Senate kills Bill On NSA Domestic Surveillance Reform

On the surface this news seems all well and good and a victory for (we the people); but I keep getting the feeling that it is just (smoke and mirrors)...the spying on us will continue; it will just be more hidden under layers and layers of secrecy.

a reply to: caladonea

Be that as it may. If that occurs hopefully this current decision stands and they will have no law to hide behind. If it is discovered they are doing as you predict at least we should be able to prosecute them.

If they are going to continue with the illegal spying and whatnot regardless, and were to begin with, why did they need the Patriot Act at all? Seems pointless, just should have kept everything hush hush.

Cautiously optimistic of Rand Paul simply because I could see him being kind of like JFK in the regards "THEY" think he is "politically pretty" enough to get the people but "THEY" are probably cautiously optimistic in regards to being able to control him.

JFK didn't get the job by being overtly against TPTB wishes but he did lose it when he started to get all free spirited and OUT of CONTROL.

originally posted by: Gully
If they are going to continue with the illegal spying and whatnot regardless, and were to begin with, why did they need the Patriot Act at all? Seems pointless, just should have kept everything hush hush.

The patriot act has more to it then "just spying " it allows all kinds of nasty stuff that will strip your rights in a heart beat . I sugest reading it when you have the chance .

Does anybody really think the NSA is going to just stop? Or any other agency is going to just stop?

I don't.

originally posted by: Kapusta

originally posted by: Gully
If they are going to continue with the illegal spying and whatnot regardless, and were to begin with, why did they need the Patriot Act at all? Seems pointless, just should have kept everything hush hush.

The patriot act has more to it then "just spying " it allows all kinds of nasty stuff that will strip your rights in a heart beat . I sugest reading it when you have the chance .

Well, yeah. But I've seen comments from people saying they were spying before and will spy after regardless. So why did they even have these provisions in the Patriot Act anyhow?

originally posted by: Shamrock6
Does anybody really think the NSA is going to just stop? Or any other agency is going to just stop?

I don't.

Who can trust anything this damn government says anymore, either side?

a reply to: Gully

A) because it made it legal

B) because it made people think the government was doing something after 9/11

The yes man RINO Mitch McConnell tried his best by babbling and fear mongering until he looked like he was going to croak right there. There is not a bigger puppet in D.C other that carpet bagger in an empty suit Lindsey Graham. ~$heopleNation

originally posted by: Gully

originally posted by: Kapusta

originally posted by: Gully
If they are going to continue with the illegal spying and whatnot regardless, and were to begin with, why did they need the Patriot Act at all? Seems pointless, just should have kept everything hush hush.

The patriot act has more to it then "just spying " it allows all kinds of nasty stuff that will strip your rights in a heart beat . I sugest reading it when you have the chance .

Well, yeah. But I've seen comments from people saying they were spying before and will spy after regardless. So why did they even have these provisions in the Patriot Act anyhow?

Yes, they were able to spy under the patriot act . killing this bill will kill the patriot act .

If we keep this bill from passing then essentially we can hold them accountable for spying now .

Many factors involved here . if you listen to the 10 hour filibuster you will understand more.

Kap

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Hi GCHQ.

Don't they just split the in-coming beams through fibre-optics cables into a mirrored duplicate from all transmissions i.e. satellite, phone etc? Seems easy enough to do - the sifting seems more cumbersome. I am not sure what it is used for, because most people are texting "Did you watch Dancing with the Stars last nite"? and general useless banter. But maybe there is a larger purpose...

originally posted by: SyxPak
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

How ya doin Bud? Hope You are well.

Sucks that you guys got the shaft on that bill.
The spying crap is not right..... But will happen illegally anyway,
because they can do it...

Remember Bro, "It's just a Ride..." Syx...

They may spy, but it severely limits how they can use that information. They can't spy on you and then take you to court on that info because part of your defense can involve illegally obtained information. On top of that, what I've learned is the first step to making something not happen is to remove it's legality. The second step (which is easy to justify once it's illegal) is to defund it.

Right now I would vote for Sanders, Warren, Paul, or a couple others. If Rand Paul is successful here he goes up on my list a bit more.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
It's a bit scary to be honest how many Americans don't really give a darn about these topics.

