daring to imagine something greater is only going to make that more evident.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Well, Duncan MacDougall says my soul weighs about 21 gramms. So it is not entirely mass-less, just very much lacking content in many minds.
Besides that: i love your writing.
And i feel i know what you're talking about, it gets tiresome, to keep explaining there is no life worth living without reality. Imagination is awesome, fantastic, it can decide between genius or worker, but you have to know a few ways your brain takes when you want to shape it. And for many many many it just screams dellusion when they repeat the one keen statement they have over and over as if it would make you magically change your opinion after the 3 billions'th time.
The mind, the consciousness, the soul and what it might be are the biggest, oldest mysteries and i think in that regards we're actually devolving as much as our technological development reaches new hights.
We lost our transcendence, uncapable to really look into what the symbols our subconscience uses to talk to our aware mind really mean. We are so focused on getting touchable results, we forgot to learn what awaits us on the journey. And for some it is just obvious they are really stuck in fantasy land by choice.

No one can define or prove this soul-thingy, yet. But you may be one of the few on the right track to add some new insides.
Philosophers'
I'll also send you a astral postcard ( )

a reply to: TzarChasm

thats a recurring idea that you dont come right out and say, but you might as well. like that thread about how we are just meat bodies doomed to decompose and be forever forgotten.

This imagery is of your own mind when confronted with facts. Once again, I've never said we are just meat bodies doomed to decompose and be forever forgotten. This is your conclusion upon reading the fact that we decompose. These barren and nihilistic ideas are entirely yours, and I think they're false.

As for your posting history in my threads, I can do a tally of your posts and prove beyond hypothesis that the topic you are more interested in is me.

Your mind is too clever for your own good. This can be an obstacle.

Personally I find the title to be a reflection, an obvious "what if" staring you in the face. A confluence of subconscious feelings of inadequacy and self-importance dressed up in pretty words.

There really is no need to deal with loquacious metaphysics. Practice and experience is the goal and the path, after that there is no need to theorize endlessly from the myopic and limited perspective you seemingly take to be the be all end all of existence.

The only logical conclusion as I see it from a bigger more expanded framework where I've confirmed what you would deny is that you're like the fox complaining about sour grapes - the fact is that you haven't thoroughly explored both sides of the coin, and in that your perspective is severely limited and biased.

"Better, I think, than an embittered whine"

Embittered whine indeed.

Your reductionist view of inner worlds is a gross oversimplification. And it is expressly reductionistic, you draw several explicitly reductionistic inferences from that flawed interpretation. You totally fail to take the factor of holistic pantheism into the equation. It's not inside of us because there's an infinite number of consecutively smaller worlds inside of us(although that may be argued) - but because there's no real separation between the inner and the outer when seen from this exalted state and perspective that all traditions write about.

I find that minds that entertain smaller frameworks of reality are by their very nature smaller.

Having your brain fall out is actually a healthy experience because it shakes things up even if delusion is also a part of the experience. It's like choosing between entertaining, contemplating and experiencing either a varied set of perspectives, or a more limited set. More information and more perspectives is a good thing in this context, you don't learn to appreciate the true scope of reality, its complexity and nuances if you purposefully limit yourself. That is just common sense. Your rant is just words on a screen, they're not the real experience. They're only pointing at the moon while neglecting to intimately experience it.

I find your analogy of not finding a little "driver" inside of us awfully reductionistic. A straw man if I ever saw one. And a cringeworthy one at that.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

This imagery is of your own mind when confronted with facts. Once again, I've never said we are just meat bodies doomed to decompose and be forever forgotten. This is your conclusion upon reading the fact that we decompose. These barren and nihilistic ideas are entirely yours, and I think they're false.

okay, then what system of spirituality do you adhere to? i have never seen in any of your threads or posts a single reference to a spiritual concept that you yourself invest in. its always critizing someone elses deity, someone elses afterlife, someone elses spiritual lexicon. what god do you answer to? where do you hope to go after you die? do you feel you have a soul?

As for your posting history in my threads, I can do a tally of your posts and prove beyond hypothesis that the topic you are more interested in is me.

not quite true, although i will admit to being distracted by your tone. a great deal of the subject matter you cover reflects a certain disdain that i find...off-putting. education should not be humiliating and i feel you overlook that a lot.

a reply to: TheLaughingGod

There really is no need to deal with loquacious metaphysics. Practice and experience is the goal and the path, after that there is no need to theorize endlessly from the myopic and limited perspective you seemingly take to be the be all end all of existence.

If practice and experience is your path, how is it you then speak of my perspective? If your perspective is so limited, which is made clear by your own admission, you might endeavour to correct it. But of course, your limited perspective is made small by your own experiences.

The only logical conclusion as I see it from a bigger more expanded framework where I've confirmed what you would deny is that you're like the fox complaining about sour grapes - the fact is that you haven't thoroughly explored both sides of the coin, and in that your perspective is severely limited and biased.

