Looks like Ireland's referendum on gay marriage is a Yes.

originally posted by: MRuss
a reply to: Annee

If you are an ATS'er, then you'll be familiar with the following ideas:

The media is constantly harping on issues to distract us from what is really going on in the world. The gay topic, among others, is completely overdone.

I'm sorry, but I'm bored to death with the gay issue. It's been the subject of our national conversation for years and years and years.

Enough already!

Maybe, just maybe if we didn't have to fight tooth and nail for equal rights and protection against discrimination from the woefully ignorant, you wouldn't hear so much about the issue. When you say you are sick of hearing about it what it sounds like you're saying is "how dare they pipe up and ask to be treated equally". To be honest I'm sick of hearing about this gay marriage issue but for a completely different reason then you. I'm sick of hearing about it because its 2015 and ignorant people are still using their stone age beliefs as a veil to deny rights to other people. I'm sick of hearing about it because it shouldn't have to be an issue at all. The right to marry the person you want should be a given and should never have to be fought for.

Every time I see Christians complain about this all I hear is "wah wah wah, we are so persecuted because we are not allowed to discriminate against groups we don't like". The reason this is all being forced upon them is because they can't play nicely with others. They feel the need to keep trying to interfere with everyone else lives, trying to effect biblically leaning laws in a country which everyone would have to live by. I believe you reap what you sow. After hundreds of years of religions interfering and meddling people have had enough. Most religions have the potential for such good its just a shame some of it adherents have to be legislated into doing the descent thing.

This is a step in the right direction and I more then a little surprised Ireland actually voted this through. Surprised but incredibly proud. Marriage is not owned by the religious and it never was. Marriage has constantly been redefined through out history, the fact you can get divorced proves that.

One would think, those who support marriage, would support ALL marriages.

What is marriage? It's when 2 people decide to make a commitment to each other. To join households as one, creating a family (with or without children).

What does this do? It creates stability in a community. Families have a tendency to put down roots and use the services of their local community contributing to its economic growth.

What gender those families are is not relevant ---- as it makes no difference.

originally posted by: Annee
One would think, those who support marriage, would support ALL marriages.

What is marriage? It's when 2 people decide to make a commitment to each other. To join households as one, creating a family (with or without children).

What does this do? It creates stability in a community. Families have a tendency to put down roots and use the services of their local community contributing to its economic growth.

What gender those families are is not relevant ---- as it makes no difference.

Repeating that doesn't make it true.

What the homosexuals should be pushing for, is the state being removed from marriage. It should not be regulated. If I want to marry a goat or a 15 year old, why not? I mean, the goat can't consent, but the goat can't not consent either. As for the 15 year old, some 15 year olds are very mature for their age. It's discriminatory to say they can't get married based on something as arbitrary as age. and hey, I love that goat and that 15 year old. Who are you to stand in the way of love? How does it affect you and your marriage!?

originally posted by: Dfairlite

originally posted by: Annee
One would think, those who support marriage, would support ALL marriages.

What is marriage? It's when 2 people decide to make a commitment to each other. To join households as one, creating a family (with or without children).

What does this do? It creates stability in a community. Families have a tendency to put down roots and use the services of their local community contributing to its economic growth.

What gender those families are is not relevant ---- as it makes no difference.

Repeating that doesn't make it true.

What the homosexuals should be pushing for, is the state being removed from marriage. It should not be regulated. If I want to marry a goat or a 15 year old, why not? I mean, the goat can't consent, but the goat can't not consent either. As for the 15 year old, some 15 year olds are very mature for their age. It's discriminatory to say they can't get married based on something as arbitrary as age. and hey, I love that goat and that 15 year old. Who are you to stand in the way of love? How does it affect you!?

YOU are seriously telling homosexuals what they SHOULD do?

Then you include an animal and underage child.

Pretty sick.

a reply to: Dfairlite

Are you really attempting to equate two consenting adults to a animal and an underage teenager?.
Really?.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
And how many of those people, who get married not planning on having kids, end up having them? How many people who believed (or were told) they were infertile end up getting pregnant?

More than zero, no doubt, but certainly THEY are the exception to people who don't wish to or lack the ability to breed. So, I think you're the one making rules based on the few exceptions.