I can tell you why right now. To most people it is magic. They don't have the understanding of what's going on and all the various factors at play. This shouldn't really surprise you, we use modern day magic every day. Turning on the car, turning on the tv, remotely unlocking the car, opening the garage door, smart appliances, anything on your computer. Most people have no idea how any of this stuff works, or why it works, and there aren't even repairmen to teach it anymore. I could probably write a book on the place of technology in our lives.

If you don't understand the world around you, how can you understand what is going on? Unlike others that go on these rants I have an answer too. It's not that people are any dumber today but rather that knowledge has become more specialized. If you wanted to be a master at transportation in the 1900's you needed to know the parts of a bicycle and how to repair them. Maybe the mechanics of carriages too. Fast forward 100 years and the cars are run by computers, using software you can't access, written by computer programmers, and put together by special tools. The depth of knowledge is much higher now there's far more to learn. In the past we were all sort of generalists, and the academics doing such became polymaths. Today however people are taught the beginnings of a career, and that's what they follow. There are few polymaths in the world today (I am one of them), but with most of the world becoming focused on one specific job or body of knowledge making sense of the world today just isn't possible.

originally posted by: SheopleNation
The yes man RINO Mitch McConnell tried his best by babbling and fear mongering until he looked like he was going to croak right there. There is not a bigger puppet in D.C other that carpet bagger in an empty suit Lindsey Graham. ~$heopleNation

What McConnell does up front is just a distraction. The mans reputation (and why he got the job) is that he's a back channel deal maker, and he's not afraid to work with anyone regardless of party if they'll support his deal. I promise you that between now and the next vote he will have a large group on his side to pass it. Unless that is, someone can give him a better reason to not pass it, the man does love to deal and isn't tied a single position. Both sides have a lot to offer that could make him change his mind (like who runs in which districts).

originally posted by: corsair00
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Hi GCHQ.

Don't they just split the in-coming beams through fibre-optics cables into a mirrored duplicate from all transmissions i.e. satellite, phone etc? Seems easy enough to do - the sifting seems more cumbersome. I am not sure what it is used for, because most people are texting "Did you watch Dancing with the Stars last nite"? and general useless banter. But maybe there is a larger purpose...

LoL true!

While I do take your stance that they would not enjoy sifting through all the data...

I think they use key words and phrases for the most part.

a reply to: Kapusta

Seriously what do we even do anymore?

They get caught red handed like so many other times and nothing will happen.

You thin Rand would even survive long enough to make a difference? I think he would last a week tops.

I become more worried about my children's future everyday.

a reply to: Aazadan

Yep you're right I agree, Obviously he does his swindling well or he would not have been around as long as he has. I think we need term limits yesterday. Too easy to buy these guys off. ~$heopleNation

End result...the "public" politicians will decide which is in their best interest. Make a law that stops the NSA or make one that allows it to continue with or without limitations. But in the end it will only be words on paper.

The spying, data collection, etc. will continue...law or no law. It will be funded with your dollars and under the partial-lie that this is to keep the country safe. That isn't its main purpose. It is for the purpose of control, blackmail and power. Give me the uncleaned computer of a few thousand people and I can stop working as they send me checks or do me favors to avoid, or pressured by what I learn about them.

Give me control of a large company's computer network and I will rise to the position of CEO. Give the government access to every single thing you do, say, type, post, view, etc...I will become the KING with the power to do anything I want, without real objection and with the ability to change anyone's mind. I can put child porn on your computer and call the police. I can expose your affair, I can send the IRS about those tax records you are hiding, I can make you as perfect or as evil as I choose.

That is the purpose of the NSA and whatever other groups are using this data. IRS...absolutely. Police...of course. The list probably goes on forever, but understand this. Knowledge is power. Ultimate knowledge is ultimate power and power corrupts. These are facts! And no human with any ego could NOT use this information for personal benefit.

Watch and learn.

originally posted by: SheopleNation
a reply to: Aazadan

Yep you're right I agree, Obviously he does his swindling well or he would not have been around as long as he has. I think we need term limits yesterday. Too easy to buy these guys off. ~$heopleNation

I'm not a big fan of McConnell but I think both the House and Senate need a few people like him that are completely pragmatic and able to put together back channel deals that allow both sides to compromise without it reflecting poorly on them in public. For all his policies I don't agree with, he's still the type of guy that will work with both Republicans and Democrats and avoid partisan gridlock.