Glaciers Holding Back Sea-Level Rise Are Showing Signs of Collapse

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: Grimpachi
I used a word you didn't approve of. I use the general term sheet instead of the required term shelf.

Lol – so you use the wrong terminology, therefore it’s other people’s fault for not understanding?

Anyway, a calving ice shelf does not have much direct effect on sea level rise (there is still a small displacement due to the difference in fresh versus salt water density).

However, the indirect effect is to allow more land based glacial flow into the sea and displace more water. The levee breaks, which is exactly what the OP is very clearly about.

Leave it to a climate skeptic though to completely derail a very simple concept with their own confusion, and then blame everybody else for the subsequent denial.

a reply to: Grimpachi

I can only assume you did not read my definition?


I've seen a video of the largest piece of ice ever filmed calving off a glacier. It was nowhere near the size of Jamaica.






Yes I definitely know the difference but it seems you do not know the difference between a glacier and a ice shelf.

a reply to: mc_squared

I love how desperate you people have become on the subject. Yes I used the wrong terminology and admitted to it. Somehow you claim I tried to make it someone else's fault? Lol

And of course it does not have the effect on sea level rise the ice shelf was already floating in the water.

a reply to: Greathouse

Puh-leeeze. You claimed you used a word Grimpachi "did not approve of". Who's the desperate one?

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: Greathouse

Seems even when faced with definitions you still stubbornly hold your opinion. There is no hope for you then.

If you think that can break off a glacier and fall in the ocean I have a bridge to sell you.

Then I guess you will claim both videos are CGI.

As the ice sheet is formed it is slowly pushed out towards the oceans. It ice flow.

Try to educate yourself

Here's the definition of a ice shelf.

ice shelf
noun
noun: ice shelf; plural noun: ice shelves
a floating sheet of ice permanently attached to a landmass.

Where do you think the ice shelf comes from? It was part of the ice sheet that was pushed away it was in fact part of the glacier.

An ice shelf is a thick floating platform of ice that forms where a glacier or ice sheet flows down to a coastline and onto the ocean surface. Ice shelves are only found in Antarctica, Greenland and Canada.

HOW DO ICE SHELVES FORM?

Ice from enormous ice sheets slowly oozes into the sea through glaciers and ice streams. If the ocean is cold enough, that newly arrived ice doesn't melt right away. Instead it may float on the surface and grow larger as glacial ice behind it continues to flow into the sea. Along protected coastlines, the resulting ice shelves can survive for thousands of years, bolstered by the rock of peninsulas and islands. Ice shelves grow when they gain ice from land, and occasionally shrink when icebergs calve off their edges. This give and take helps them maintain a dynamic stability.

Quick Facts on Ice Shelves

At least you didn't deny the ice shelf that I spoke of was already floating in the water.

Anyway another climate thread on ATS quickly derailed due to denier ignorance.

Congrats guys, beautiful job as always *slow clap*

a reply to: mc_squared

I'm satisfied, your argument was so weak you resorted to a ad-hom attack.

originally posted by: mc_squared
Anyway another climate thread on ATS quickly derailed due to denier ignorance.

Congrats guys, beautiful job as always *slow clap*

No problem, I did the same thing back in the 80s when all the nuts thought there was an Ice Age coming. It wasn't on the Internet I did it face-to-face.

a reply to: Greathouse

As it has been pointed out you screwed up and now blame me.

Anyway, I addressed your edit after posting, but here is a summary. The ice shelf was the ice sheet that had migrated from the land over the water it is called an ice flow. An ice shelf is the floating extension of the ice sheets that have formed on land from thousands or millions of years of snowfall. It is indeed part of the glacier.

I've seen a video of the largest piece of ice ever filmed calving off a glacier. It was nowhere near the size of Jamaica.

Do you understand that there is not a team of people there 24/7 365 days a year? That is what was caught on film at that time. There have been bigger calving evidenced by satellite imagery and it is an ongoing process.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: Greathouse

As it has been pointed out you screwed up and now blame me.

Careful there Grim - apparently pointing out how someone screwed up is an "ad hominem" now (just like pointing out when they're being taken for a ride by oil company propaganda).

a reply to: Grimpachi

First of all I admited my mistake in terminology.


And Yep, glaciers contribute to the formation of ice shelves. But that has been going on for eons. I like the way you keep bobbing and weaving in your attempts to confront my original post.