Inherently a man and woman relationship does not lack the ability nor the desire.

That's usually true, but extrinsically, many do. So, what? What conclusion are you drawing from that? We can say that inherently, people like dogs. That doesn't mean everyone should like dogs, society only supports those that like dogs, or that not having a dog is or should be illegal.

A homosexual relationship is unable to procreate, inherently. It's just a fact.

THAT'S your argument? You're just repeating what you've already stated AND what everyone knows... Two men can't have kids together. I thought you were going to tell me why that matters or at least something new. I've known that since I was 4 years old. You're right. It's a fact. So, again, what conclusion are you drawing from that? They can't have kids so they shouldn't be permitted to marry, EVEN THOUGH marriage does not have a prerequisite of breeding?

Does that make logical sense? It sounds more like an emotional argument.

You have pledged yourself to your spouse, are in a loving relationship with her, and as far as passerby's are concerned you may very well have children now or in the future (I have no clue how old you are so I'm covering my bases there).

Nope. Aside from magic, between us, we do not have the physical capability to have kids. Wait, are you saying that older people who lack the ability to bear children ALSO shouldn't be allowed to marry? Is that your position?

And since when do "passersby" have ANYTHING to do with this? Your argument gets more convoluted by the paragraph.

I'll just give one example. Do hormones effect your behavior and mental state? Of course. And how much estrogen is there in a male-male marriage? male-male and female-female is not as diverse as male-female.

So, hormones determine diversity? It's as simple as that? What about personality, interests, hobbies, likes, dislikes, history, parents, family life, genes, psychological traits, character, ethnicity, physical structure, experiences, environment, culture, societal influences and aptitude? Do hormones take precedence over all of those? (besides, men produce some estrogen and women produce some testosterone - Source)

I do dislike when things that are not equal are treated as equal. And I will continue to dislike it.

So, you dislike it when gay people are treated equally to straight people? That's cool. You're allowed to have that opinion. But your argument is sorely lacking.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Lol the arguments against are getting more bizarre and amusing by the hour.
Some strange folk in this world.

originally posted by: Dfairlite

originally posted by: Annee
One would think, those who support marriage, would support ALL marriages.

What is marriage? It's when 2 people decide to make a commitment to each other. To join households as one, creating a family (with or without children).

What does this do? It creates stability in a community. Families have a tendency to put down roots and use the services of their local community contributing to its economic growth.

What gender those families are is not relevant ---- as it makes no difference.

Repeating that doesn't make it true.

Actually it is factually true.

There is no need to repeat fact.

Fact supercedes unfounded ideologies.

originally posted by: Dfairlite

Gay marriage affects everyone in a society. It's a stamp of approval on a deviant behavior that has absolutely zero positives for society as a whole.

Because two people loving each other and wanting to pledge that love to each other in parity with the rest of the world is bad, eh?

I would suggest that "deviant behaviour" is denying people the right to do that, or arguing against their right to do it.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

More than zero, no doubt, but certainly THEY are the exception to people who don't wish to or lack the ability to breed. So, I think you're the one making rules based on the few exceptions.

How many people are married, and of them how many have children in their lifetimes? That's the rule. The exception is people like yourself.

That's usually true, but extrinsically, many do. So, what? What conclusion are you drawing from that?

I guess we need to go back to whether the state should even regulate marriage at all. Should they? If so, based on what interests?

They can't have kids so they shouldn't be permitted to marry, EVEN THOUGH marriage does not have a prerequisite of breeding?

Yes, society has a vested interest in having future generations. Homosexuals cannot have children with one another. Children growing up seeing that type of relationship as being equal to a real marriage will degrade their perception of marriage and its purpose. Just like divorce warps their perception of marriage.

And since when do "passersby" have ANYTHING to do with this? Your argument gets more convoluted by the paragraph.

Society has an interest in promoting marriage, family, and children.

Wait, are you saying that older people who lack the ability to bear children ALSO shouldn't be allowed to marry? Is that your position?

Not at all, not sure how you got that. I am saying that a man-woman marriage sets an example/ideal to everyone else in society regardless of whether they choose to have children or not. No one acts in a vacuum.

So, hormones determine diversity? It's as simple as that?