Your "facts" are reminiscent of your own experience and your limited experience, remember? I have nothing to worry about then.

Your reductionist view of inner worlds is a gross oversimplification. And it is expressly reductionistic, you draw several explicitly reductionistic inferences from that flawed interpretation. You totally fail to take the factor of holistic pantheism into the equation. It's not inside of us because there's an infinite number of consecutively smaller worlds inside of us(although that may be argued) - but because there's no real separation between the inner and the outer when seen from this exalted state and perspective that all traditions write about.

There's no real separation between inner and outer, yet you still speak as if there is. This is the hilarity I'm dealing with here.

Having your brain fall out is actually a healthy experience because it shakes things up even if delusion is also a part of the experience. It's like choosing between entertaining, contemplating and experiencing either a varied set of perspectives, or a more limited set. More information and more perspectives is a good thing in this context, you don't learn to appreciate the true scope of reality, its complexity and nuances if you purposefully limit yourself. That is just common sense. Your rant is just words on a screen, they're not the real experience. They're only pointing at the moon while neglecting to intimately experience it.

I find your analogy of not finding a little "driver" inside of us awfully reductionistic. A straw man if I ever saw one. And a cringeworthy one at that.

It is clear you do not know what an analogy or a straw-man is.

In your entire tirade, you've spoken figuratively about everything, but literally about nothing. That is your curse. You cannot show, you can only tell.

But to be sure, what frustrates them is not your ability to attack their ideas, but their inability to defend them.

What confounds (not frustrates) me is my, and others', ability to adequately explain and defend our spiritual experiences, which can also be physically real, such as using an energy crystal and feeling energy vibrations (we are all but small bits of energy, broken down to even finer smaller bits of energy, and spirit is also energy), then having people with a dismissive attitude to attack (your word) because they have not the desire, ability, courage, or understanding to explore for themselves. Therein lies the small mind.

a reply to: TheLaughingGod

Personally I find the title to be a reflection, an obvious "what if" staring you in the face. A confluence of subconscious feelings of inadequacy and self-importance dressed up in pretty words.

According to your avatar description, your mood is aloof. Your post doesn't seem all that aloof.

When someone hears of a great something out there, or even in there, and begins to wonder, "Am I missing something?" The feeling of lack brings discontent. Discontent brings fear. "Oh know! What if I never find it? I will forever be incomplete, crippled."

"I must go on a quest." The quest to ascertain what the Great Something is, and how I can get my share. The less found on the quest causes the quest to become more frantic and full of fear.

Then someone says, "Don't forget to stop and smell the roses." And so the Knight-errant stops to smell the roses, and learns much there is to know about roses.

When the questing knight, battered and bruised and disheartened, abandons the quest, he writes a Magnum opus on roses.

a reply to: TzarChasm

okay, then what system of spirituality do you adhere to? i have never seen in any of your threads or posts a single reference to a spiritual concept that you yourself invest in. its always critizing someone elses deity, someone elses afterlife, someone elses spiritual lexicon. what god do you answer to? where do you hope to go after you die? do you feel you have a soul?

Very true. Do I not get a thanks for this?

a reply to: InTheLight

What confounds (not frustrates) me is my, and others', ability to adequately explain and defend our spiritual experiences, which can also be physically real, such as using an energy crystal and feeling energy vibrations (we are all but small bits of energy, broken down to even finer smaller bits of energy, and spirit is also energy), then having people with a dismissive attitude to attack (your word) because they have not the desire, ability, courage, or understanding to explore for themselves. Therein lies the small mind.

I have the desire, ability, and even the courage to explore your ideas, but they are so broken, fragmented and poorly put together, that one cannot advance past the first hurdle.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope
LesMis, this is basically the same topic as the last thread you authored - in fact, it calls upon the same responses I have made to you in most of your threads.

So here is my last post (which you never responded to) on your last thread - you know, the one in which you said I was evil. LOL


We have always agreed on the integrity of the body - as a whole, not just as a bunch of parts that comprise it. I greatly respect and appreciate your passion for its defense on this basis.

I have also spoken about it being integrated as a whole with its environment, on which it is completely dependent - as a necessary foundation for understanding what is true.

But I also know that the body is more than the physical - its boundaries are far greater than you are giving it credit for. One can only find this out through real intelligent investigation.

Why limit the boundaries of the body-mind? Why not allow for further discovery beyond the physical boundaries? If it is not true, so be it, but that has not been my discovery. Find out if this is true or not.

This absolutely does not require going within, trying to escape from bodily existence, etc. It simply is a matter of staying in place in the conscious "position" that is inherent in our simply being.

On this basis, it is revealed more and more that the body is far greater than just the physical manifestation its own five senses confirms that it is, and also limits it to.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: InTheLight

What confounds (not frustrates) me is my, and others', ability to adequately explain and defend our spiritual experiences, which can also be physically real, such as using an energy crystal and feeling energy vibrations (we are all but small bits of energy, broken down to even finer smaller bits of energy, and spirit is also energy), then having people with a dismissive attitude to attack (your word) because they have not the desire, ability, courage, or understanding to explore for themselves. Therein lies the small mind.