It shows perseverance . But if you have noticed I have agreed with some of your post because I am man enough to do that. Most people that base an argument on pardon the pun "thin ice". Doggedly stick to their opinion because they fear that to give a 1 inch in their opinion would collapse their fragile presumptions.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: lostbook

Ocean warming and increased atmospheric Co2 is cyclically caused by increase in undersea volcanic activity. It is part of Earth's natural cycle. There isn't anything humanity can do about that, it is nature.

It only took 6 minutes after the OP for someone to post the usual Anti AGW rhetoric. There are no links to data to back up this claim, no science, yet the poster writes this as if it were the 'absolute truth'.

Why is it so difficult to get the average person to understand that the CO2 increase that has happened during the industrial revolution that is still occurring is a direct result from our species burning fossil fuels and releasing CO2 in the atmosphere? The evidence that supports this 'theory' is overwhelming.

The amount of CO2 that humans release on an annual basis dwarfs the yearly CO2 output from volcanoes, yet there are still many who will continue to parrot this myth.

Also note how that response received more stars than the OP.

a reply to: jrod

When I first joined ATS I was a hardcore conspiracy theorist, one who believed the world was shrewdly manipulated by elitists exploiting dumb and apathetic people to suit their personal agendas.

Thanks to ATS I now believe this more than ever, but not so much from all the wonderful things I've learned here (there have been many) - but from all the dumb, apathetic, and very clearly manipulated comments I see posted on here everyday. Climate threads are far and away the best example.

a reply to: Greathouse

I admire that you admit using the wrong terminology however you still think you are correct. When the ice shelf breaks off it does add to sea level because when it breaks off the Archimedes principle does kick into action. As evidenced in the videos presented. The ice shelf is part of the glacier.

The ice shelf is not the same as sea ice which is what you probably have been referring too. Sea ice does not displace water and that is what is growing in the antarctic. Glaciers are retreating ice shelves are collapsing those are the things which affect sea level. Ice shelves are not formed over the water they form over land and referred to as the ice sheet once they migrate over water they are called ice shelves and are still part of the glacier. When they break off the majority of them submerge into the water and therefore displace the water.

I have not bobed nor weaved, but I have been explaining to you these things so you can better understand because you definitely do not understand as evidenced by your posts. I have given you several links and I suggest you read them because they hold the information you seem to lack.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Nope

Archimedes' principle indicates that the upward buoyant force that is exerted on a body immersed in a fluid, whether fully or partially submerged, is equal to the weight of the fluid that the body displaces. Archimedes' principle is a law of physics fundamental to fluid mechanics. Archimedes of Syracuse[1] formulated this principle, which bears his name.

The ice shelf by its presence in the water is partially submerged therefore Archimedes principal has already kicked in. Now if you would like to rewrite Archimedes law we can continue this discussion.

a reply to: Greathouse

Here's a diagram that might help you better understand the situation:



You keep trying to argue steps 1-3 are not a big deal, but in doing so completely ignoring step 4.

a reply to: Greathouse

The ice shelves are not simply floating over the water. the majority of them are being held above water because they are attached to the ice sheet so when they break off the mass falls into the water and therefore displaces it.

Below is a pic which hopefully will aid in explaining. If you have further questions then please ask.

a reply to: mc_squared

Then you incorrectly deduced what I was saying. A ice shelf as has been established is already floating on water. The one I spoke of in my post was the size of the island of Jamaica. It may be partially attached to the land at one point but still Archimedes principle is in Effect because part of it is already floating on the water.




You could take a bathtub for an example and fill it to the brim. Then place 1000 pound weight partially in the water partially supported on the edge of the tub. The part in the water would still displace water according to its weight. The part on land will have no effect on the water. But Archimedes principle will be in effect.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

So volcanoes which account for a fraction of the CO2 output that humans do are causing greenhouse warming?

a reply to: Greathouse

An ice shelf floating on water is sea ice and no longer an ice shelf.

I really think you are missing this concept here. I think you are trying to claim that Ice shelves melting will not result in a sea level rise, when you make it seem like you do not know the difference between sea ice and an ice shelf or at least that ice shelves hold back land ice.

But who knows, maybe you are just arguing in circles to keep this thread from having a productive discussion.