No, where did I say that? But that's a predictable response. That type of response is the exact reason I put in there that I was only going to give one example. But either way, there is no denying that a public school is more diverse than an all boys or all girls school.

So, you dislike it when gay people are treated equally to straight people?

Not at all, but good job trying to put words into my mouth. Last I checked a gay person can do anything a straight person can do. They can go to a baseball game, just the same. They can go to school, just the same. They can work, just the same. They can marry the opposite gender, just the same. This has never been an equality issue.

But your argument is sorely lacking.

That's odd, Most of your rebuttals required you to attribute things to me which i did not say in order to work. Seems like it's not my argument that is lacking.

originally posted by: neformore

originally posted by: Dfairlite

Gay marriage affects everyone in a society. It's a stamp of approval on a deviant behavior that has absolutely zero positives for society as a whole.

Because two people loving each other and wanting to pledge that love to each other in parity with the rest of the world is bad, eh?

I would suggest that "deviant behaviour" is denying people the right to do that, or arguing against their right to do it.

By all means, pledge away. Doesn't make that pledge marriage. If you and another pledge yourselves to only run track with one another, does that make you married?

ETA: in "the rest of the world" cohabitation outside of marriage is much more common than in the US. So it's not really pledging that love in parity with the rest of the world, it's more like pledging that love like the typical man and woman in the US do.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Dfairlite

originally posted by: Annee
One would think, those who support marriage, would support ALL marriages.

What is marriage? It's when 2 people decide to make a commitment to each other. To join households as one, creating a family (with or without children).

What does this do? It creates stability in a community. Families have a tendency to put down roots and use the services of their local community contributing to its economic growth.

What gender those families are is not relevant ---- as it makes no difference.

Repeating that doesn't make it true.

Actually it is factually true.

There is no need to repeat fact.

Fact supercedes unfounded ideologies.

Do you really mean unfounded? Coming from the person defending a tradition that has no history of success? At best it's a neutral history, but very possibly a negative history. And you're calling real marriage an unfounded ideology!???? LOLOLOLOLOLMFAO

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Dfairlite

Are you really attempting to equate two consenting adults to a animal and an underage teenager?.
Really?.

Can you please explain the difference? I mean, we aren't able to restrict marriage based on something as fundamental as gender, yet you have a problem with age or with species? Why should we restrict one and not the other? Why do you think you're so special just because you love a person who has aged a couple more years? Why is it so special that you fell in love with another person. I've been with this goat for 10 years! Bigot.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Dfairlite

originally posted by: Annee
One would think, those who support marriage, would support ALL marriages.

What is marriage? It's when 2 people decide to make a commitment to each other. To join households as one, creating a family (with or without children).

What does this do? It creates stability in a community. Families have a tendency to put down roots and use the services of their local community contributing to its economic growth.

What gender those families are is not relevant ---- as it makes no difference.

Repeating that doesn't make it true.

What the homosexuals should be pushing for, is the state being removed from marriage. It should not be regulated. If I want to marry a goat or a 15 year old, why not? I mean, the goat can't consent, but the goat can't not consent either. As for the 15 year old, some 15 year olds are very mature for their age. It's discriminatory to say they can't get married based on something as arbitrary as age. and hey, I love that goat and that 15 year old. Who are you to stand in the way of love? How does it affect you!?

YOU are seriously telling homosexuals what they SHOULD do?

Then you include an animal and underage child.

Pretty sick.

So what you're saying is that you want to be part of the club but you want others excluded?

originally posted by: Dfairlite

originally posted by: Annee
One would think, those who support marriage, would support ALL marriages.

What is marriage? It's when 2 people decide to make a commitment to each other. To join households as one, creating a family (with or without children).

What does this do? It creates stability in a community. Families have a tendency to put down roots and use the services of their local community contributing to its economic growth.

What gender those families are is not relevant ---- as it makes no difference.

Repeating that doesn't make it true.