I have the desire, ability, and even the courage to explore your ideas, but they are so broken, fragmented and poorly put together, that one cannot advance past the first hurdle.

I relay my experiences not my ideas, that is where your failure lies.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Uhm. You're just taking what I'm saying and claiming I'm saying the exact opposite of what I'm actually saying. I don't what kind of debate technique of yours that is.

I speak as if there is separation because the situation isn't black and white. For you it's either or, you neglect the possibility that it could be both. A false dilemma.

More handwaving and nonsense.

Hilarity only to the black and white thinker that cannot conceive of greater complexities than a strict either or situation.

So, our soul or mind being a little physical pilot inside of our body is not a misrepresentation? Come on. It's a childish caricature and you're very well aware of that. You're not even being honest with yourself.

I can show myself, that is the difference between the two of us. I'm willing to put in the work and try the techniques and teachings. You stand on the other side pontificating about something you really know nothing about. You've read stuff but you've never experienced. You're not even willing to try and yet you've certainly made your mind up. It's the very definition of condemnation without investigation. It's not scientific, it's not rational, it's stubborn, lazy and arrogant. Not to mention it's intellectually dishonest of you.

a reply to: TheLaughingGod

But the problem I'm having with this:

You've read stuff but you've never experienced.

is the simple question:
isn't everything you "experience" in your imagination, like a book you write to yourself?
How can you really experience something in your imagination?
That's truly intellectually dishonest if you ask me. Fiction is fiction it doesn't matter if i wrote it or someone else did it.
And the conscience apparently has customised symbols it uses to express it's needs, so how can your "experience" be more than fiction as soon as your aware mind touches it, i.E. translates the "imagination" into words? Would not writing about it be the first and possibly only real experience from your imagination? "That is of course if you don't use it for some other kind of art, painting, sculptures, music, maths, inventing stuff, etc.

a reply to: bb23108

Hello bb23108

This absolutely does not require going within, trying to escape from bodily existence, etc. It simply is a matter of staying in place in the conscious "position" that is inherent in our simply being.

I did an experiment last night, to ascertain where in my body the ego lies. Epicurus taught that the soul is diffuse throughout the body, yet concentrated in the chest. But I was wondering about the Ego.

With my eyes open, I seem to be behind my eyes. With my eyes closed, I seem to be in my eyes. And now while I'm thinking about what to write, and writing, I seem to be diffused all about within my head, frontal lobe and top of the brain.

Just an experiential experiment. Other people could try it too.

Ah well... so you don't appreciate my little internal fantasies. Doesn't matter. They are mine. You cannot touch them, manipulate them, change them, correct them, control them.

They influence my choices of act, and so far, in ways that are not hurtful or destructive to anyone else, but that are of great benefit to my emotional well being. So, I'll let them be. I'll even talk about them from time to time.

I take seriously the real world and my physical senses, so I don't see the harm in retreating sometimes for emotional re-energizing.

a reply to: TheLaughingGod

So, our soul or mind being a little physical pilot inside of our body is not a misrepresentation? Come on. It's a childish caricature and you're very well aware of that. You're not even being honest with yourself.

A misrepresentation of what? Let me guess... a soul? My argument is the soul is a childish misrepresentation of something else. I'll wait for you to catch up.

I can show myself, that is the difference between the two of us. I'm willing to put in the work and try the techniques and teachings. You stand on the other side pontificating about something you really know nothing about. You've read stuff but you've never experienced. You're not even willing to try and yet you've certainly made your mind up. It's the very definition of condemnation without investigation. It's not scientific, it's not rational, it's stubborn, lazy and arrogant. Not to mention it's intellectually dishonest of you.

What's intellectually dishonest is you speaking for my experiences. I've read stuff? I've never experienced? I'm not willing to try? This projection, which I can only guess is born in the dank recesses of your imagination (perhaps like everything else, the only thing you've really experienced), since I am fairly certain you've never crossed my path before in your life, is more telling of you than it is of me. It becomes apparent that you've read stuff, you've never experienced, and you're not even willing to try.

a reply to: InTheLight

I relay my experiences not my ideas, that is where your failure lies.

You live your experiences; you don't relay them. That's where your failure lies.

a reply to: pthena

You have no idea what kind of relationship to fear I have. I embrace it fully and extinguish it vigorously. I don't have any fears resembling the ones you describe. I encourage non physical intruders because I drink the fear and I savour it, my goal is scaring the demons..I love feeling their surprised reaction when their intimidation attempts are met with mental laughter. I only want the attacks to get worse, the excitement is intoxicating and addictive. You have no idea where I'm coming from on this, but I do love red roses and so does my partner.

I'm very content with this situation and it's only going to keep getting better.

My mood is described as aloof only because my avatar is a high elf and high elves are aloof and I'm just consistent like that. Arrogant would also be a fitting description and that I am too.