What the homosexuals should be pushing for, is the state being removed from marriage. It should not be regulated. If I want to marry a goat or a 15 year old, why not? I mean, the goat can't consent, but the goat can't not consent either. As for the 15 year old, some 15 year olds are very mature for their age. It's discriminatory to say they can't get married based on something as arbitrary as age. and hey, I love that goat and that 15 year old. Who are you to stand in the way of love? How does it affect you and your marriage!?

which is fine sentiment, unfortunately people (especially religious) just won't play nicely together. If we lived in a perfect world where everyone treat each other as equal and everyone was automatically handed the same rights then I would absolutely agree with less government legislation. Unfortunately, we do not and will probably never live in that perfect world. The government are doing the right things enshrining gay marriage into law. Its the morally right thing to do, everyone deserves the chance at marrying the one the are committed too and putting down roots. What is it with anti-gay marriage people bringing up sex with animals? Enough already, it says more about the people bringing bestiality into then it does about about the 2 same sex couple that wants to get married.

Its always the same, first animals will get mentioned then pedophiles. Gay people are fighting the right battle, the right to enjoy something that hetrosexual people have nkt only enjoyed but abused for yearsm

originally posted by: Dfairlite

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Dfairlite

originally posted by: Annee
One would think, those who support marriage, would support ALL marriages.

What is marriage? It's when 2 people decide to make a commitment to each other. To join households as one, creating a family (with or without children).

What does this do? It creates stability in a community. Families have a tendency to put down roots and use the services of their local community contributing to its economic growth.

What gender those families are is not relevant ---- as it makes no difference.

Repeating that doesn't make it true.

What the homosexuals should be pushing for, is the state being removed from marriage. It should not be regulated. If I want to marry a goat or a 15 year old, why not? I mean, the goat can't consent, but the goat can't not consent either. As for the 15 year old, some 15 year olds are very mature for their age. It's discriminatory to say they can't get married based on something as arbitrary as age. and hey, I love that goat and that 15 year old. Who are you to stand in the way of love? How does it affect you!?

YOU are seriously telling homosexuals what they SHOULD do?

Then you include an animal and underage child.

Pretty sick.

So what you're saying is that you want to be part of the club but you want others excluded?

Two words CONSENTING ADULTS. That is the difference. Children lr animals can not make an informed descision.

originally posted by: Megatronus

originally posted by: Dfairlite

originally posted by: Annee
One would think, those who support marriage, would support ALL marriages.

What is marriage? It's when 2 people decide to make a commitment to each other. To join households as one, creating a family (with or without children).

What does this do? It creates stability in a community. Families have a tendency to put down roots and use the services of their local community contributing to its economic growth.

What gender those families are is not relevant ---- as it makes no difference.

Repeating that doesn't make it true.

What the homosexuals should be pushing for, is the state being removed from marriage. It should not be regulated. If I want to marry a goat or a 15 year old, why not? I mean, the goat can't consent, but the goat can't not consent either. As for the 15 year old, some 15 year olds are very mature for their age. It's discriminatory to say they can't get married based on something as arbitrary as age. and hey, I love that goat and that 15 year old. Who are you to stand in the way of love? How does it affect you and your marriage!?

which is fine sentiment, unfortunately people (especially religious) just won't play nicely together. If we lived in a perfect world where everyone treat each other as equal and everyone was automatically handed the same rights then I would absolutely agree with less government legislation. Unfortunately, we do not and will probably never live in that perfect world. The government are doing the right things enshrining gay marriage into law. Its the morally right thing to do, everyone deserves the chance at marrying the one the are committed too and putting down roots. What is it with anti-gay marriage people bringing up sex with animals? Enough already, it says more about the people bringing bestiality into then it does about about the 2 same sex couple that wants to get married.

Its always the same, first animals will get mentioned then pedophiles. Gay people are fighting the right battle, the right to enjoy something that hetrosexual people have nkt only enjoyed but abused for yearsm

Don't worry the age of adulthood will be challenged soon by the pedophiles. Not long ago homosexuals were referred to as sodomites. It may take some time, but remember, it was the homosexuals who started it. Beastiality will probably happen first. I mean, people leave fortunes to animals, so why shouldn't they be able to marry them? I just find it funny that those arguing in favor of same sex marriage want limitations. Those limitations are what kept them out of marriage in the first place. Then again, it's not as fun to be a member of a club that everyone is a member of.

a reply to: Megatronus

I can't believe he still hasn't got it yet.
Shall we explain in detail what consenting adults means?.

a reply to: Dfairlite

Sick mind you have there.
If you can't understand the difference.....